What is the purpose of Grace?

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Lizbeth

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There's nothing really to say to people who consider themselves to be the chosen of God. Logic will not suffice. The bible will not suffice. Once a person has been lifted up in the outer man, there is no hearing of humility or the fear of the Lord. Let them be.
Shaking my head. Here is who God chooses:

1Co 1:26-29

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

That no flesh should glory in his presence.
 

Episkopos

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Those who need insults to make a point, have no point.
If people want to tilt the balance in their favour while ignoring all the warnings in the bible...that's on them. What I object to is that they try to teach others the same lies and errors. They don't enter the kingdom themselves and they try stopping others from exercising the kind of faith it takes to get noticed by God.
 

Scooter Jackson

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In this episode we explore the purpose of grace and by extension the purpose of salvation. Is the prime directive of the gospel that God fulfill our desires or that we meet His?

Did you provide the definition of grace the Lord gives us in His Word?

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly,
righteously, and godly, in this present world

Here's a couple of warnings given about grace to be ware of.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this
condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and
denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


They don't enter the kingdom themselves and they try stopping others from exercising the kind of faith it takes to get noticed by God.

That's exactly what the fake grace teachers do
 

amigo de christo

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Shaking my head. Here is who God chooses:

1Co 1:26-29

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

That no flesh should glory in his presence.
and yet again read what he wrote . And see that it is HE who is guilty of what he accuses us of being .
HE the one who acts like he is the great power of God with great and mighty spiritual wisdom .
And yet uses this wisdom to NEGATE THE FACT ONE MUST FIRST BLEIEVE ON JESUS . the man is lost sister .
The HIC is strong on that one . He d oes by his own power but will never attain to what he beleives HE has attained too sister .
Pray hard for his repentance and continue to expose the works of inclusivity and preach ONLY JESUS .
AND ALL THINGS HE DID teach and later the aposetles did . many add too and many take from . And that will
be their destruction on the DAY OF GOD ALL MIGHTY and THE LAMB when all stand before Him and the goats begin to wail .
 

amigo de christo

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Did you provide the definition of grace the Lord gives us in His Word?

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly,
righteously, and godly, in this present world

Here's a couple of warnings given about grace to be ware of.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this
condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and
denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?




That's exactly what the fake grace teachers do
there is a false grace all right . the hyper grace ones preach it
AND SO TOO does anyone who removes THE DIRE NECESSITY TO BELIEVE ON JESUS .
BOTH SIDES are and have been decieved . SOON all not in the lambs book of life
will have merged as one under false love , under inclusivity and the all inclusive god .
Every religion will bow before it and believe it is love and is of GOD and is his plan for world peace .
AND all within christendom who rejected , denied CHRIST JESUS whether in lip or in heart WILL merge with them as one .
ALL beleiving THIS IS LOVE , all beleiving THIS IS GOD , all beleiving THIS is the means by which to attain global peace .
AND YET ALL OF IT was OF SATAN . we are all BEING DEICEVED BY ALL SIDES NOW .
oPEN THAT BIBLE AND LET US G ET BACK INT O THOSE PAGES FOR OURSELVES .
 
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amigo de christo

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There's quite alot of annihilationism teaching going around these days which is of course heresy
THERE is a lot more than that going around as well .
What would you do if it told you that SATAN himself can say GOD IS LOVE
and yet all along by means of his inclusive and eucmiencal love HE LED THEM ALL ASTRAY and into REBELLION
against the ONE TRUE AND ONLY GOD AND HIS CHRIST that could have saved them .
JESUS IS NOT MINSTIR TO ANY SIN
NOR TO UNBLEIF IN HIM EITHER .
 

ProDeo

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If people want to tilt the balance in their favour while ignoring all the warnings in the bible...that's on them. What I object to is that they try to teach others the same lies and errors. They don't enter the kingdom themselves and they try stopping others from exercising the kind of faith it takes to get noticed by God.

I don't see anything wrong Lizbeth believes. But you have something against her and it is personal. That's not holy.

This is how REAL holiness looks like, the prophet Isaiah and his encounter with the Lord.

Jes 6:1 In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple.
Jes 6:2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
Jes 6:3 And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!”
Jes 6:4 And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke.
Jes 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!
Jes 6:6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar.
Jes 6:7 And he touched my mouth and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for.

Unclean lips.

How about that for a warning.
 
