Like most hidden truths in Scripture it can't be proven outright because the verdict is based circumstantial evidence. My guess: the disciples.
Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?
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David in NJ
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Like I said it’s circumstantial evidence and it can’t be proven.
You say not applicable based on your Bible reading experiences and I say highly likely based on my Bible reading experiences.
Miss the point?? I don't think so!
Jesus entered the world riding a Donkey, symbolizing humility and servanthood.
(Yep! Nothing to notice here). And that was God's point!!
The reason WHY Jesus' first manifestation in mortal flesh was so quietly revealed was because for years, God the Father was attempting to keep His Son's mortal entrance into the world a secret. Rom. 16:25
Jesus was coming to us as "the [sacrificial] Lamb of God".
If they, who were of the world, knew that Jesus was the Savior of the world, NO one of the world would've allowed Him to be killed.
1 Corinthians 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Therefore, if Jesus wasn't slain/murdered, and simply was allowed to live out his mortal life and then died a natural death, there would've been NO permanent lasting Sacrifice for God's forgiveness of OUR SINS.
So, for Jesus to be shown returning on a white horse, it is symbolic of being victorious and having great power and authority.
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David in NJ
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Your PINNED = It is NOT the disciples , not even close!!!Sure bring it on
Think my brother = think Truth on this concerning the whites clouds and the white horse.
@CrowCross
Clouds are easy and not up to interpretation. It’s either literal clouds and we know it’s not because Revelation says it’s given in signs.
There’s only one other type of clouds in the Bible.
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Or one other option which it certainly is not.
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Well, certainly NOT 2 Peter 2:17
@CrowCross, you want to get in on this as it is a Monumental Revelation from the Gospel and Revelation
Let me splain sometin to you Lucy...
When Jesus left for heaven in the ascension...Jesus didn't leave in the display of having great power and authority like Jesus will have when He returns like presented in Rev 19.
The reason why is because Jesus returns twice.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
THINK AGAIN = Follow the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE to find the Answer
What recognized defenders of the orthodox true Christian faith before 1800 believed that?
Why would. that matter? Truth is truth no matter what year it is.
Show me how the description of Jesus returning in Rev 19 is anything like the way He left or is presented in 1 Thes 4.
REV 19 return.
Rapture return
JESUS COMES BACK TWICE.
I agree!! Jesus returns TWICE.
BUT... not in the way that you have been led to believe by the charlatans of church-ianity.
Apparently, you have not studied the Three manifestations of Jesus' Eternal presence of Past, Present and Future.
If you recall, when Jesus was on the cross, he was abandoned and forsaken of by God the Father.
But when Jesus was resurrected into NEW Life, that is when He was glorified. (John 7:39) and rejoined with his Father.
Following that along 40 days later, Jesus then Ascended unto His Father into Heaven. That is when He and His Father became the Holy Spirit together, aka "the Comforter".
Then on the 50th day of Pentecost, Jesus RETURNED to this earth in the form of the Holy Spirit, which is God the Father and God the Son TOGETHER AGAIN as ONE (John 14:23).
Important to fully understand:
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will COME unto him, and make OUR abode with him.
You have read His words, but you have NOT studied all of KJV John ch. 14.
All His words are there, fully describing John 14:23.
As Jesus spoke the gospel to us DURING his First manifestation, he was also telling us of when his Second manifestation would be, which was 50 days later on Pentecost. Since that day, Jesus has had the Father in Him, and together through His Church of born again Saints, they are the Holy Spirit of God within us, reconciling the world unto Himself. 2 Cor. 5:19.
Which is to say that we are still in the time of Jesus' Second manifestation, aka the Age of God's Grace.
Today, we are all waiting for Jesus' Third manifestation, which is:
KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel [words] of our Lord Jesus Christ [given to us during His First manifestation]:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
If your truth disagrees with 18 centuries of recognized Christian orthodox truth, then which truth is true?
That's your truth.
That's not 18 centuries of recognized Christian orthodox truth.
Which is the true truth?
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