How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[marks]

Good day.

Good day to you also! I shall heartily disagree. Israel is and remains the children of Jacob.

We are rather called the children of Abraham. Israel and the gentiles are both branches of the tree that is Abraham.

Much love!

 

[Scott Downey]

which is it "not of works" or "works"?

thks

Ephesians 2 which I posted tells you the truth. It is God's works that save us not ours.

But we are commanded to be careful to do good works, if you do evil works, you deny Him.
Good works show our fruitfulness to God, who has done His work in us, saving us.
And we are told to be fruitful.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in Heaven.

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God, but in their works they deny Him, being abominable and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Titus 2:7
in all things showing thyself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing uncorruptness, seriousness, sincerity,

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - 21st Century King James Version

Charge those who are rich in this world that they be not haughty, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; that they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate, laying up in store for themselves a...

www.biblegateway.com

17 Charge those who are rich in this world that they be not haughty, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

18 that they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate,

19 laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.


KJ21
This is a faithful saying, and these things I enjoin that thou affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Titus 3:14
And let our own also learn to perform good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

 

[JimKnox]

You need to show Scripture

Good day to you also! I shall heartily disagree. Israel is and remains the children of Jacob.

We are rather called the children of Abraham. Israel and the gentiles are both branches of the tree that is Abraham.

Much love!

You need to show some Scripture supporting that conclusion.
You said Israel is...children of Abraham. Ok so far.
Then somehow you claim the Gentiles are but are not children of Abraham?
I think you confused yourself.

 

[Scott Downey]

How many actually walk like this as believers today?

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Peter 2 - 21st Century King James Version

Therefore laying aside all malice and all guile, and hypocrisy and envy and all evil speaking, as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the Word, that ye may grow thereby, if so it be that ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. Coming to Him as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed by...

www.biblegateway.com

Therefore laying aside all malice and all guile, and hypocrisy and envy and all evil speaking,

2 as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the Word, that ye may grow thereby,

3 if so it be that ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

4 Coming to Him as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,

5 ye also as living stones are built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture: “Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious; and he that believeth in Him shall not be confounded.”

7 Unto you therefore who believe, He is precious; but unto those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,”

8 and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense,” even to those who stumble at the Word, being disobedient, unto which also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

10 In times past ye were not a people, but are now the people of God; who had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,

12 having your way of life honest among the Gentiles, that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether it be to the king as supreme,

14 or unto governors as unto those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with welldoing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men”

16 as free, and not using your liberty as a cloak for maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

 

[marks]

I think you confused yourself.

Think what you like, no matter.

You said Israel is...children of Abraham. Ok so far.
Then somehow you claim the Gentiles are but are not children of Abraham?

What?

Try reading it again:

Israel is and remains the children of Jacob.
We are rather called the children of Abraham. Israel and the gentiles are both branches of the tree that is Abraham.

You referenced the chapters where this is taught, I would think you would know this passage.

Romans 11:15-21 EMTV
15) For if their casting away means reconciliation for the world, what will their acceptance be, if not life from the dead?
16) For if the firstfruit is holy, so also the lump; and if the root is holy, so also the branches.
17) But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a partaker of the root and of the fatness of the olive tree,
18) do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19) You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
20) Well said. By unbelief they were broken off, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear.
21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps He may not spare you either.

Both Israel and Gentiles are branches, not the tree itself.

Much love!

 

[JimKnox]

Think what you like, no matter.


What?

Try reading it again:

Israel is and remains the children of Jacob.
We are rather called the children of Abraham. Israel and the gentiles are both branches of the tree that is Abraham.

You referenced the chapters where this is taught, I would think you would know this passage.

Romans 11:15-21 EMTV
15) For if their casting away means reconciliation for the world, what will their acceptance be, if not life from the dead?
16) For if the firstfruit is holy, so also the lump; and if the root is holy, so also the branches.
17) But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a partaker of the root and of the fatness of the olive tree,
18) do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19) You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
20) Well said. By unbelief they were broken off, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear.
21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps He may not spare you either.

Both Israel and Gentiles are branches, not the tree itself.

Much love!

That is complete nonsense.
An olive tree is not a tree without branches.
Go to Google and produce an actual olive tree with no branches that is not dead.
By all accounts a tree is NOT a tree without branches. To claim otherwise is nonsense.