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Marvelloustime

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there is a false grace all right . the hyper grace ones preach it
AND SO TOO does anyone who removes THE DIRE NECESSITY TO BELIEVE ON JESUS .
BOTH SIDES are and have been decieved . SOON all not in the lambs book of life
will have merged as one under false love , under inclusivity and the all inclusive god .
Every religion will bow before it and believe it is love and is of GOD and is his plan for world peace .
AND all within christendom who rejected , denied CHRIST JESUS whether in lip or in heart WILL merge with them as one .
ALL beleiving THIS IS LOVE , all beleiving THIS IS GOD , all beleiving THIS is the means by which to attain global peace .
AND YET ALL OF IT was OF SATAN . we are all BEING DEICEVED BY ALL SIDES NOW .
oPEN THAT BIBLE AND LET US G ET BACK INT O THOSE PAGES FOR OURSELVES .
@amigo de christo
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Marvelloustime

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and yet again read what he wrote . And see that it is HE who is guilty of what he accuses us of being .
HE the one who acts like he is the great power of God with great and mighty spiritual wisdom .
And yet uses this wisdom to NEGATE THE FACT ONE MUST FIRST BLEIEVE ON JESUS . the man is lost sister .
The HIC is strong on that one . He d oes by his own power but will never attain to what he beleives HE has attained too sister .
Pray hard for his repentance and continue to expose the works of inclusivity and preach ONLY JESUS .
AND ALL THINGS HE DID teach and later the aposetles did . many add too and many take from . And that will
be their destruction on the DAY OF GOD ALL MIGHTY and THE LAMB when all stand before Him and the goats begin to wail .
@amigo de christo
save-image.png
 

Episkopos

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I don't see anything wrong Lizbeth believes. But you have something against her and it is personal. That's not holy.

You don't understand what holiness is or humility. You demand humility from others...you want respect for your person. But as any reader of the bible should know...there is to be no respect of persons in judgment. And this is NOT personal. At least not on my account. I respond to what is being written...clinically and without bias. I discuss ideas.I discuss doctrine. If a person is being dishonest...I will point that out. If a person is claiming things that are not true....I will point that out. I need to pull out the weeds to get at what is worth preserving. You are the one making this personal. I am operating a ministry...as a helper for people...to encourage but also to correct. You only see through an unbroken ego. Of course you don't see that. But look at your own posts...then compare that to the OP.
This is how REAL holiness looks like, the prophet Isaiah and his encounter with the Lord.

Jes 6:1 In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple.
Jes 6:2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
Jes 6:3 And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!”
Jes 6:4 And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke.
Jes 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!
Jes 6:6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar.
Jes 6:7 And he touched my mouth and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for.

Unclean lips.

How about that for a warning.
This comes across as a confession. Why can't you see that what you are posting is about you? I am a mirror here. If you read what I'm writing without the personal bias you would have to admit to the truth. But you are making this personal and trying to drag me down to your level. And that is because you are not humble at all...but you demand it from others. If you don't want to be a failure in the Christian walk I suggest you take a much wider viewpoint...sit back and look at it from a more long range perspective...try to understand the eternal perspective. This is not about you...this not about about human dignity.
 
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Lizbeth

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You don't understand what holiness is or humility. You demand humility from others...you want respect for your person. But as any reader of the bible should know...there is to be no respect of persons in judgment. And this is NOT personal. At least not on my account. I respond to what is being written...clinically and without bias. I discuss ideas.I discuss doctrine. If a person is being dishonest...I will point that out. If a person is claiming things that are not true....I will point that out. I need to pull out the weeds to get at what is worth preserving. You are the one making this personal. I am operating a ministry...as a helper for people...to encourage but also to correct. You only see through an unbroken ego. Of course you don't see that. But look at your own posts...then compare that to the OP.

This comes across as a confession. Why can't you see that what you are posting is about you? I am a mirror here. If you read what I'm writing without the personal bias you would have to admit to the truth. But you are making this personal and trying to drag me down into your level. And that is because you are not humble at all...but you demand it from others. If you don't want to be a failure in the Christian walk I suggest you take a much wider viewpoint...sit back and look at it from a more long range perspective...try to understand the eternal perspective. This is not about you...this not about about human dignity.
SMH
 

mailmandan

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Shaking my head. Here is who God chooses:

1Co 1:26-29

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

That no flesh should glory in his presence.
1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. ✝️
 
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Episkopos

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1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Very few see the need (the dire need) to be crucified and broken by the power of the cross. But without that breaking we remain a sinner just as before. The ONLY way to be rid of the sin nature is by being crucified under the power (anointing) of the cross of Christ.

His power is undeniable. Jesus gives us this power over the flesh and sin. But before we can have something of eternal value...He needs to TAKE AWAY what is filthy and corrupted.

Jeremiah was sent to the nations (that's us) and his very difficult ministry was to first break down and tear down....before he could build and plant. What God does He first informs the prophets. Later in Jeremiah we see the same thing, but this time it's God Himself doing the breaking and rebuilding.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
It seems foolish to religious people that there is a power from heaven to do what most people keep locked away in their minds. People invent ways to avoid the truth...like creating a "positional" theology that allows for unbroken people to claim to have been crucified with Christ. The seeming foolishness of believing in what people can't see or imagine...is made doubly foolish by claiming things that aren't true about those invisible things. Like having an imaginary friend.

