WHAT IS MEANT IN HEBREWS SAYING THERE IS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS?

[Eternally Grateful]

There's another thread about. I don't buy into the belief that Christians never sin.

No do I

But comming a sin is not returning to sin

returning to sin means they have returned to a life of sin.

 

[amigo de christo]

The specific case in Hebrews was a Jewish-Christian defecting back to Judaism. The big-picture question: Is the same principle expressed in Hebrews 6:4-6 applicable to the general case of a born-again Christian repudiating Christ and becoming an atheist, a Muslim, a Buddhist...?

Picirilli thought so. What do you say?

oh i know it is . and so is this as well , ya cant be a muslim christain , a budist christain
a new age christain or etc .
NOR can you dare to believe that other religoins have differing paths to the same GOD as we worship .
ANY christain who supports anti christ is no christain .
And thus any who supports the idea that satan , the all incliusive god , and his ecumeincal intefaith harlot
has sold us , IS SUPPORTING anti christ who by peace shall destroy many .
Nor does a christain identify WITH his or her sin OR ANY SIN .
THERE IS NO SUCH THING as a GAY christain . OUR IDENTITY is not in SIN but IN CHRIST .
OH yes lambando , OH YES , i have come to expose the doctrine of satan and his well favored harlot
who has simply used the name of JESUS to preach abomination and A LIE . And has promised
them this is the way to attain peace n safety .

 

[mailmandan]

No

Because John said they were never saved..

if we deliberately go on living in sin, have we ever been saved?

1 John 3:
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

By the way.. Do you sin on accident when yuo sin?

Amen! To willfully sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth (Hebrews 10:26) is what I call deliberately rejecting Jesus Christ with eyes wide open. Receiving the knowledge of the truth does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. Rejecting this knowledge is the final straw.

Hebrews 10:26 - For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate] (AMP) This is not a loss of salvation but a final rejection to the offer of salvation.

In Hebrews 10:39, we read - But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

 

[GodsGrace]

I did have a colleague at work who left Christianity for Islam, changed her name. I didn't know her well. She obviously still believes in God, and probably respects Isa/Jesus as a prophet but not as savior (or sacrifice). Analogous?

I think we have to leave these matters in God's hands.
I have family members that are not saved...actually atheists.
It's more common here than in the States.

My first reply would be that it is not analogous.
I believe the Jewish religion is honoring the same God of the bible.
I believe Islam teaches a different God and believes in a different God.

But we say it's a matter of the heart.
If a person does not know better but is sincere,
I believe it's different than a person that knows about Jesus but rejects Him.

Jesus said:

John 8.24
24“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

 

[GodsGrace]

What's interesting about that is the context of the immediately preceding verses is idolatry and lack of reverence toward God. Human depravity is God's punishment for idolatry? "Clark, that's the gift that keeps on giving."

It could be idolatry or lack of reverence....
don't most sins fall under those two categories?

Or it could be pride or egotism.
The result is the same.

 

[Lambano]

Because John said they were never saved..

These believers had the Holy Spirit (verse 4).

 

[GodsGrace]

No

Because John said they were never saved..

if we deliberately go on living in sin, have we ever been saved?

1 John 3:
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

By the way.. Do you sin on accident when yuo sin?

The dreaded 1 John 3:9


Incredible how ONE SENTENCE could change all of Christian theology.

Ditto for Hebews 6:6
6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance,

One sentence wipes away everything Paul taught
and everything that JESUS taught.

Is it any wonder we have these debates.

 

[Lambano]

The dreaded 1 John 3:9


Incredible how ONE SENTENCE could change all of Christian theology.

Ditto for Hebews 6:6
6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance,

One sentence wipes away everything Paul taught
and everything that JESUS taught.

Is it any wonder we have these debates.

It's special cases like these that make me cynical about our ability to make a coherent systematic theology using Sola Scriptura as our operating principle.

But I'm okay with that.

 

[Lambano]

It could be idolatry or lack of reverence....
don't most sins fall under those two categories?

Or it could be pride or egotism.
The result is the same.

Pride and it's brother, self-centeredness?

 

[ProDeo]

I remember that well. When Pharoah hardened his own heart, God sent more plagues. When Pharoah was ready to fold his cards and give God what God demanded, that didn't suit God's plan, so God hardened Pharoah's heart so He could send another plague. Was that even necessary? That's one of the reasons why I'm interested in exploring this.

In the context of my college friend who converted to Judaism, she's shown no sign in the last 40+ years of wanting to return to being a Southern Baptist. A hardened heart?

I think the key-phrase is God's longsuffering patience before He declares someone a reprobate.

Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

 

[GodsGrace]

Pride and it's brother, self-centeredness?

