A WAR IS COMING, BUT IT WON’T BE FOUGHT ON EARTH.

[rwb]

I ask because you have Satan as always being evil ...created evil...and never not being "good". Rather than the biblical view that Satan was created good, then fell when wickedness was found in him.

I present a picture of Satan as the Bible defines him. It is the Bible, not I that tells us from the beginning Satan is a murderer and liar. Yet you insist he was once good? The Bible NEVER gives the view that Satan was once good until he fell. That doctrinal error has been promoted and defended in churches throughout the ages, but it is not from the Bible but read INTO the Bible. Many faithful Christians believe this false doctrine regarding the evil spirit, Satan, originated from the books of the writings of Enoch of Old. In his writings he shows a strange and very mystic understanding of not only Satan but the whole spiritual realm.

When we determine to study FROM what is actually written in the Bible, rather than reading mythological understanding INTO the Bible, to our surprise we discover the evil spirit called Satan is exactly what God through His Divine Providence allows Satan to be, and that is a liar and murderer. Again, to the surprise of many, sin, and evil has from the creation of man been and is being used by God for good. What we think of as bad, God uses for good, that is to eternally save His creation by grace through faith as His fallen people are born again, and through them creation will be saved.

This is why God has written to Christians verses such as: Romans 8:28 (KJV) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Through His Divine Providence God allows bad things to happen even to His people, because even through the bad things Christians experience in this life, God brings about GOOD.

I would imagine next you'll be saying...Satan wasn't the blame for his evil but it was Gods fault for creating him in an evil state..so, because of that Satan won't be punished...or something like that.

This is a gross misunderstanding of God. All that God created was created "very good", even darkness and evil that God does create are used by God that man might come to understand that in their fallen state they will die. God didn't cause A&E to sin and bring death to man. Man could have chosen to obey God and live forever. Consider this: Since man was created without knowing what is good or evil, how would mankind ever come to know the love and goodness of God or even evil? Because these emotions must be experienced for us to understand them. The only way for man to be eternally saved is in knowing that we need a Saviour.

Thinking that Satan won't be punished goes against what is plainly written!

Is there any denomination, authors, commentary, podcast??? that believes the way you do...or is this your own concept?

I study the Word to show myself approved unto God. I stopped relying on other people to teach me the things of God long ago.

1 John 2:27 (KJV) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[rwb]

You seem to be giving Satan some sort of get out of jail free card.
If God made Satan evil...for the sole purpose of evil....then why is Satan guilty?

You seem to be leaning towards being an advocate for Satan with your Satan wasn't created good but rather false theology...

You seem to be very confused! It is not I who says Satan is from the beginning EVIL! It is plainly written in the Word of God. You can believe what is written or continue in denial being led by what you have been taught and have not learned from the Bible.

 

[CrowCross]

You seem to be very confused! It is not I who says Satan is from the beginning EVIL! It is plainly written in the Word of God. You can believe what is written or continue in denial being led by what you have been taught and have not learned from the Bible.

Plainly written in the bible? Where?

If it were plainly written in the bible then we would not be arguing abut it.

What I ...and everyone else...clearly see's in the bible is that Tyrus was a type of Satan. Some of the indications is that Tyrus as well as Adam and Eve were not guardian cherubs.

 

[CrowCross]

This is a gross misunderstanding of God. All that God created was created "very good", even darkness and evil that God does create are used by God that man might come to understand that in their fallen state they will die. God didn't cause A&E to sin and bring death to man. Man could have chosen to obey God and live forever. Consider this: Since man was created without knowing what is good or evil, how would mankind ever come to know the love and goodness of God or even evil? Because these emotions must be experienced for us to understand them. The only way for man to be eternally saved is in knowing that we need a Saviour.

Evil isn't good. Period. What God created was very good...that's what my bible says.

Adam had a concept of what was good as well as what was evil. Adam knew of evil, that is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was wrong, disobedience.
Adam understood more about evil once he ate from the tree.

God doesn't create evil. Can God use evil for good? Yes. God can use mans evil acts and turn them into good.

 

[rwb]

Evil isn't good. Period. What God created was very good...that's what my bible says.

I've never said evil was good! The Bible says that God uses evil to bring about good! Is that too difficult for you?