What people will do, based on the invisible nature of spiritual things...is claim to be clothed when they are naked....since they think everyone else is following the same deception.
 
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MostlyConfused

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you have something against her and it is personal.
So THATS why episkopos goes into every thread she starts or frequents and seeks her out to argue over everything she says? Because he has a personal problem with her? That explains a lot. I wondered why he chases her down like that every morning! Why he barely ever goes into any thread unless SHE is there…
I guess I just didn’t see it because of wonky discernment.
 

Episkopos

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So THATS why episkopos goes into every thread she starts or frequents and seeks her out to argue over everything she says? Because he has a personal problem with her? That explains a lot. I wondered why he chases her down like that every morning! Why he barely ever goes into any thread unless SHE is there…
I guess I just didn’t see it because of wonky discernment.
It's like when people hit you and then claim you hurt their fist. Unbroken believers are a very sorry lot. They have fully missed the whole purpose of grace. It is not for human aggrandizement. It is meant to break us and convince us that we are nothing without God.
 

ProDeo

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You don't understand what holiness is or humility. You demand humility from others...you want respect for your person. But as any reader of the bible should know...there is to be no respect of persons in judgment. And this is NOT personal. At least not on my account. I respond to what is being written...clinically and without bias. I discuss ideas.I discuss doctrine. If a person is being dishonest...I will point that out. If a person is claiming things that are not true....I will point that out. I need to pull out the weeds to get at what is worth preserving. You are the one making this personal. I am operating a ministry...as a helper for people...to encourage but also to correct. You only see through an unbroken ego. Of course you don't see that. But look at your own posts...then compare that to the OP.

You entirely missing the point, there were 2 disparaging insulting posts by MC (unclean lips) and when you joined the party, glossing over her insults (instead of correcting her) it became also also an issue for you, a lesson from the OT about real holiness, not our pale reflection of holiness.

This is how REAL holiness looks like, the prophet Isaiah and his encounter with the Lord.

Jes 6:1 In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple.
Jes 6:2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
Jes 6:3 And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!”
Jes 6:4 And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke.
Jes 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!
Jes 6:6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar.
Jes 6:7 And he touched my mouth and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for.

Unclean lips.

How about that for a warning.

This comes across as a confession. Why can't you see that what you are posting is about you?

Indeed, it's about me, but is it also about you?, also about MC ?

Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost;

What happened (changed) when you had your encounter with the Lord ?


~~~~~~~~~~

Another example great example from the NT, different setting, but it comes down to the same point, in the presence of the Lord no sin is allowed, not the smallest one, the story of Ananias and Sapphira, Acts chapter 4:32 till 5:11, key passages -

Acts 4:34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

Acts 5:1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Although from 4:34 we can not conclude it was a demand to sacrifice the full price of the sales A&S must have considered it but rejected it, to save for a rainy day or whatever other motive, wanted to be a part anyway, sacrificed partly and death followed.

Acts 5:11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.

What a warning, if the presence of the Lord is strong be as meek as possible.
 

Episkopos

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You entirely missing the point, there were 2 disparaging insulting posts by MC (unclean lips) and when you joined the party, glossing over her insults (instead of correcting her) it became also also an issue for you, a lesson from the OT about real holiness, not our pale reflection of holiness.

This is not about holiness....but about your touchy-feely sensitivities regarding a proper response to what is obviously way out of line. The flesh is being championed by my critics here and you join the party. Talk about unclean.
Indeed, it's about me, but is it also about you?, also about MC ?

Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost;

What happened (changed) when you had your encounter with the Lord ?


~~~~~~~~~~

Another example great example from the NT, different setting, but it comes down to the same point, in the presence of the Lord no sin is allowed, not the smallest one, the story of Ananias and Sapphira, Acts chapter 4:32 till 5:11, key passages -

Acts 4:34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

Acts 5:1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Although from 4:34 we can not conclude it was a demand to sacrifice the full price of the sales A&S must have considered it but rejected it, to save for a rainy day or whatever other motive, wanted to be a part anyway, sacrificed partly and death followed.

Acts 5:11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.

What a warning, if the presence of the Lord is strong be as meek as possible.
Amen.
 

Laurina

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Those who need insults to make a point, have no point.
I don’t see any insults here. I suppose it's by the voice in your head you read it by.
Matt.6:22 "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!"

If YOU see THIS as insults, how is it that you NEVER point out Amigo's insults against Epi? Where is the balance?? Who is judging and from where??