Your conclusion is not what the text says.

It is no wonder that unbelievers say Christians are illogical when there are nincompoops running around making hash out of Sctipture like you are trying here.

 

[marks]

It is no wonder that unbelievers say Christians are illogical when there are nincompoops running around making hash out of Sctipture like you are trying here.

Suddenly ad hominems! That speaks volumes! I guess you haven't heard this before. Something to think about then. But then if you get your doctrine from google . . . what can I say?

This seems like a silly argument to me. Trees have branches, yes, and the Bible identifies those branches as Israel and Gentiles. And as anyone knows, even google, the branch is not the tree.

Nope, you can't use this to blend the people group of Israel with the gentile Christians.

In Christ is Neither Jew Nor Greek. That means Israel is the nation, the children of Jacob, and those in Christ are not identified as either Jew or Gentile, except in a secondary way, as it were, according to flesh, that is, the fact of their birth into a family.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

So, universal salvation is proper doctrine?

StSteven would agree with you, as that is His Gospel.
However Paul The Apostle defines that Satanic gospel as both false and cursed. (as well as the person who teaches it)
Galatians 1:8

 

[JimKnox]

Suddenly ad hominems! That speaks volumes! I guess you haven't heard this before. Something to think about then. But then if you get your doctrine from google . . . what can I say?

This seems like a silly argument to me. Trees have branches, yes, and the Bible identifies those branches as Israel and Gentiles. And as anyone knows, even google, the branch is not the tree.

Nope, you can't use this to blend the people group of Israel with the gentile Christians.

In Christ is Neither Jew Nor Greek. That means Israel is the nation, the children of Jacob, and those in Christ are not identified as either Jew or Gentile, except in a secondary way, as it were, according to flesh, that is, the fact of their birth into a family.

Much love!

The branches, root, trunk, leaves ARE the tree.
By definition a tree is not a tree without branches.
It is nonsense to claim the branches are not the tree.

Suddenly ad hominems! That speaks volumes! I guess you haven't heard this before. Something to think about then. But then if you get your doctrine from google . . . what can I say?

This seems like a silly argument to me. Trees have branches, yes, and the Bible identifies those branches as Israel and Gentiles. And as anyone knows, even google, the branch is not the tree.

Nope, you can't use this to blend the people group of Israel with the gentile Christians.

In Christ is Neither Jew Nor Greek. That means Israel is the nation, the children of Jacob, and those in Christ are not identified as either Jew or Gentile, except in a secondary way, as it were, according to flesh, that is, the fact of their birth into a family.

Much love!

By definition, a tree is not a tree without the totality of its parts. Root, trunk, branches, leaves/fruit.
Remove the branches and all you have is a stump. Not a tree.
A tree is a woody plant with a trunk and a crown of branches. Remove the crown and all you have is a stump.
This is common botany. God used this illustration for people FAMILIAR with farming and husbandry.
Perhaps you have been in a city sitting behind a desk all your life?

The Biblical teaching is clear. Israel is an olive tree. The Gentiles are wild olives by nature. God took the natural branches OFF the cultivated olive tree (Israel) and GRAFTED branches from the wild olive tree INTO the cultivated tree. It is the SAME TREE NOW.

Claiming otherwise is to do violence to Scripture.

Good day.

 

[bdavidc]

You still haven't addressed 1 Cor. 9 where Paul says he fears being "a castaway".
This mirrors the 3rd servant of Matt 25.
Matt 25 shows us what Paul actually feared: being "cast out".
That 3rd servant is a true but disobedient servant. He is not an unbeliever.
Have a good day brother.

I understand what you are saying, but I still do not see 1 Corinthians 9 teaching the same thing as Matthew 25. In 1 Corinthians 9, Paul is talking about running a race, keeping his body under control, and not being disapproved after preaching to others. The whole context is service, discipline, reward, and being useful to the Lord. He says, “So run, that ye may obtain” 1 Corinthians 9:24. That is prize language.

But Matthew 25 ends differently. The third servant is not simply told he lost a reward. Jesus calls him “wicked and slothful” Matthew 25:26. Then He says, “Cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” Matthew 25:30. That is much stronger than losing reward.

A true believer can lose reward. I agree with that. First Corinthians 3:15 says a man’s work can be burned, “but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” But that is not what Matthew 25 says about the third servant. The passage does not say he was saved as by fire. It says he was cast into outer darkness.

