Pretrib fallacies

[William Barton]

So, is there also a rapture in Revelation 11:12, as you previously claimed?

IMO:
"Rapture" is an English word stemming from Latin rapere= "to seize." The apostle Paul was caught up, the two witnesses were caught up, all believers are caught up upon death. It's like taking a plane to another country.

The earth we live on is a haven in a desolate universe. The universe itself will be replaced (Revelation chapters 21, 22).

Revelation 11:12 "they went up to heaven in a cloud" is a rapture.

Genesis 5:24 "Enoch ...was no more, because God took him" is a rapture.

2Kings2:11 "...Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind" is a rapture.

Luke 24:51 "he (Jesus) was carried up into heaven" is a rapture."

 

[WPM]

IMO:
"Rapture" is an English word stemming from Latin rapere= "to seize." The apostle Paul was caught up, the two witnesses were caught up, all believers are caught up upon death. It's like taking a plane to another country.

The earth we live on is a haven in a desolate universe. The universe itself will be replaced (Revelation chapters 21, 22).

This earth will be regenerated when Jesus comes. We are glorified to inherit it.

 

[WPM]

IMO:
"Rapture" is an English word stemming from Latin rapere= "to seize." The apostle Paul was caught up, the two witnesses were caught up, all believers are caught up upon death. It's like taking a plane to another country.

The earth we live on is a haven in a desolate universe. The universe itself will be replaced (Revelation chapters 21, 22).

The Bible teaches us: just as there was a connection between the fall of man and the fall of creation so there will be a correlation between the glorification of man and the glorification of creation.

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 declares: “For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

1 Corinthians 15:50-54 continues: “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.”

To inherit the incorrupt age to come, God has to suitably change us into incorrupt beings. Basically, He is going to perfect us so that we are qualified to inherit the perfect world to come.

This eliminates the oft-stated Premillennial claim that the unsaved can in fact inhabit the new earth. Regardless of whether one is saved or not, if they aren’t glorified, they cannot inherit the new earth. No mortal shall inhabit it.

The prime focus of these passages is “the resurrection of the dead” and the termination of death. This is the time when corruption is finally banished from the earth forever. This is the occasion when the redeemed "inherit the kingdom of God." This is the much-anticipated arrival of the new creation in all its visible, glorious, perfect and eternal glory.

But when does this happen?

Both of these passages demonstrate that this occurs at the “coming” (or parousia) of the Lord, which is described as “the last trump.” It also confirms that this ushers in “the end.” This is the closing curtain of time, sin, corruption and mortality. We are now into eternity. No one could therefore argue with any validity that death is not finally and eternally destroyed at the second coming, the time here denoted as “the end.”

This passage closely mirrors many other similar passages, confirming that the last enemy is demolished at “the last trump.” Corruption finds it end when Christ comes in all His glory. This corroborates what Paul was teaching about the scourge of corruption being terminated when the elect are redeemed at Christ’s appearing. No one can deny the correlation between the glorification of the elect and the glorification of the earth. God’s people cannot populate an incorrupt earth. They need their bodies suitably attired in perfection to be able to enjoy that eternal state.

 

[WPM]

IMO:
"Rapture" is an English word stemming from Latin rapere= "to seize." The apostle Paul was caught up, the two witnesses were caught up, all believers are caught up upon death. It's like taking a plane to another country.

The earth we live on is a haven in a desolate universe. The universe itself will be replaced (Revelation chapters 21, 22).

Romans 8:16-23 teaches, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption [Gr. phthartos or perishableness or decaying] into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will be finally delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.”

Scripture makes it abundantly clear there will be an end to the current fallen state. There will be a day of complete deliverance.

At this juncture we must briefly enquire, what is this “bondage of corruption” spoken of in this passage that will one day be removed? It is the awful curse that came upon all mankind as a result of Adam’s fall in the Garden of Eden. This curse embodies every effect of the Fall that afflicts man, including sin, death, and every form of decay. It is the perishableness we suffer from in this life.

1 Peter 1:3-7: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable or undecaying], and undefiled, and that fadeth not away [Gr. amarantos or perpetual], reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.”