Man sees only how evil brings about destruction. What we don't see is how God providentially works even through evil to bring about good. Can you not understand how God foresaw the crucifixion of His Son and ordained all that came to pass leading up to the cross. But God....has also ordained a way for all who are born again to partake of eternal life through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I can see how these things are simply too difficult for you to comprehend. NOTHING can separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8:35-39 (KJV) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Adam had a concept of what was good as well as what was evil. Adam knew of evil, that is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was wrong, disobedience.
Adam understood more about evil once he ate from the tree.

Adam and Eve according to what is written in Scripture had no knowledge of good or evil until they ate of the forbidden tree in the midst of the garden of Eden. Without knowing evil, how could Adam have known what it would mean for man to die? Before eating of the forbidden tree, Adam knew only that God said "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Genesis 3:5 (KJV) For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Death was unknown util it came into creation through sin. Though the one man that sin and death by sin entered creation. It is only when transgression entered the world that death over every living creation reigned (has dominion) upon the earth. As the text tells us, that began with Adam's transgression.

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

God doesn't create evil. Can God use evil for good? Yes. God can use mans evil acts and turn them into good.

You fight against the Word of God. HEAR the words God spoke to His prophet Isaiah:

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[CrowCross]

I've never said evil was good! The Bible says that God uses evil to bring about good! Is that too difficult for you?

No, not difficult at all. Actually a simple concept. Thing is you still believe that God creates this evil.
Now you may say God creates this evil by allowing evil to happen....but that's quite the same.

Man sees only how evil brings about destruction. What we don't see is how God providentially works even through evil to bring about good. Can you not understand how God foresaw the crucifixion of His Son and ordained all that came to pass leading up to the cross. But God....has also ordained a way for all who are born again to partake of eternal life through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

God knew this prior to the earth being made.

I can see how these things are simply too difficult for you to comprehend. NOTHING can separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Why the put down? Simply too difficult for me to understand? What's up with that?
Are you really saying if I don't agree with you...and you have this ability to understand...and I don't understand it the way you do...it's too difficult for me to understand????

Romans 8:35-39 (KJV) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

OSAS.

Adam and Eve according to what is written in Scripture had no knowledge of good or evil until they ate of the forbidden tree in the midst of the garden of Eden.

They had a knowledge...but not as much as they received after the fall.
I would say Adam named the animals and knew it wasn't good that he was alone. Sounds like God told Adam it wasn't good.
God also told Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...Adam as well as Eve had a concept but not the full knowledge. Eve knew she would die....which isn't good.

Without knowing evil, how could Adam have known what it would mean for man to die? Before eating of the forbidden tree, Adam knew only that God said "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Adam may not have fully understood....but he did know it wasn't good to die. How do we know that? God told him.

Genesis 3:5 (KJV) For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

As I have said...they knew of good and evil....but not to the extent when their eyes were opened.

Death was unknown util it came into creation through sin. Though the one man that sin and death by sin entered creation. It is only when transgression entered the world that death over every living creation reigned (has dominion) upon the earth. As the text tells us, that began with Adam's transgression.

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.



You fight against the Word of God. HEAR the words God spoke to His prophet Isaiah:

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Concerning Isaiah 45:7....let me ask you this...do you understand the concept of Hebrew parallelism?
I would suggest you do a search and learn about it.
In this instance the idea of light and darkness are opposite of each other....The KJV is a bad translation for the second part....sorry if you're KJV only... The second part as you understand it is that the opposite of peace is evil.
The word evil is a bad translation. That's why the other translation use the word peace and the opposite "calamity"

This is a better translation...
forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating calamity—I amYHWH, the One doing all these things!

 

[rwb]

No, not difficult at all. Actually a simple concept. Thing is you still believe that God creates this evil.
Now you may say God creates this evil by allowing evil to happen....but that's quite the same.

I didn't say it, I quoted where the Bible says it. I gave you a number of verses proving this. What I would agree with you on is how God allows/uses evil He creates to accomplish good in this world.

God knew this prior to the earth being made.

This too, I agree. The plan of God to save a people for Himself was ordained in heaven before/from creation. IOW the fall of mankind did not take God by surprise.

Why the put down? Simply too difficult for me to understand? What's up with that?
Are you really saying if I don't agree with you...and you have this ability to understand...and I don't understand it the way you do...it's too difficult for me to understand????