Also, calling him a servant does not prove he was born again. Jesus also spoke of an evil servant in Matthew 24 who was given “his portion with the hypocrites” Matthew 24:51. In Matthew 7, people say, “Lord, Lord,” and Jesus says, “I never knew you” Matthew 7:22-23. A profession, position, or outward connection does not equal saving faith.

That is my main point. I am not denying loss of reward. I am saying Matthew 25 is not the passage to prove it. First Corinthians 9 is about Paul being disciplined so he is not disapproved in service. Matthew 25 is about a wicked servant being exposed and cast out. Those are not the same thing.

 

[faithhopecharity]

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 2 - 21st Century King James Version

And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins, wherein in times past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience. Among these also we all had our manner of living...

www.biblegateway.com

And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

2 wherein in times past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.

3 Among these also we all had our manner of living in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love wherewith He loved us,

5 even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ (by grace ye are saved),

6 and hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God—

9 not by works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath beforehand ordained, that we should walk in them.

is salvation grace a one time thing?

thks

I will answer your questions, but we cannot take verses that speak about abiding, fruit, obedience, hope, and future glory, and use them to cancel the plain words of Christ.

Jesus said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. Jesus says the believer has everlasting life now, shall not come into condemnation, and has passed from death unto life.

On John 15, no, I do not believe a truly saved man loses salvation and is later burned in the fire. That would make Jesus contradict Himself in John 6 and John 10. Jesus said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39. He also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28.

So John 15 must be read with those verses, not against them. The fruitless branch is not a saved man who had eternal life and then lost it. It is a branch with outward connection and no fruit, showing no true life. Judas is the clearest example in the same Gospel. He was close to Christ outwardly, but Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” because He knew who would betray Him ~John 13:10-11. John later gives the principle plainly: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

How do we abide in Christ? We continue in Him by faith, His Word, and obedience that flows from real life. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John also says, “Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning” ~1 John 2:24. And when John defines God’s commandment, he does not reduce it to law-keeping as the basis of salvation. He says, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment” ~1 John 3:23.

Obedience matters. Fruit matters. But fruit is evidence of life, not the purchase price of life.

On John 10:10, abundant life does not mean “eternal salvation plus extra eternal salvation.” Eternal life is not measured like that. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The life Christ gives is real life in fellowship with God, and that life has fullness in Christ. But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

On Matthew 7:14, the narrow way leads unto life, but that does not mean the believer does not possess eternal life now. Scripture speaks of salvation in more than one way. We have been saved, we are being kept, and we will be brought into the final fullness of salvation at the resurrection. Peter says believers are “begotten again unto a lively hope” and have an inheritance “reserved in heaven,” while they are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:3-5. That is not insecurity. That is God keeping His own until the end.

On Mark 10:30, when Jesus says “in the world to come eternal life,” He is speaking of the future fullness of what belongs to the believer. That does not erase the present possession of eternal life. John says, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13.

That is present possession, not maybe later if we do enough.

On Matthew 25:46 and Romans 2:7, yes, the righteous enter life eternal, and those who continue in well doing seek glory and immortality. But Romans 2 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that we earn eternal life by works. It shows that God’s judgment is righteous and that a changed life matters. But Romans 3 and 4 make clear that justification is not by works. Works reveal what a man is. They do not purchase eternal life.

On hope, you are treating hope like uncertainty. Biblical hope is not “maybe I will make it.” Biblical hope is confident expectation based on God’s promise. Titus 1:2 says, “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” That hope rests on the promise of God who cannot lie, not on my ability to keep myself saved.

The Holy Spirit does not oppose eternal security. He seals the believer. Paul says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. Again, he says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption” ~Ephesians 4:30.

That is the point. Hope does not fight against security. Hope rests on God’s promise. The Spirit of promise does not make salvation uncertain. He is the earnest, the guarantee, until the day of redemption.

So no, eternal security does not oppose hope. It gives hope its foundation. My hope is not in my grip on Christ. My hope is in Christ’s grip on me.

believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

implies a perpetual belief!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

I will answer your questions, but we cannot take verses that speak about abiding, fruit, obedience, hope, and future glory, and use them to cancel the plain words of Christ.

