Good day to you also! I shall heartily disagree. Israel is and remains the children of Jacob.
We are rather called the children of Abraham. Israel and the gentiles are both branches of the tree that is Abraham.
Much love!
How Confidant Are You Being Saved?
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We are rather called the children of Abraham. Israel and the gentiles are both branches of the tree that is Abraham.
Much love!
Ephesians 2 which I posted tells you the truth. It is God's works that save us not ours.
But we are commanded to be careful to do good works, if you do evil works, you deny Him.
Good works show our fruitfulness to God, who has done His work in us, saving us.
And we are told to be fruitful.
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in Heaven.
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God, but in their works they deny Him, being abominable and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Titus 2:7
in all things showing thyself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing uncorruptness, seriousness, sincerity,
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - 21st Century King James Version
Charge those who are rich in this world that they be not haughty, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; that they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate, laying up in store for themselves a...
18 that they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate,
19 laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
KJ21
This is a faithful saying, and these things I enjoin that thou affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Titus 3:14
And let our own also learn to perform good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
JimKnox
Member
You need to show Scripture
You said Israel is...children of Abraham. Ok so far.
Then somehow you claim the Gentiles are but are not children of Abraham?
I think you confused yourself.
You need to show some Scripture supporting that conclusion.
You said Israel is...children of Abraham. Ok so far.
Then somehow you claim the Gentiles are but are not children of Abraham?
I think you confused yourself.
How many actually walk like this as believers today?
www.biblegateway.com
Therefore laying aside all malice and all guile, and hypocrisy and envy and all evil speaking,
2 as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the Word, that ye may grow thereby,
3 if so it be that ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 Coming to Him as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,
5 ye also as living stones are built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture: “Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious; and he that believeth in Him shall not be confounded.”
7 Unto you therefore who believe, He is precious; but unto those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,”
8 and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense,” even to those who stumble at the Word, being disobedient, unto which also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.
10 In times past ye were not a people, but are now the people of God; who had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,
12 having your way of life honest among the Gentiles, that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether it be to the king as supreme,
14 or unto governors as unto those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with welldoing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men”
16 as free, and not using your liberty as a cloak for maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Peter 2 - 21st Century King James Version
Therefore laying aside all malice and all guile, and hypocrisy and envy and all evil speaking, as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the Word, that ye may grow thereby, if so it be that ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. Coming to Him as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed by...
Therefore laying aside all malice and all guile, and hypocrisy and envy and all evil speaking,
2 as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the Word, that ye may grow thereby,
3 if so it be that ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 Coming to Him as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,
5 ye also as living stones are built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture: “Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious; and he that believeth in Him shall not be confounded.”
7 Unto you therefore who believe, He is precious; but unto those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,”
8 and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense,” even to those who stumble at the Word, being disobedient, unto which also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.
10 In times past ye were not a people, but are now the people of God; who had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,
12 having your way of life honest among the Gentiles, that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether it be to the king as supreme,
14 or unto governors as unto those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with welldoing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men”
16 as free, and not using your liberty as a cloak for maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
Think what you like, no matter.
What?
Try reading it again:
Israel is and remains the children of Jacob.
We are rather called the children of Abraham. Israel and the gentiles are both branches of the tree that is Abraham.
You referenced the chapters where this is taught, I would think you would know this passage.
Romans 11:15-21 EMTV
15) For if their casting away means reconciliation for the world, what will their acceptance be, if not life from the dead?
16) For if the firstfruit is holy, so also the lump; and if the root is holy, so also the branches.
17) But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a partaker of the root and of the fatness of the olive tree,
18) do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19) You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
20) Well said. By unbelief they were broken off, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear.
21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps He may not spare you either.
Both Israel and Gentiles are branches, not the tree itself.
Much love!
JimKnox
Member
That is complete nonsense.
An olive tree is not a tree without branches.
Go to Google and produce an actual olive tree with no branches that is not dead.
By all accounts a tree is NOT a tree without branches. To claim otherwise is nonsense.
Your conclusion is not what the text says.
It is no wonder that unbelievers say Christians are illogical when there are nincompoops running around making hash out of Sctipture like you are trying here.
Suddenly ad hominems! That speaks volumes! I guess you haven't heard this before. Something to think about then. But then if you get your doctrine from google . . . what can I say?
This seems like a silly argument to me. Trees have branches, yes, and the Bible identifies those branches as Israel and Gentiles. And as anyone knows, even google, the branch is not the tree.
Nope, you can't use this to blend the people group of Israel with the gentile Christians.
In Christ is Neither Jew Nor Greek. That means Israel is the nation, the children of Jacob, and those in Christ are not identified as either Jew or Gentile, except in a secondary way, as it were, according to flesh, that is, the fact of their birth into a family.
Much love!
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Behold
Well-Known Member
StSteven would agree with you, as that is His Gospel.
However Paul The Apostle defines that Satanic gospel as both false and cursed. (as well as the person who teaches it)
Galatians 1:8
JimKnox
Member
The branches, root, trunk, leaves ARE the tree.
By definition a tree is not a tree without branches.
It is nonsense to claim the branches are not the tree.
By definition, a tree is not a tree without the totality of its parts. Root, trunk, branches, leaves/fruit.
Remove the branches and all you have is a stump. Not a tree.
A tree is a woody plant with a trunk and a crown of branches. Remove the crown and all you have is a stump.
This is common botany. God used this illustration for people FAMILIAR with farming and husbandry.
Perhaps you have been in a city sitting behind a desk all your life?
The Biblical teaching is clear. Israel is an olive tree. The Gentiles are wild olives by nature. God took the natural branches OFF the cultivated olive tree (Israel) and GRAFTED branches from the wild olive tree INTO the cultivated tree. It is the SAME TREE NOW.
Claiming otherwise is to do violence to Scripture.
Good day.
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