Please accept my apologies. This was poorly said. I don't believe you must understand what I say but rather understand what is written may be too difficult for you to understand. That doesn't apply only to you, but something every student of the Word encounters.

They had a knowledge...but not as much as they received after the fall.
I would say Adam named the animals and knew it wasn't good that he was alone. Sounds like God told Adam it wasn't good.
God also told Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...Adam as well as Eve had a concept but not the full knowledge. Eve knew she would die....which isn't good.

In this we somewhat agree. I think the difference between knowledge of good and evil before and after the fall is a natural knowledge and moral knowledge. They knew goodness, they were created very good, and they were surrounded in goodness through all that God created. I believe knowing what is morally good is what they did not possess.

OTOH evil wasn't only hidden from them naturally, but also morally. It was only after they disobeyed God that they understood evil, and for the first time felt guilt and tried to hide from God.

As I have said...they knew of good and evil....but not to the extent when their eyes were opened.

Like I've said, at the very least they knew the goodness of God they saw through creation, because creation itself declares the glory of God. But without knowing evil, knowing the goodness of God was not the means by which they could keep themselves from moral evil they did not know. They prove they did not know of moral evil when they disobeyed God. Sin and death were concepts they could only understand through experience. Mankind became morally sinful after the fall. Why? Because they had no knowledge of evil.

Concerning Isaiah 45:7....let me ask you this...do you understand the concept of Hebrew parallelism?
I would suggest you do a search and learn about it.
In this instance the idea of light and darkness are opposite of each other....The KJV is a bad translation for the second part....sorry if you're KJV only... The second part as you understand it is that the opposite of peace is evil.
The word evil is a bad translation. That's why the other translation use the word peace and the opposite "calamity"

This is a better translation...
forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating calamity—I amYHWH, the One doing all these things!

Yes, I've heard this opinion before. The problem, as I've already shown is that Is 45:7 is not the only verse where God tells us that evil that came from Him is consistently used by Him to bring about His purposes. Evil used by God is always to bring about good for His people.

Though I most often use the KJV, I am not KJV only.

Isaiah 45:7 (ASV) I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 (DBY) forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 (YLT) Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'

 

[CrowCross]

I didn't say it, I quoted where the Bible says it. I gave you a number of verses proving this. What I would agree with you on is how God allows/uses evil He creates to accomplish good in this world.

With all due respect....you didn't "prove" it very well.

This too, I agree. The plan of God to save a people for Himself was ordained in heaven before/from creation. IOW the fall of mankind did not take God by surprise.

Yes God knew. God didn't created Satan as evil from the get-go so that he would tempt Eve then Adam into falling.
God created satanic knowing Satan would fall then tempt Eve and Adam and then they would fall...causing all of their progeny to fall

Please accept my apologies. This was poorly said. I don't believe you must understand what I say but rather understand what is written may be too difficult for you to understand. That doesn't apply only to you, but something every student of the Word encounters.

Yes...so seem to be far superior than all the other biblical scholars of the past. They all got it wrong and then you finally came along and straightened out the theologians.

In this we somewhat agree. I think the difference between knowledge of good and evil before and after the fall is a natural knowledge and moral knowledge. They knew goodness, they were created very good, and they were surrounded in goodness through all that God created. I believe knowing what is morally good is what they did not possess.

They also knew what disobedience was....Evil....YET, YET, YET...not to the degree they knew after they ate from the tree.

OTOH evil wasn't only hidden from them naturally, but also morally. It was only after they disobeyed God that they understood evil, and for the first time felt guilt and tried to hide from God.

As I said....after the fall they understood more.

Like I've said, at the very least they knew the goodness of God they saw through creation, because creation itself declares the glory of God. But without knowing evil, knowing the goodness of God was not the means by which they could keep themselves from moral evil they did not know. They prove they did not know of moral evil when they disobeyed God. Sin and death were concepts they could only understand through experience. Mankind became morally sinful after the fall. Why? Because they had no knowledge of evil.

Even you the great biblical scholar doesn't know evil fully.

Yes, I've heard this opinion before. The problem, as I've already shown is that Is 45:7 is not the only verse where God tells us that evil that came from Him is consistently used by Him to bring about His purposes. Evil used by God is always to bring about good for His people.

Though I most often use the KJV, I am not KJV only.