Like Romans 8:16-23, 1 Peter 1:3-7 is comparing the toil and trials of this present age to the glory that will be experienced when Jesus comes. We see that the corruption will be eternally lifted when Jesus comes and introduces a perfect arrangement. Believers are shown to receive an “inheritance incorruptible” at “the appearing of Jesus Christ” – which is here also described as “the last time.”

So, let us consider some glorious truths in this passage:

• The means by which the righteous will all physically rise is “the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
• What they rise to is “an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away.”
• The location of that inheritance is “reserved in heaven”
• The time of this resurrection and reward will occur: “in the last time” which is here expressly identified with the “appearing of Jesus Christ.”

What we experience in this imperfect age is perishing and decaying, but when Jesus comes, we are ushered into a new age to receive an inheritance that will be perfect, non-decaying and eternal. Premillennialists try and move this to the end of their supposed future millennium. But this passage is just one of many forbids that.

In Luke 20:34-36, Jesus basically compares the temporal imperfect state of this present age/world to the glory of the age/world to come. Jesus says: “The children of this world [Gr. aion or age] marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world [Gr. aion or age], and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”

This couldn’t be any clearer. This teaching of Christ reinforces the fact that not everyone is qualified to inherit the perfect world to come that arrives with the return of Christ. This narrative totally prohibits mortals and the wicked from populating the new earth. After all, that age is depicted as a reward for the redeemed. It is for those who belong to God. It is for those who know Him personally.

While marriage takes place in “this age/world,” Christ tells us that it will not take place in “that age/world,” which follows the resurrection. There is no marriage after the resurrection because Christ ushers in the eternal state which requires perfect spiritual bodies instead of corrupt physical bodies. The glorified saints will have perfected bodies, just like the elect angels. There will be no more separation, sin or death. Marriage is therefore terminated, because it represents division between human beings.

 

[GeneZ]

I'm sticking with pre-trib. I hope you don't mind.

I was not saying anything against the pre-trib rapture.

Are we on the same page?

 

[CrowCross]

I was not saying anything against the pre-trib rapture.

Are we on the same page?

Eschatological belief has nothing to do with ones salvation. I just present the pre-trib view.

 

[GeneZ]

Eschatological belief has nothing to do with ones salvation. I just present the pre-trib view.

How did we get here?

You were talking about what it is that God deals with concerning the state of an unbeliever in salvation.
I in turn, attempted to explain the mechanics of what takes place.

And, now you are telling me?
You only want to discuss eschatology?

 

[William Barton]

Where in Matthew 24:21 does it show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming?

Where in 1 Thessalonians 4 does it show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming? Where does it even show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period?

IMO:
The rapture is noted in:
o. John 14:2-3
o. 1Corinthians 15:51-53,
o. 1Thessalonisns 4:25-17
o. Revelation 11:22, 24:16

The rapture is seen in Revelation 14:14:16, as prophesied in 1Thessalonians 4:16-18. It occurs after the seventh scroll is read, declaring Jesus Lord of the earth.

The New Testament poetically organizes end-times events as:
* Trumpets (call to order)
* Scrolls (written announcement read)
* Bowls (devastation, depicted as hot oil torture)

Jesus came to earth only once. His second coming with his angels is seen in Revelation 19:11-20:6.

Jesus himself describes this time in Matthew chapter 24.

 

[CrowCross]

How did we get here?

You were talking about what it is that God deals with concerning the state of an unbeliever in salvation.
I in turn, attempted to explain the mechanics of what takes place.

And, now you are telling me?
You only want to discuss eschatology?

No.
I'm still saying God saves us....pulls us from the lake.

 

[GeneZ]

No.
I'm still saying God saves us....pulls us from the lake.

Then we will not need to be water baptized.

 

[WPM]

IMO:
The rapture is noted in:
o. John 14:2-3
o. 1Corinthians 15:51-53,
o. 1Thessalonisns 4:25-17
o. Revelation 11:22, 24:16

The rapture is seen in Revelation 14:14:16, as prophesied in 1Thessalonians 4:16-18.

The New Testament poetically organizes end-times events as:
* Trumpets (call to order)
* Scrolls (written announcement read)
* Bowls (devastation, depicted as hot oil torture)

Jesus only came to earth once. His second coming with his angels is seen in Revelation 19:11-20:6.