Jesus said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. Jesus says the believer has everlasting life now, shall not come into condemnation, and has passed from death unto life.

On John 15, no, I do not believe a truly saved man loses salvation and is later burned in the fire. That would make Jesus contradict Himself in John 6 and John 10. Jesus said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39. He also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28.

So John 15 must be read with those verses, not against them. The fruitless branch is not a saved man who had eternal life and then lost it. It is a branch with outward connection and no fruit, showing no true life. Judas is the clearest example in the same Gospel. He was close to Christ outwardly, but Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” because He knew who would betray Him ~John 13:10-11. John later gives the principle plainly: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

How do we abide in Christ? We continue in Him by faith, His Word, and obedience that flows from real life. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John also says, “Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning” ~1 John 2:24. And when John defines God’s commandment, he does not reduce it to law-keeping as the basis of salvation. He says, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment” ~1 John 3:23.

Obedience matters. Fruit matters. But fruit is evidence of life, not the purchase price of life.

On John 10:10, abundant life does not mean “eternal salvation plus extra eternal salvation.” Eternal life is not measured like that. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The life Christ gives is real life in fellowship with God, and that life has fullness in Christ. But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

On Matthew 7:14, the narrow way leads unto life, but that does not mean the believer does not possess eternal life now. Scripture speaks of salvation in more than one way. We have been saved, we are being kept, and we will be brought into the final fullness of salvation at the resurrection. Peter says believers are “begotten again unto a lively hope” and have an inheritance “reserved in heaven,” while they are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:3-5. That is not insecurity. That is God keeping His own until the end.

On Mark 10:30, when Jesus says “in the world to come eternal life,” He is speaking of the future fullness of what belongs to the believer. That does not erase the present possession of eternal life. John says, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13.

That is present possession, not maybe later if we do enough.

On Matthew 25:46 and Romans 2:7, yes, the righteous enter life eternal, and those who continue in well doing seek glory and immortality. But Romans 2 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that we earn eternal life by works. It shows that God’s judgment is righteous and that a changed life matters. But Romans 3 and 4 make clear that justification is not by works. Works reveal what a man is. They do not purchase eternal life.

On hope, you are treating hope like uncertainty. Biblical hope is not “maybe I will make it.” Biblical hope is confident expectation based on God’s promise. Titus 1:2 says, “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” That hope rests on the promise of God who cannot lie, not on my ability to keep myself saved.

The Holy Spirit does not oppose eternal security. He seals the believer. Paul says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. Again, he says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption” ~Ephesians 4:30.

That is the point. Hope does not fight against security. Hope rests on God’s promise. The Spirit of promise does not make salvation uncertain. He is the earnest, the guarantee, until the day of redemption.

So no, eternal security does not oppose hope. It gives hope its foundation. My hope is not in my grip on Christ. My hope is in Christ’s grip on me.

how do you know eternal life is the same as eternal salvation?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

I will answer your questions, but we cannot take verses that speak about abiding, fruit, obedience, hope, and future glory, and use them to cancel the plain words of Christ.

Jesus said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. Jesus says the believer has everlasting life now, shall not come into condemnation, and has passed from death unto life.

On John 15, no, I do not believe a truly saved man loses salvation and is later burned in the fire. That would make Jesus contradict Himself in John 6 and John 10. Jesus said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39. He also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28.

So John 15 must be read with those verses, not against them. The fruitless branch is not a saved man who had eternal life and then lost it. It is a branch with outward connection and no fruit, showing no true life. Judas is the clearest example in the same Gospel. He was close to Christ outwardly, but Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” because He knew who would betray Him ~John 13:10-11. John later gives the principle plainly: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

How do we abide in Christ? We continue in Him by faith, His Word, and obedience that flows from real life. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John also says, “Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning” ~1 John 2:24. And when John defines God’s commandment, he does not reduce it to law-keeping as the basis of salvation. He says, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment” ~1 John 3:23.

Obedience matters. Fruit matters. But fruit is evidence of life, not the purchase price of life.

On John 10:10, abundant life does not mean “eternal salvation plus extra eternal salvation.” Eternal life is not measured like that. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The life Christ gives is real life in fellowship with God, and that life has fullness in Christ. But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

On Matthew 7:14, the narrow way leads unto life, but that does not mean the believer does not possess eternal life now. Scripture speaks of salvation in more than one way. We have been saved, we are being kept, and we will be brought into the final fullness of salvation at the resurrection. Peter says believers are “begotten again unto a lively hope” and have an inheritance “reserved in heaven,” while they are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:3-5. That is not insecurity. That is God keeping His own until the end.