Isaiah 45:7 (ASV) I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 (DBY) forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 (YLT) Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'

Hebrew parallelism isn't an opinion...it's a poetic style that is well know. I thought a great biblical scholar like yourself would have know that.

 

[rwb]

With all due respect....you didn't "prove" it very well.

I don't prove it; the verses themselves do. If you don't believe what is written, that's on you, not me.

Yes God knew. God didn't created Satan as evil from the get-go so that he would tempt Eve then Adam into falling.
God created satanic knowing Satan would fall then tempt Eve and Adam and then they would fall...causing all of their progeny to fall

I haven't found any verses telling us God created Satan, perhaps you can enlighten me? What I do find is God telling us He creates darkness and evil.

Yes...so seem to be far superior than all the other biblical scholars of the past. They all got it wrong and then you finally came along and straightened out the theologians.

Since you feel this way, why are you troubling yourself?

They also knew what disobedience was....Evil....YET, YET, YET...not to the degree they knew after they ate from the tree.

What they knew is that God said "do not eat" and they chose to eat anyway. Why? Because the woman listened to the voice of evil (where did it come from?), who deceived her into believing they would not die, and their eyes would be opened, and they would be as gods knowing good and evil.

Even you the great biblical scholar doesn't know evil fully.

Thank you for the compliment! I've never really considered myself to be a "great biblical scholar". Having all knowledge is not something that any man can grasp while clothed in mortal bodies. But unlike A&E before the fall, at the very least I understand that sin and death through sin was part of the plan used by God to bring about eternal life to whosoever believes in Christ.

Hebrew parallelism isn't an opinion...it's a poetic style that is well know. I thought a great biblical scholar like yourself would have know that.

I know what biblical parallelism is. You cannot prove that Is 45:7 is usage of biblical parallelism because that opinion is contradicted by several other verses and passages of Scripture. Telling us darkness and evil is not only from God but is also used by Him to bring about good.

Biblical parallelism is most often found in the Psalms & Proverbs, and is also found in the book of Job in poetic style.

 

[CrowCross]

I haven't found any verses telling us God created Satan, perhaps you can enlighten me? What I do find is God telling us He creates darkness and evil.

Then where did satan come from? An angel egg?

God didn't create evil.

I know what biblical parallelism is.

Then why don't you know what Isaiah 45:7 means and how peace and evil are not opposite words.

 

[rwb]

Then where did satan come from? An angel egg?

Is this what you believe? Statements like this show how you lack maturity and your thinking resembles the thoughts that come from the mind of a small child!

God didn't create evil.

Again, it's incredibly immature to argue against the Word of God! It's like the fool who says in his/her heart there is no God!

Then why don't you know what Isaiah 45:7 means and how peace and evil are not opposite words.

Why would I trust your view of Is 45:7 when you continue to display very little understanding of biblical doctrine? Saying peace and evil are not opposites simply confirms this. Peace = good; evil = bad! I hope that is not too difficult for you?

 

[TribulationSigns]

I will jump in here and clarify some misunderstanding about evil and Satan.

The Bible says God creates evil.

Correct! But the word evil can describe more than one thing. It can refer to wickedness and sin, or it can refer to calamity—something harmful, grievous, or bad to those who experience it. Those meanings must not be confused.

For example, God rained fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah. That was a terrible judgment for them, but God did no wickedness in bringing it. He acted righteously.

Leviticus 26:25
“And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.”

God brought the sword and pestilence upon them as judgment FOR their sins. That was evil in the sense of calamity for those who suffered it. It was not God committing sin or iniquity. He was administering justice.

God creates evil in the sense of calamity and judgment. He can bring the sword, pestilence, flood, or other disasters. If we believe Scripture is authoritative, we should have no difficulty acknowledging what it says.

What I reject is the claim that God creates sin, wickedness, lawlessness, disobedience, or unrighteousness in mankind. There is a difference between God bringing judgment upon sinful people and God being the source of their sin.

Job 2:10
“What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.”

Job was willing to receive both good and grievous suffering from God’s hand. He was not saying that God had acted wickedly. What happened to Job was bad for Job; it was not a sinful act by God.

Only that God does NOT create sin or unrighteousness in mankind. If that is what some of you mean, we have no disagreement. God brought the evil of the great flood upon the world, but the flood was not wickedness on God’s part. It was His righteous judgment upon wickedness.