Jesus himself describes this time in Matthew chapter 24.

You are avoiding my questions. I will take that as an admission that neither Matthew 24:21 or 1 Thessalonians 4 shows a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming.

As for Revelation 14:14:16, this narrative reveals a vivid account of the harvest that accompanies the second coming at the end of this age. We see “the Son of man” appear upon “a white cloud” with “a golden crown” upon His head and “a sharp sickle” in His hand to reap that final crop “for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” Once again, we observe that it is at the second coming that the wicked are finally cast “into the great winepress of the wrath of God.” This the final judgment. This is the end of the world.

 

[WPM]

Eschatological belief has nothing to do with ones salvation. I just present the pre-trib view.

No, you do not. You have no biblical support. You avoid the biblical evidence.

 

[William Barton]

You are avoiding my questions. I will take that as an admission that neither Matthew 24:21 or 1 Thessalonians 4 shows a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming.

As for Revelation 14:14:16, this narrative reveals a vivid account of the harvest that accompanies the second coming at the end of this age. We see “the Son of man” appear upon “a white cloud” with “a golden crown” upon His head and “a sharp sickle” in His hand to reap that final crop “for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” Once again, we observe that it is at the second coming that the wicked are finally cast “into the great wine press of the wrath of God.” This the final judgment. This is the end of the world.

WPM explained:
<end of the world>

IMO:
"End of the world" is after the millennium (Revelation chapters 21, 22).
"Jesus on a white cloud" is the rapture.

A sickle reaps the grain at harvest time. Similarly in Rev 14:14 Jesus "reaps" believers to remove them from the coming bowl judgments.

This is symbolic ("apocalyptic") literature, and should be interpreted as such. The U.S. did something similar in World War 2, dropping leaflets for civilians, warning then ahead of time to seek cover.

 

[WPM]

WPM explained:
<end of the world>

IMO:
"End of the world" is after the millennium (Revelation chapters 21, 22).
"Jesus on a white cloud" is the rapture.

A sickle reaps the grain at harvest time. Similarly in Rev 14:14 Jesus "reaps" believers to remove them from the coming bowl judgments.

This is symbolic ("apocalyptic") literature, and should be interpreted as such. The U.S. did something similar in World War 2, dropping leaflets for civilians, warning then ahead of time to seek cover.

William, this is simply not true. You have been taught wrong.

The Bible shows the resurrection/judgment of the righteous and the resurrection of the wicked to occur on “the last (or final) day” of “the last days” when Jesus comes. Martha had a full awareness of that truth in the New Testament, when speaking of her brother Lazarus to Christ, in John 11:23-24, “Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Christ did not rebuke this understanding of the last day. In fact, Christ taught in complete agreement in John 6:39.

Jesus said in John 6:39: “all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

Resurrection day is the last day. It is the final day of history.

Jesus said in John 6:39: “every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus said in John 6:44: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus said in John 6:54: “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood (speaking spiritually and figuratively), hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Premils are unable to take Scripture after Scripture literally (and at face value) because it interferes with their mistaken opinion. They must therefore dismiss the "last day" being the "last day" because they have to squeeze thousands of additional days after history's last day. This is blatantly unbiblical. Amils are happy to let the Bible speak for itself.

Whilst, we are plainly in the last days there is an actual day coming which will conclude this scene of time and will see the final operation of God’s judgment upon sin, Satan and the wicked. That individual day is frequently known as “the last day.”

The sum total of God’s elect will be gloriously raised at this concluding final day. The resurrection of the righteous like that of the wicked is therefore for the purpose of judgment and happens on that great last or final day of salvation. That is how Paul could say with all assurance in 2 Timothy 4:8, “there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.”

Moreover, this concluding last day is not just a day of resurrection and judgment for the righteous but also for the wicked. This is confirmed by Christ in John 12:48, when He said, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

Here the wicked are judged on the same day that the righteous are judged, namely, the “last day” of the “last days.” Judgment day is therefore the last day. The term “the last day” is quoted different times in the New Testament without any form (or undoubted requirement) of qualification or any hint that there are two separate last days, as the Premillennialist would try and argue. When Christ or any other person referred to that final day in the New Testament it was always constantly in the context of its all-consummating nature, each time referring to the matter of the resurrection/judgment of both the wicked and the righteous. The references expressly refer to the last day of this age (the Gospel age) – the day that ushers in the new heaven and the new earth. There are absolutely no grounds for believing that the last day refers to a future millennium, and therefore lasts for a literal 1,000 years. Such a suggestion only emanates out of the Premillennialist camp in order to support their flawed view of Revelation 20.