On Mark 10:30, when Jesus says “in the world to come eternal life,” He is speaking of the future fullness of what belongs to the believer. That does not erase the present possession of eternal life. John says, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13.

That is present possession, not maybe later if we do enough.

On Matthew 25:46 and Romans 2:7, yes, the righteous enter life eternal, and those who continue in well doing seek glory and immortality. But Romans 2 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that we earn eternal life by works. It shows that God’s judgment is righteous and that a changed life matters. But Romans 3 and 4 make clear that justification is not by works. Works reveal what a man is. They do not purchase eternal life.

On hope, you are treating hope like uncertainty. Biblical hope is not “maybe I will make it.” Biblical hope is confident expectation based on God’s promise. Titus 1:2 says, “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” That hope rests on the promise of God who cannot lie, not on my ability to keep myself saved.

The Holy Spirit does not oppose eternal security. He seals the believer. Paul says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. Again, he says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption” ~Ephesians 4:30.

That is the point. Hope does not fight against security. Hope rests on God’s promise. The Spirit of promise does not make salvation uncertain. He is the earnest, the guarantee, until the day of redemption.

So no, eternal security does not oppose hope. It gives hope its foundation. My hope is not in my grip on Christ. My hope is in Christ’s grip on me.

how can we hope for something that we already possess?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

I will answer your questions, but we cannot take verses that speak about abiding, fruit, obedience, hope, and future glory, and use them to cancel the plain words of Christ.

Jesus said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. Jesus says the believer has everlasting life now, shall not come into condemnation, and has passed from death unto life.

On John 15, no, I do not believe a truly saved man loses salvation and is later burned in the fire. That would make Jesus contradict Himself in John 6 and John 10. Jesus said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39. He also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28.

So John 15 must be read with those verses, not against them. The fruitless branch is not a saved man who had eternal life and then lost it. It is a branch with outward connection and no fruit, showing no true life. Judas is the clearest example in the same Gospel. He was close to Christ outwardly, but Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” because He knew who would betray Him ~John 13:10-11. John later gives the principle plainly: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

How do we abide in Christ? We continue in Him by faith, His Word, and obedience that flows from real life. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John also says, “Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning” ~1 John 2:24. And when John defines God’s commandment, he does not reduce it to law-keeping as the basis of salvation. He says, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment” ~1 John 3:23.

Obedience matters. Fruit matters. But fruit is evidence of life, not the purchase price of life.

On John 10:10, abundant life does not mean “eternal salvation plus extra eternal salvation.” Eternal life is not measured like that. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The life Christ gives is real life in fellowship with God, and that life has fullness in Christ. But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

On Matthew 7:14, the narrow way leads unto life, but that does not mean the believer does not possess eternal life now. Scripture speaks of salvation in more than one way. We have been saved, we are being kept, and we will be brought into the final fullness of salvation at the resurrection. Peter says believers are “begotten again unto a lively hope” and have an inheritance “reserved in heaven,” while they are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:3-5. That is not insecurity. That is God keeping His own until the end.

On Mark 10:30, when Jesus says “in the world to come eternal life,” He is speaking of the future fullness of what belongs to the believer. That does not erase the present possession of eternal life. John says, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13.

That is present possession, not maybe later if we do enough.

On Matthew 25:46 and Romans 2:7, yes, the righteous enter life eternal, and those who continue in well doing seek glory and immortality. But Romans 2 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that we earn eternal life by works. It shows that God’s judgment is righteous and that a changed life matters. But Romans 3 and 4 make clear that justification is not by works. Works reveal what a man is. They do not purchase eternal life.

On hope, you are treating hope like uncertainty. Biblical hope is not “maybe I will make it.” Biblical hope is confident expectation based on God’s promise. Titus 1:2 says, “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” That hope rests on the promise of God who cannot lie, not on my ability to keep myself saved.

The Holy Spirit does not oppose eternal security. He seals the believer. Paul says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. Again, he says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption” ~Ephesians 4:30.