Luke 6:43
“For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”

God is good. Alway have been and shall be. He does not bring forth corruption or sin.

Now with that said, He didn’t create Satan! Here again, I ask you to distinguish what Scripture says from what people assume. Where does Scripture say that God created Satan as a wicked being in heaven and then kick him out into the world to tempt mankind? I do NOT believe it says that.

Satan means adversary. I understand Satan as the spirit of opposition to God—the spirit of wickedness, deception, and disobedience manifested in mankind. It is a spirit of man. I do not support the nonsense that Satan was a supernatural fallen angel whom God created in heaven. You may disagree with my understanding, but the claim that God created a wicked Satan in heaven still needs to be established from Scripture.

How then did Satan come into existence?

Consider what happened in Eden. God made His creation good (Genesis 1:31). He gave man a command, and man disobeyed it. God did not create sin in Adam and Eve or force them to rebel. It was THEIR DESIRE for what God had forbidden led to disobedience.

James describes that progression: “When lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death” (James 1:15). Is that not what we saw in the garden? Eve saw the forbidden fruit and was DESIRED after it. It was HER OWN SPIRIT. God’s command was broken, and death followed. Therefore her spirit dies and become the spirt of Satan. It is become a spirit of ad versay within Adam and Eve, that was passed down to all of us.

This is why I say the spirit of Satan—the spirit of disobedience—arose through man’s rebellion. God did not create a sinner any more than He made Judas a thief. Scripture says Judas was a thief (John 12:6), but that does not make God the author of Judas’s theft.

So yes, God creates evil when evil means calamity or judgment. But man is responsible for the evil of sin. God’s righteous judgment and man’s wicked disobedience are two very different things. This is why we need Christ to replace our spirit with His Holy Spirit which is what make you alive! That is what the born again is about. The rest of people who have not yet sealed by the Holy Spirit, are still in bondage to their own spirit called Satan! The name simple means the spirit of disobedience... of man! Not a created being as many think!

 

[CrowCross]

I will jump in here and clarify some misunderstanding about evil and Satan.

The Bible says God creates evil.

Correct! But the word evil can describe more than one thing. It can refer to wickedness and sin, or it can refer to calamity—something harmful, grievous, or bad to those who experience it. Those meanings must not be confused.

For example, God rained fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah. That was a terrible judgment for them, but God did no wickedness in bringing it. He acted righteously.

Leviticus 26:25
“And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.”

God brought the sword and pestilence upon them as judgment FOR their sins. That was evil in the sense of calamity for those who suffered it. It was not God committing sin or iniquity. He was administering justice.

God creates evil in the sense of calamity and judgment. He can bring the sword, pestilence, flood, or other disasters. If we believe Scripture is authoritative, we should have no difficulty acknowledging what it says.

What I reject is the claim that God creates sin, wickedness, lawlessness, disobedience, or unrighteousness in mankind. There is a difference between God bringing judgment upon sinful people and God being the source of their sin.

Job 2:10
“What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.”

Job was willing to receive both good and grievous suffering from God’s hand. He was not saying that God had acted wickedly. What happened to Job was bad for Job; it was not a sinful act by God.

Only that God does NOT create sin or unrighteousness in mankind. If that is what some of you mean, we have no disagreement. God brought the evil of the great flood upon the world, but the flood was not wickedness on God’s part. It was His righteous judgment upon wickedness.

Luke 6:43
“For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”

God is good. Alway have been and shall be. He does not bring forth corruption or sin.

Now with that said, He didn’t create Satan! Here again, I ask you to distinguish what Scripture says from what people assume. Where does Scripture say that God created Satan as a wicked being in heaven and then kick him out into the world to tempt mankind? I do NOT believe it says that.

Satan means adversary. I understand Satan as the spirit of opposition to God—the spirit of wickedness, deception, and disobedience manifested in mankind. It is a spirit of man. I do not support the nonsense that Satan was a supernatural fallen angel whom God created in heaven. You may disagree with my understanding, but the claim that God created a wicked Satan in heaven still needs to be established from Scripture.

How then did Satan come into existence?

Consider what happened in Eden. God made His creation good (Genesis 1:31). He gave man a command, and man disobeyed it. God did not create sin in Adam and Eve or force them to rebel. It was THEIR DESIRE for what God had forbidden led to disobedience.