I think egotism is self-centerdness.
I believe an egotistical person is one that thinks only of himself...
he is the center of the universe.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! To willfully sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth (Hebrews 10:26) is what I call deliberately rejecting Jesus Christ with eyes wide open. Receiving the knowledge of the truth does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. Rejecting this knowledge is the final straw.

Hebrews 10:26 - For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate] (AMP) This is not a loss of salvation but a final rejection to the offer of salvation.

In Hebrews 10:39, we read - But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

can it get much clearer??

we are not of those

who are we? True believers.

who are they?

Make believers.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

These believers had the Holy Spirit (verse 4).

if they had the HS, then they still do

eternal life is eternal not conditional

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The dreaded 1 John 3:9

I know you hate it..

But it is the word..

Incredible how ONE SENTENCE could change all of Christian theology.

Ditto for Hebews 6:6
6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance,

One sentence wipes away everything Paul taught
and everything that JESUS taught.

Yes once sentence could if we interpret it the wrong way

but the bible will never contradict itself.

Is it any wonder we have these debates.

interpretation is the cause of debates. if we all interpret it the right way. we would not have these debates..lol

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's special cases like these that make me cynical about our ability to make a coherent systematic theology using Sola Scriptura as our operating principle.

But I'm okay with that.

the issue is not sola scripture

the issue is interpreting the word so it does not contradict itself.

that to me is an internal check of the word interpreting itself.

 

[GodsGrace]

I know you hate it..

But it is the word..

Yes once sentence could if we interpret it the wrong way

but the bible will never contradict itself.



interpretation is the cause of debates. if we all interpret it the right way. we would not have these debates..lol

But then I would miss you and Dan!


Look EG,,,,
Here is the contradiction YOU are creating:

1 John 1:9
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


vs


1 John 3:9
9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


OK
Now reconcile the two.

I know you don't need his help,
but if @mailmandan is around, he might want to comment.
He's an expert at this stuff.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's special cases like these that make me cynical about our ability to make a coherent systematic theology using Sola Scriptura as our operating principle.

But I'm okay with that.

A coherent system cannot be made using sola scriptura.
Plus we see a lot of solo scriptura on these threads.

I'm not much for systematic theologies...
but
let's say that those that were taught by the Apostles DID NOT believe in unconditional eternal salvation.
Let's say they all believed salvation could be forfeited.

SHOULD churches all agree on OSAS?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But then I would miss you and Dan!

And we would miss you. But that does not mean we should not heed scripture

Look EG,,,,
Here is the contradiction YOU are creating:

1 John 1:9
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


vs


1 John 3:9
9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

No contradiction at all

I. Chapter 1 John makes it clear

If I say I have no sin I am decieved and I should Confess that sin I claim I do not have
If I say I have never sinned I make God a liar for all have sinned

2 chapter 3 is not discussing having no sin it is discussing a lifestyle if sin

Again you have to interpret the word so it does not Contradict

Whoever lives in sin is of the devil
And they have never met God

Whoever is born of God can not practice so. Or live a lifestyle of sin

OK
Now reconcile the two.

I did and have done so Many Times

Can you reconcile that a person who is now
Living in sin. Even if they claim at one time they were saved has ever known God? Because John said they have never known God

I know you don't need his help,
but if @mailmandan is around, he might want to comment.
He's an expert at this stuff.

Nah. Again I just interpret in a way to let scripture interpret scripture

It all works out in the end. No contradiction

 

[GodsGrace]

And we would miss you. But that does not mean we should not heed scripture

Yes sir.

No contradiction at all

I. Chapter 1 John makes it clear

If I say I have no sin I am decieved and I should Confess that sin I claim I do not have
If I say I have never sinned I make God a liar for all have sinned

2 chapter 3 is not discussing having no sin it is discussing a lifestyle if sin

Again you have to interpret the word so it does not Contradict

Whoever lives in sin is of the devil
And they have never met God

Whoever is born of God can not practice so. Or live a lifestyle of sin





I did and have done so Many Times

Can you reconcile that a person who is now
Living in sin. Even if they claim at one time they were saved has ever known God? Because John said they have never known God

I agree fully with your reconciliation of 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 3:9
It is the difference between committing a sin and living in sin.

Again, you are taking ONE SENTENCE and creating an entire doctrine from it.

If someone that knows God never sins...
or one that sins has never known God...

This would be alluding to sinless perfection.
Do you believe in sinless perfection?

Neither do I.
So surely John did not mean what it sounds like....
unless a person that knows God NEVER SINS.

Nah. Again I just interpret in a way to let scripture interpret scripture

It all works out in the end. No contradiction

Problem is...I could say the same.

 

[Lambano]

SHOULD churches all agree on OSAS?

It would be nice if we agreed on doctrine. Maybe if we went back to burning the works of heretics?

(But not actually burning the heretics at the stake.)