So, is there also a rapture in Revelation 11:12, as you previously claimed?
Pretrib fallacies
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Matthew 24:21 makes no mention of a rapture 1st. Where is it?
Where in 1 Thessalonians 4 does it show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming? Where does it even show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period?
Believing is a gift given to us...
Eph 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Yes, faith comes by hearing. Not all people have the ears to hear.
Lydia had to have her heart opened by God to hear what Paul was saying. (Acts 16:14)
Most today do not know what "works" meant back then.
Works meant doing prescribed deeds, as presented by religious men, as the means to win the approval of God.
That is why Jesus, who was being seen as a rabbi, often heard this question.
Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” Luke 18:18
The Jews had become conditioned by their corrupt religious leaders to seek works to be done to secure salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us....
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works (plural=religious system), lest anyone should boast.
Note: It says "works." Plural.
Works was a religious system of things to do to win God's approval for salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9 does not say?... Not any single work. But it says "works" (meaning the corrupt religious system).
In contrast to the corrupt system...
Jesus said that there is one work that God prescribes that will get us saved!
One work!
Here!
John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Just one sole work saves.
Not by works.
To simply believe in Jesus.
"For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Just believe!
The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas.
He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
They replied,"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your
household.” Acts 16:29-31
Note!
He asked what he must do!
It is something we must do.
........
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I was hoping you would comment on verse 8. In fact when I posted the response I was thinking about leaving verse 9 out.
There was also Lydia having her heart opened.
The question is whether the early peoples knew the earth is spherical, and lMO the answer is no.
The webpage you reference does not make a valid proof. There is no conceivable way people could have known.
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It cites "circle" and claims that equates to "sphere," which is incorrect geometry.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. Ephesians 2:8
Grace is God's supernatural power to enable believers to not walk in the flesh, to make us able to walk in the Spirit.
But for the one being saved?
Grace is God's power to suppress the flesh (the home of our depravity) to make souls free to decide what they want to believe
concerning the Gospel. Without grace doing its work, no one could believe and be saved.
For the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.
For these are opposed to one another so that the things you may want,
these things you may not do." Galatians 5:17
......
More avoidance.
Where in Matthew 24:21 does it show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming?
Where in 1 Thessalonians 4 does it show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming? Where does it even show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period?
Is there also a rapture in Revelation 11:12, as you previously claimed?
With out Grace....God stepping in....no one would be saved.
Salvation is 100% God and 0 % man.
Man does not save himself.
Man does something that reveals to God that God must save him.
IMO:
"Rapture" is an English word stemming from Latin rapere = "to seize.
Jesus was caught up, the two witnesses were caught up (Revelation 11:12), the Apostle Paul was caught up, every believer in history was caught up (Moses, Daniel, Zechariah, etc.) to heaven.
Heaven is not in the sky, it is simply another dimension/universe much like our universe. Our universe will be replaced after the millennium (we build cities, God builds universes).
I did not write the Bible, I just read it.
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Where in Matthew 24:21 does it show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming?
Where in 1 Thessalonians 4 does it show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period followed by a 3rd coming? Where does it even show a rapture of the church followed by a tribulation period?
He does. Death = spiritual death.
That is why the unregenerate person is born physically alive but has his flesh enslaving his soul, making him spiritually dead.
The power of God's grace breaks that bond of the soul's slavery to the dominance of the flesh.
When God is drawing a person? God's grace power takes the flesh and suppresses it, neutralizing its dominance over the soul.
Then the soul can consider God's truth. That is why we must be saved by grace!
For grace is God's power to enable the helpless and weak who cannot save themselves.
While in this state of "drawing grace?"
The soul under grace is then free to think free of the oppressive flesh, which would always resist God's Spirit.
While under grace from God?
God rescues the soul from the oppression that the soul had no ability to fight off.
During this time of the soul being made free?
That soul must decide what it wants to believe, or not believe, about God.
It is this phase that some mistakenly call God regenerating the person before they can believe.
But that is not regeneration yet, though similar in effect.
For if that soul rejects God's drawing out of free choice?
Then God permanently removes that grace, and the person becomes condemned at that point.
That is why it says those who do not believe are condemned already. (John 3:18)
For they rejected God before hearing the Gospel.
Regeneration finally takes place when the soul under drawing grace decides for Jesus Christ.
Then God places that person into a continuously changed state of a soul being made free to
be able to choose against the flesh effectively when walking in the Spirit.
God guarantees the continuation of that state by the sealing of the Holy Spirit.
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation;
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is
the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to
the praise of His glory." Ephesians 1:13-14
grace and peace....
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I pretty much like your post but I disagree with this statement...
The way I see it is like this...The person has drowned and is lying on the bottom of the lake....dead.
God Himself dives in and grabs the dead body....pulls it to shore...and restores life to the body.
You seem to be more in line with the scenario of a person drowning in the middle of a lake....the life guard throws out a lifesaver...and all the person has to do it grab onto it...and they are pulled to shore.
The way I see it is like this...The person has drowned and is lying on the bottom of the lake....dead.
God Himself dives in and grabs the dead body....pulls it to shore...and restores life to the body.
So if a person is already drowned?
That would mean he was first alive.
Billy Graham did not preach underwater to dead people.
"Dead people who were born dead."
So why should God raise up evangelists if that were so?
When the evangelist is done with his message?
Some will believe, and some will reject.
One cannot reject what one does not hear.
The one who rejects God, even while being spiritually dead?
They deep down inside are made to know by God....
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people,
who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them,
because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—
his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been
made, so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:18-20
That means?What the Bible calls "spiritually dead people?"
They are still without excuse!
Why?
Because God has a means to make sure that they are not the kind of dead as you keep portraying them to be.
Time to rethink....
.......
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It was not an accurate analogy.
Besides.... this post (link) refutes the position that you keep trying to find a valid analogy for.
Pretrib fallacies
Read it, please.
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