James describes that progression: “When lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death” (James 1:15). Is that not what we saw in the garden? Eve saw the forbidden fruit and was DESIRED after it. It was HER OWN SPIRIT. God’s command was broken, and death followed. Therefore her spirit dies and become the spirt of Satan. It is become a spirit of ad versay within Adam and Eve, that was passed down to all of us.

This is why I say the spirit of Satan—the spirit of disobedience—arose through man’s rebellion. God did not create a sinner any more than He made Judas a thief. Scripture says Judas was a thief (John 12:6), but that does not make God the author of Judas’s theft.

So yes, God creates evil when evil means calamity or judgment. But man is responsible for the evil of sin. God’s righteous judgment and man’s wicked disobedience are two very different things. This is why we need Christ to replace our spirit with His Holy Spirit which is what make you alive! That is what the born again is about. The rest of people who have not yet sealed by the Holy Spirit, are still in bondage to their own spirit called Satan! The name simple means the spirit of disobedience... of man! Not a created being as many think!

3 simple words....I doubt it.

Satan was a created being.

 

[rwb]

How then did Satan come into existence?

Consider what happened in Eden. God made His creation good (Genesis 1:31). He gave man a command, and man disobeyed it. God did not create sin in Adam and Eve or force them to rebel. It was THEIR DESIRE for what God had forbidden led to disobedience.

Thanks for contributing to the thread, I agree with most everything you've presented here. I have only one question:

Where did the desire to disobey God that you said was in Eve come from?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Thanks for contributing to the thread, I agree with most everything you've presented here. I have only one question:

Where did the desire to disobey God that you said was in Eve come from?

The sin was not existent in Eve UNTIL she "LOOKED" at the tree, desire its fruit, and rationalized God's law against eating it away. Then that lust BECAME sin! As God says of us, our own lusts is what lead to our own sin. Not the Bogey man, not a being sitting on our shoulders, not a Dragon floating in space, not a literal snake on the tree, but our own devils, our own lusts brings sin into existence.

James 1:12-16

• "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
• Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
• But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
• Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
• Do not err, my beloved brethren."

This is how the spirit of disobedience begun in Eve! Just as how is every man (and woman) tempted to sin? Just as God's word plainly says, he is drawn away into that of his own lust and entrapped or snared. Just as king David was. David didn't blame Satan for tempting him, He bowed the spirit and asked God for forgiveness for "His" lust unto sin.

God cursed the snake as well as Adam and Eve. The snake WITHIN them, as well as us before we were born again.

Indeed He did. Which is why the spirit of man, which is evil, cannot know the deep things of God. Because of THIS curse, it is "hidden" from him. His spirit is of the earth, earthly.

2nd Corinthians 4:4

• "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Man is accursed and has become as a Serpent, a Viper, which is why Christ called them "exactly that" many times throughout scripture! Without Christ, man is the antichrist. It is to illustrate he has that spirit of an adversary inside him! Because of that curse of God on the Serpent, unsaved man is spiritually a generation/family of serpents. Selah!

Matthew23:33

• "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

They can't, and it is because of the curse for their disobedience, start with Eve and Adam! Christ was talking to the family of man, men under the curse as a family of Serpents. If I'm wrong, prove it with Scripture.

Galatians 3:10

• "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

In a phrase, "cursed are the disobedient."

You may wondered how can this curse be applied directly to MAN.

God cursed the Serpent to be lowly unto the earth, and God calls the wicked of the world Serpents. They are those cursed, and that makes sense to me! Moreover, God said he put enmity between the woman (God's people) and the Serpent, and that's exactly where the enmity comes from, wouldn't you say? Between these "MEN" whom Christ called Serpents, and the congregation of Christ that they hated and were at enmity with. It is carnal or fleshly man who doesn't understand the things of the Spirit of God, and rails against it as they did with Christ's teachings of "spiritual" Kingdoms, Temples, Water and Bread.

Romans 8:7-8

• "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
• So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

The carnal, that is fleshly mind, refuses to be subject to the authority of the word of God, thus the spirit of disobedience rules him to violate God's laws. Absolutely the curse on the Serpent "CAN" be applied directly to man. For he is the cursed (Galatians 3:10; 2nd Peter 2:14), the son or child of perdition.

