Pretrib fallacies

[Marty fox]

I suppose that Satan can read the Bible as well as any of us, and therefore he would get agitated as the time for Jesus's return draws bear. (Revelation 12:12).

But what does the previous verse 11 state?


"they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death."

 

[William Barton]

Where does it teach anywhere that the purpose of the rapture "is to spare believers from the great tribulation"?

Jesus would not bother to haul believers away (1Thessalonians 4:16-17) if it made no difference.

Jesus returns at the seventh trump, bowl judgments follow. Crunch time.

 

[Marty fox]

Jesus would not bother to haul believers away (1Thessalonians 4:16-17) if it made no difference.

Jesus returns at the seventh trump, bowl judgments follow. Crunch time.

The 7th trumpet is at the end of our world

Revelation 11

The Seventh Trumpet​

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”
16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

 

[William Barton]

But what does the previous verse 11 state?

"they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death."

I suppose the situation is this

o There is a spiritual war going on, and the enemy is not firing blanks.
o Unbelievers die, they go to hell, no second chance.
o Believers die, they go to wonderful heaven, no worries.
o "To live is Christ, to die is gain." (Philippians 1:21)

 

[GeneZ]

Right. And what is mentioned in the book of Revelation in the Bible chapters 4 through 19 reveals what we call the church.

Do you know what the Greek tells us about the believers in the Church in relation to us, being named a new creation in Christ?

We have become something totally new and unique. Unlike anyone who was alive prior to the beginning of the Church age.

 

[Marty fox]

There is a spiritual war going on, and the enemy is not firing blanks. People die unregenerant, they go to hell, Satan scores.

What has that got to do with verse 11?

Verse 11 clearly shows that the saints die for Jesus, thus they are not raptured to safety

 

[WPM]

I suppose that Satan can read the Bible as well as any of us, and therefore he would get agitated as the time for Jesus's return draws bear. (Revelation 12:12).

?

 

[marks]

I suppose that Satan can read the Bible as well as any of us, and therefore he would get agitated as the time for Jesus's return draws bear. (Revelation 12:12).

Perhaps, but Satan does not have the Holy Spirit, Who gives us understanding into His Word.

Much love!

 

[William Barton]

This proves we have been in the millennium since the binding of Satan 2000 years ago. This is a symbolic number representing a long period of time. Revelation is full of symbols.

The book of Revelation consists of a number of parallel recaps relating to the intra-Advent period. Each of these refer to different subjects, entities or aspects of God's unfolding plan during that time. That does not negate the fact that God's dealings with the beast mirrors that of Satan since Christ’s first Advent. For example, the 6th recap (Revelation 17-19) focuses in on Babylon, but also shows the destruction of all the wicked, the beast and false prophet been banished into the Lake of Fire. Satan is simply not the focus of that parallel. The focus of the last recap (Revelation 20) is God's dealing with Satan. Revelation 20 goes right back to the first resurrection (Christ). It finishes with Satan being banished to the Lake of Fire.

The fate of Satan, the beast (spirit of antichrist / mystery of iniquity) and the fallen angels (demons) are all knit together in Scripture. When Satan fell from heaven, so, did all his demons. When Satan was banished from the Garden then all evil was. They also all came under the same spiritual subjugation at the exact same time through Christ’s earthly ministry.

When Christ bound Satan’s kingdom through His life, death and resurrection then all were bound. 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20 all prove the whole demonic realm has been restrained from stopping the free-flow of the Gospel. The bruising of the head of the beast (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14) correlates with the bruising of the head of Satan 2,000 years ago through the earthly ministry of Christ (Genesis 3:15). They correspond with the spiritual binding imprisoning of Satan during the millennial period. These are figurative metaphors describing the impairment of the kingdom of darkness 2000 years ago.

When Satan was banished from heaven, so was the whole demonic realm (1/3 of the angels went with him).

Through his defeat, Satan fell from heaven (John 12:31 & Revelation 12:7-9) and is now present in the abyss (Revelation 9:1-11 & Revelation 20:3). The abyss is not a physical geographical place. After all, physical metal chains cannot hold spirits. It is a spiritual state of restraint for spirits now. Near the end, the beast will be released from his restraints and the “deadly wound” to his head will be “healed” (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14). This tells us that he too was bruised like Satan’s head through the life, death and resurrection of Christ.

Just like Satan’s power and influence were curtailed through the life, death and first resurrection of Christ, so too was the beast’s. The fate of the two mirror each other. The reason is, the beast is dependent upon the power of Satan to do his evil. The beast is his envoy or enforcer. At the end Satan will be released from his restraint to empower the beast to subjugate the Church, curtail the Gospel expanse and deceive the nations again. There will be a suppression of the Gospel in the last of the last days. This will result in deep persecution. But the darkest days in history have always been the brightest days in history.

When Satan is released before the second coming for a little season then so are the beast, and Satan's minions. Satan is promised a freedom from restraint before the second coming, as is antichrist, and every demon. Scripture shows the abyss being opened near the end whereupon Satan and his demons are released from their spiritual restraint (Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:7). This parallels with the beast also rising from the abyss (Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8). This corresponds with the restraint being taken off the mystery of iniquity in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 before Christ’s return.

Then comes the end! But Christ comes in majestic and eternal glory to overthrow the kingdom of darkness forever. The demonic realm is all killed when Satan is destroyed at the climactic second coming (Isaiah 26:19-27:1, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, Revelation 19:20, 20:9-10). Daniel 7:9-11, 2 Thessalonians 2:8 and Revelation 19:19-20 show this to be the same time when the beast is obliterated.

WPM noted:
<the demonic realm is all killed>

Demons (i e. fallen angels) do not die.