That is the point. Hope does not fight against security. Hope rests on God’s promise. The Spirit of promise does not make salvation uncertain. He is the earnest, the guarantee, until the day of redemption.

So no, eternal security does not oppose hope. It gives hope its foundation. My hope is not in my grip on Christ. My hope is in Christ’s grip on me.

then why are souls lost who believe and were in christ?

why so many warnings against losing Christ and grace?

thks

 

[Eternally Grateful]

is salvation grace a one time thing?

thks

believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

implies a perpetual belief!

thks

is grace eternal. or temporal?

 

[faithhopecharity]

I will answer your questions, but we cannot take verses that speak about abiding, fruit, obedience, hope, and future glory, and use them to cancel the plain words of Christ.

Jesus said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. Jesus says the believer has everlasting life now, shall not come into condemnation, and has passed from death unto life.

On John 15, no, I do not believe a truly saved man loses salvation and is later burned in the fire. That would make Jesus contradict Himself in John 6 and John 10. Jesus said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39. He also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28.

So John 15 must be read with those verses, not against them. The fruitless branch is not a saved man who had eternal life and then lost it. It is a branch with outward connection and no fruit, showing no true life. Judas is the clearest example in the same Gospel. He was close to Christ outwardly, but Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” because He knew who would betray Him ~John 13:10-11. John later gives the principle plainly: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

How do we abide in Christ? We continue in Him by faith, His Word, and obedience that flows from real life. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John also says, “Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning” ~1 John 2:24. And when John defines God’s commandment, he does not reduce it to law-keeping as the basis of salvation. He says, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment” ~1 John 3:23.

Obedience matters. Fruit matters. But fruit is evidence of life, not the purchase price of life.

On John 10:10, abundant life does not mean “eternal salvation plus extra eternal salvation.” Eternal life is not measured like that. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The life Christ gives is real life in fellowship with God, and that life has fullness in Christ. But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

On Matthew 7:14, the narrow way leads unto life, but that does not mean the believer does not possess eternal life now. Scripture speaks of salvation in more than one way. We have been saved, we are being kept, and we will be brought into the final fullness of salvation at the resurrection. Peter says believers are “begotten again unto a lively hope” and have an inheritance “reserved in heaven,” while they are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:3-5. That is not insecurity. That is God keeping His own until the end.

On Mark 10:30, when Jesus says “in the world to come eternal life,” He is speaking of the future fullness of what belongs to the believer. That does not erase the present possession of eternal life. John says, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13.

That is present possession, not maybe later if we do enough.

On Matthew 25:46 and Romans 2:7, yes, the righteous enter life eternal, and those who continue in well doing seek glory and immortality. But Romans 2 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that we earn eternal life by works. It shows that God’s judgment is righteous and that a changed life matters. But Romans 3 and 4 make clear that justification is not by works. Works reveal what a man is. They do not purchase eternal life.

On hope, you are treating hope like uncertainty. Biblical hope is not “maybe I will make it.” Biblical hope is confident expectation based on God’s promise. Titus 1:2 says, “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” That hope rests on the promise of God who cannot lie, not on my ability to keep myself saved.

The Holy Spirit does not oppose eternal security. He seals the believer. Paul says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. Again, he says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption” ~Ephesians 4:30.

That is the point. Hope does not fight against security. Hope rests on God’s promise. The Spirit of promise does not make salvation uncertain. He is the earnest, the guarantee, until the day of redemption.

So no, eternal security does not oppose hope. It gives hope its foundation. My hope is not in my grip on Christ. My hope is in Christ’s grip on me.

can pass from spiritual death to spiritual life and from spiritual life to spiritual death!

rev 22: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

not concerned with probability but possibility

you cannot have your name taken out unless it is first written there

rom 8:1 no condemnation as long as you walk according to the spirit

gal 5 shall not enter the kingdom including christians

depart from iniquity or depart from Jesus Christ!

sin cause the loss of grace and union with God!

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

2 tim 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ DEPART FROM
INIQUITY.

Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do INIQUITY.

Romans 6:19
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Hebrews 1:9
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.


thks

 

[Wrangler]

how do you know eternal life is the same as eternal salvation?

It's a great point that shows people get carried away with the idea of eternity. If I am drowning at sea and the Coast Guard saves me, they were my salvation. However, it doesn't mean I can't be in peril ever again. I can get hit by a car, fall out of a window, get a horrible disease. No, being saved is not one and done.