Significantly, in all the above references, the wording in the original for “last day” is always identical – eschatee heemara. The Greek word eschatee used here comes from the root word eschatos, from where we get our word English eschatology, and simply means end, last, farthest or final. Eschatology is therefore the study of, or teaching on, end times or final or last things. It covers the period of redemptive history.

We can therefore safely assume from its meaning that the last day alluded to in these references relates to the end or final day of this age, the day when all the purposes of God for man in this life are finally concluded and judged. It is the last or final day when the old heavens and the old earth will finally pass away and be replaced by a new heaven and a new earth. It is an all-consummating day in which every man will give finally give account for his life.

 

[William Barton]

William, this is simply not true. You have been taught wrong.

The Bible shows the resurrection/judgment of the righteous and the resurrection of the wicked to occur on “the last (or final) day” of “the last days” when Jesus comes. Martha had a full awareness of that truth in the New Testament, when speaking of her brother Lazarus to Christ, in John 11:23-24, “Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Christ did not rebuke this understanding of the last day. In fact, Christ taught in complete agreement in John 6:39.

Jesus said in John 6:39: “all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

Resurrection day is the last day. It is the final day of history.

Jesus said in John 6:39: “every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus said in John 6:44: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus said in John 6:54: “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood (speaking spiritually and figuratively), hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Premils are unable to take Scripture after Scripture literally (and at face value) because it interferes with their mistaken opinion. They must therefore dismiss the "last day" being the "last day" because they have to squeeze thousands of additional days after history's last day. This is blatantly unbiblical. Amils are happy to let the Bible speak for itself.

Whilst, we are plainly in the last days there is an actual day coming which will conclude this scene of time and will see the final operation of God’s judgment upon sin, Satan and the wicked. That individual day is frequently known as “the last day.”

The sum total of God’s elect will be gloriously raised at this concluding final day. The resurrection of the righteous like that of the wicked is therefore for the purpose of judgment and happens on that great last or final day of salvation. That is how Paul could say with all assurance in 2 Timothy 4:8, “there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.”

Moreover, this concluding last day is not just a day of resurrection and judgment for the righteous but also for the wicked. This is confirmed by Christ in John 12:48, when He said, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

Here the wicked are judged on the same day that the righteous are judged, namely, the “last day” of the “last days.” Judgment day is therefore the last day. The term “the last day” is quoted different times in the New Testament without any form (or undoubted requirement) of qualification or any hint that there are two separate last days, as the Premillennialist would try and argue. When Christ or any other person referred to that final day in the New Testament it was always constantly in the context of its all-consummating nature, each time referring to the matter of the resurrection/judgment of both the wicked and the righteous. The references expressly refer to the last day of this age (the Gospel age) – the day that ushers in the new heaven and the new earth. There are absolutely no grounds for believing that the last day refers to a future millennium, and therefore lasts for a literal 1,000 years. Such a suggestion only emanates out of the Premillennialist camp in order to support their flawed view of Revelation 20.

Significantly, in all the above references, the wording in the original for “last day” is always identical – eschatee heemara. The Greek word eschatee used here comes from the root word eschatos, from where we get our word English eschatology, and simply means end, last, farthest or final. Eschatology is therefore the study of, or teaching on, end times or final or last things. It covers the period of redemptive history.

We can therefore safely assume from its meaning that the last day alluded to in these references relates to the end or final day of this age, the day when all the purposes of God for man in this life are finally concluded and judged. It is the last or final day when the old heavens and the old earth will finally pass away and be replaced by a new heaven and a new earth. It is an all-consummating day in which every man will give finally give account for his life.

IMO:
The rapture is mentioned several places in the New Testament. Jesus will descend from heaven and catch up believers, so they may avoid the coming bowl judgments in the Middle east (1Thessalonians 4:16-18):

"The Lord himself will descend from heaven...dead in Christ will rise first...then we who are alive..."