Look, the Devil is indeed a literal spirit but it is an antichrist spirit, a spirit of disobedience, a unclean spirit, a spirit of man, and there are indeed many Scriptures that support that truth. I've been telling many people all along. What the Scriptures nowhere support is that the Devil is a "supernatural being that was once an good angel in Heaven, but was cast out of heaven and now (sorta) omnipresent where he is able to inhabit reptiles and billions of unsaved people on the earth simultaneously". I think that is a misunderstanding and false teachings from Sunday school where Christians continue the old errors of assigning spiritual truths.

Therefore Satan begun within Eve when she first desired the fruit, tempted about it, and took action upon it. This is how the sin started, by her own spirit of disobedience and God named this spirit, Satan. That old serpent who was a lying spirit from the beginning.

Hope this helps.

 

[rwb]

The sin was not existent in Eve UNTIL she "LOOKED" at the tree, desire its fruit, and rationalized God's law against eating it away. Then that lust BECAME sin! As God says of us, our own lusts is what lead to our own sin. Not the Bogey man, not a being sitting on our shoulders, not a Dragon floating in space, not a literal snake on the tree, but our own devils, our own lusts brings sin into existence.

Yes, I understand this, and don't completely disagree. Except I don't believe that Eve who had no knowledge of lust could while in a state of complete innocence lust from within but lusted only after being deceived by the evil spirit. Once Eve was deceived into believing the lies of the serpent, then lust was aroused in her, and she committed sin. It was through deception that Eve transgressed against God.

1 Timothy 2:14 (KJV) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

The words of Paul come to mind. Paul speaks of blaspheming, but being forgiven because he did it in ignorance and unbelief.

1 Timothy 1:13 (KJV) Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

I believe that Eve, like Paul sinned against God in ignorance, lacking faith, which she did not know being created without moral knowledge of good and evil.

I do agree with you after the fall from the beginning of creation all of humanity became natural, fallen mankind, and sin now proceeds from the thoughts of our own heart. Why? Because until we are born again of the Spirit of Christ man is of their father the Devil and fallen mankind delights in doing his will. Unlike Eve, mankind cannot sin and claim the Devil made me do it! Man don't become sinners when we sin, man sins because we are born in sin. That is why Christ tells us "Ye must be born again!"

Genesis 6:5 (KJV) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

We're not far apart in our understanding. But I believe God when He says that He creates darkness and evil, and when He said "Let there be Light", darkness (a metaphor for evil) quickly began to try to destroy creation by bringing back the darkness that was complete until God invaded the darkness with His Light. The way evil would accomplish this was through deception, turning the hearts and minds of man away from God to serve sin. The deception would have worked well BUT God before the foundation of the world had already ordained a plan to save His creation by becoming the Saviour, giving eternal life to whosoever would believe on the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, the Son of God, Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Truth7t7]

From my study of the scriptures, the War in Heaven will end around the year 2044/2045

Big Smiles!

 

[CrowCross]

God cursed the snake as well as Adam and Eve. The snake WITHIN them, as well as us before we were born again.

The snake within them?
Was Jesus tempted by the snake within Himself while in the desert for 40 days?

 

[rwb]

The sin was not existent in Eve UNTIL she "LOOKED" at the tree, desire its fruit, and rationalized God's law against eating it away. Then that lust BECAME sin! As God says of us, our own lusts is what lead to our own sin. Not the Bogey man, not a being sitting on our shoulders, not a Dragon floating in space, not a literal snake on the tree, but our own devils, our own lusts brings sin into existence.

I find it interesting that as I was reading the Bible today, I came upon this verse that gives me further confirmation that my understanding that Eve was led astray by the serpent and not lust coming from her own heart until after the serpent had beguiled her. Here Paul links the fall of Eve to the corruption of her mind through the serpent who beguiled her mentally, causing her to doubt God.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[CrowCross]

I find it interesting that as I was reading the Bible today, I came upon this verse that gives me further confirmation that my understanding that Eve was led astray by the serpent and not lust coming from her own heart until after the serpent had beguiled her. Here Paul links the fall of Eve to the corruption of her mind through the serpent who beguiled her mentally, causing her to doubt God.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

I agree rwb. The bible tells us what happened. There was a serpent....was that serpent actually satan or possessed by satan...who knows.....but there was a real literal entity directly interacting with Eve. Causing doubt, telling half lies...
The bible doesn't present it as some "snake spirit" inside her that manifested in some way.