Eternal life, on the other hand.

 

[Wrangler]

is grace eternal. or temporal?

Non-sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated. All nouns exist in a non-time dependency.

1. Is an apple eternal or temporal?
2. Is yesterdays forcast eternal or temporal?
3. Is dinner eternal or temporal?

In application, one may receive grace for X but that doesn't apply to Y. If I have a 5-day grace period to pay the mortgage and have used it for the last 5 years, I don't get to add 60 days grace to this months mortgage payment.

 

[faithhopecharity]

I will answer your questions, but we cannot take verses that speak about abiding, fruit, obedience, hope, and future glory, and use them to cancel the plain words of Christ.

Jesus said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. Jesus says the believer has everlasting life now, shall not come into condemnation, and has passed from death unto life.

On John 15, no, I do not believe a truly saved man loses salvation and is later burned in the fire. That would make Jesus contradict Himself in John 6 and John 10. Jesus said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39. He also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28.

So John 15 must be read with those verses, not against them. The fruitless branch is not a saved man who had eternal life and then lost it. It is a branch with outward connection and no fruit, showing no true life. Judas is the clearest example in the same Gospel. He was close to Christ outwardly, but Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” because He knew who would betray Him ~John 13:10-11. John later gives the principle plainly: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

How do we abide in Christ? We continue in Him by faith, His Word, and obedience that flows from real life. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John also says, “Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning” ~1 John 2:24. And when John defines God’s commandment, he does not reduce it to law-keeping as the basis of salvation. He says, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment” ~1 John 3:23.

Obedience matters. Fruit matters. But fruit is evidence of life, not the purchase price of life.

On John 10:10, abundant life does not mean “eternal salvation plus extra eternal salvation.” Eternal life is not measured like that. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The life Christ gives is real life in fellowship with God, and that life has fullness in Christ. But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

On Matthew 7:14, the narrow way leads unto life, but that does not mean the believer does not possess eternal life now. Scripture speaks of salvation in more than one way. We have been saved, we are being kept, and we will be brought into the final fullness of salvation at the resurrection. Peter says believers are “begotten again unto a lively hope” and have an inheritance “reserved in heaven,” while they are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:3-5. That is not insecurity. That is God keeping His own until the end.

On Mark 10:30, when Jesus says “in the world to come eternal life,” He is speaking of the future fullness of what belongs to the believer. That does not erase the present possession of eternal life. John says, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13.

That is present possession, not maybe later if we do enough.

On Matthew 25:46 and Romans 2:7, yes, the righteous enter life eternal, and those who continue in well doing seek glory and immortality. But Romans 2 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that we earn eternal life by works. It shows that God’s judgment is righteous and that a changed life matters. But Romans 3 and 4 make clear that justification is not by works. Works reveal what a man is. They do not purchase eternal life.

On hope, you are treating hope like uncertainty. Biblical hope is not “maybe I will make it.” Biblical hope is confident expectation based on God’s promise. Titus 1:2 says, “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” That hope rests on the promise of God who cannot lie, not on my ability to keep myself saved.

The Holy Spirit does not oppose eternal security. He seals the believer. Paul says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. Again, he says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption” ~Ephesians 4:30.

That is the point. Hope does not fight against security. Hope rests on God’s promise. The Spirit of promise does not make salvation uncertain. He is the earnest, the guarantee, until the day of redemption.

So no, eternal security does not oppose hope. It gives hope its foundation. My hope is not in my grip on Christ. My hope is in Christ’s grip on me.

Jn 15 no in order to be a branch it must have been in Christ and did not abide

I don't believe we can lose salvation either, thats why I don't believe we receive salvation until we die mt 10:22 and are judged heb 9:27

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)


thks

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Non-sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated. All nouns exist in a non-time dependency.

1. Is an apple eternal or temporal?
2. Is yesterdays forcast eternal or temporal?
3. Is dinner eternal or temporal?

In application, one may receive grace for X but that doesn't apply to Y. If I have a 5-day grace period to pay the mortgage and have used it for the last 5 years, I don't get to add 60 days grace to this months mortgage payment.

well you can deny it all you want

the fact is grace is eternal. Once you are under its umbrella. you can not come out from it..

Because Grace cannot be earned, it can never be unearned.