The final judgment of the unsaved dead occurs after the millennium, as you say. They will have 1000 years in hell to contemplate their mistake, before this judgment. Then they will be disposed, along with this entire universe.

 

[WPM]

IMO:
The rapture is mentioned several places in the New Testament. Jesus will descend from heaven and catch up believers, so they may avoid the coming bowl judgments in the Middle east (1Thessalonians 4:16-18):

"The Lord himself will descend from heaven...dead in Christ will rise first...then we who are alive..."

The final judgment of the unsaved dead occurs after the millennium, as you say. They will have 1000 years in hell to contemplate their mistake, before this judgment. Then they will be disposed, along with this entire universe.

1st of all: you ducked around my post. That is a typical Pretrib trait. They cannot acknowledge God's truth. They cannot address God's truth. They then normally transpire to divert from the obvious.

1. We have been in the Millennium since Christ came to this earth and bound the strong man.
2. As for 1 Thessalonians 4, can you show me a tribulation period after the rapture in that passage?

 

[WPM]

WPM explained:
<end of the world>

IMO:
"End of the world" is after the millennium (Revelation chapters 21, 22).
"Jesus on a white cloud" is the rapture.

A sickle reaps the grain at harvest time. Similarly in Rev 14:14 Jesus "reaps" believers to remove them from the coming bowl judgments.

This is symbolic ("apocalyptic") literature, and should be interpreted as such. The U.S. did something similar in World War 2, dropping leaflets for civilians, warning then ahead of time to seek cover.

William, this is simply not true. You have been taught wrong.

The Bible shows the resurrection/judgment of the righteous and the resurrection of the wicked to occur on “the last (or final) day” of “the last days” when Jesus comes. Martha had a full awareness of that truth in the New Testament, when speaking of her brother Lazarus to Christ, in John 11:23-24, “Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Christ did not rebuke this understanding of the last day. In fact, Christ taught in complete agreement in John 6:39.

Jesus said in John 6:39: “all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

Resurrection day is the last day. It is the final day of history.

Jesus said in John 6:39: “every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus said in John 6:44: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus said in John 6:54: “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood (speaking spiritually and figuratively), hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Premils are unable to take Scripture after Scripture literally (and at face value) because it interferes with their mistaken opinion. They must therefore dismiss the "last day" being the "last day" because they have to squeeze thousands of additional days after history's last day. This is blatantly unbiblical. Amils are happy to let the Bible speak for itself.

Whilst, we are plainly in the last days there is an actual day coming which will conclude this scene of time and will see the final operation of God’s judgment upon sin, Satan and the wicked. That individual day is frequently known as “the last day.”

The sum total of God’s elect will be gloriously raised at this concluding final day. The resurrection of the righteous like that of the wicked is therefore for the purpose of judgment and happens on that great last or final day of salvation. That is how Paul could say with all assurance in 2 Timothy 4:8, “there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.”

Moreover, this concluding last day is not just a day of resurrection and judgment for the righteous but also for the wicked. This is confirmed by Christ in John 12:48, when He said, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

Here the wicked are judged on the same day that the righteous are judged, namely, the “last day” of the “last days.” Judgment day is therefore the last day. The term “the last day” is quoted different times in the New Testament without any form (or undoubted requirement) of qualification or any hint that there are two separate last days, as the Premillennialist would try and argue. When Christ or any other person referred to that final day in the New Testament it was always constantly in the context of its all-consummating nature, each time referring to the matter of the resurrection/judgment of both the wicked and the righteous. The references expressly refer to the last day of this age (the Gospel age) – the day that ushers in the new heaven and the new earth. There are absolutely no grounds for believing that the last day refers to a future millennium, and therefore lasts for a literal 1,000 years. Such a suggestion only emanates out of the Premillennialist camp in order to support their flawed view of Revelation 20.

Significantly, in all the above references, the wording in the original for “last day” is always identical – eschatee heemara. The Greek word eschatee used here comes from the root word eschatos, from where we get our word English eschatology, and simply means end, last, farthest or final. Eschatology is therefore the study of, or teaching on, end times or final or last things. It covers the period of redemptive history.

We can therefore safely assume from its meaning that the last day alluded to in these references relates to the end or final day of this age, the day when all the purposes of God for man in this life are finally concluded and judged. It is the last or final day when the old heavens and the old earth will finally pass away and be replaced by a new heaven and a new earth. It is an all-consummating day in which every man will give finally give account for his life.

 

[William Barton]

No.
I'm still saying God saves us....pulls us from the lake.

o The punishment for sin is death. (Romans 6:23).
o. Adam sinned, we sinned, being "in Adam" genetically (1Cor 15:52).
o. God Himself paid our penalty, by the suffering of His Son (Isaiah 53:11).
o. This is the mystery of the Trinity (Matthew 28:19).
o. Man himself, made in the image of God, is triune (Genesis 1:27).
o. It's complicated.

 

[William Barton]

William, this is simply not true. You have been taught wrong.

The Bible shows the resurrection/judgment of the righteous and the resurrection of the wicked to occur on “the last (or final) day” of “the last days” when Jesus comes. Martha had a full awareness of that truth in the New Testament, when speaking of her brother Lazarus to Christ, in John 11:23-24, “Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Christ did not rebuke this understanding of the last day. In fact, Christ taught in complete agreement in John 6:39.

Jesus said in John 6:39: “all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

Resurrection day is the last day. It is the final day of history.

Jesus said in John 6:39: “every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus said in John 6:44: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus said in John 6:54: “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood (speaking spiritually and figuratively), hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Premils are unable to take Scripture after Scripture literally (and at face value) because it interferes with their mistaken opinion. They must therefore dismiss the "last day" being the "last day" because they have to squeeze thousands of additional days after history's last day. This is blatantly unbiblical. Amils are happy to let the Bible speak for itself.

Whilst, we are plainly in the last days there is an actual day coming which will conclude this scene of time and will see the final operation of God’s judgment upon sin, Satan and the wicked. That individual day is frequently known as “the last day.”

The sum total of God’s elect will be gloriously raised at this concluding final day. The resurrection of the righteous like that of the wicked is therefore for the purpose of judgment and happens on that great last or final day of salvation. That is how Paul could say with all assurance in 2 Timothy 4:8, “there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.”

Moreover, this concluding last day is not just a day of resurrection and judgment for the righteous but also for the wicked. This is confirmed by Christ in John 12:48, when He said, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

Here the wicked are judged on the same day that the righteous are judged, namely, the “last day” of the “last days.” Judgment day is therefore the last day. The term “the last day” is quoted different times in the New Testament without any form (or undoubted requirement) of qualification or any hint that there are two separate last days, as the Premillennialist would try and argue. When Christ or any other person referred to that final day in the New Testament it was always constantly in the context of its all-consummating nature, each time referring to the matter of the resurrection/judgment of both the wicked and the righteous. The references expressly refer to the last day of this age (the Gospel age) – the day that ushers in the new heaven and the new earth. There are absolutely no grounds for believing that the last day refers to a future millennium, and therefore lasts for a literal 1,000 years. Such a suggestion only emanates out of the Premillennialist camp in order to support their flawed view of Revelation 20.

Significantly, in all the above references, the wording in the original for “last day” is always identical – eschatee heemara. The Greek word eschatee used here comes from the root word eschatos, from where we get our word English eschatology, and simply means end, last, farthest or final. Eschatology is therefore the study of, or teaching on, end times or final or last things. It covers the period of redemptive history.

We can therefore safely assume from its meaning that the last day alluded to in these references relates to the end or final day of this age, the day when all the purposes of God for man in this life are finally concluded and judged. It is the last or final day when the old heavens and the old earth will finally pass away and be replaced by a new heaven and a new earth. It is an all-consummating day in which every man will give finally give account for his life.

WPM noted:
<resurrection on last day>
IMO:
The resurrection is certainly not the last day ever, since there are following days after the resurrection. Rather it is the last day of the seven trumpets, right before the bowl judgments.

 

[William Barton]

WPM noted:
<resurrection on last day>

IMO:
It is certainly not the last day ever, since there are following days. Rather it is the last day of the seven trumpets, right before the bowl judgments begin. It's necessary to remove believers to avoid those bowl judgments.

I