The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[sondring7]

Doesn't mean the gathering is not how the rapture happens. Another passage mentions a gathering and it is about the rapture.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,





They don't have to be mentioned. 2Th 2:1 doesn't mention them either but it's still speaking of the rapture.



No two passages on the same event use the same exact language. It's a logical fallacy to require that.

Opinions are not verses
List the verses where Paul teaches/hints ANGELS are used in the Rapture as they are used in the Matt gathering

 

[amigo de christo]

LOL!

First of all, who mentioned popes? I never claimed to be a pope, nor do I need anyone's authority to ask questions about Scripture. What an unusual way to enter a biblical discussion!

Now, regarding your message, you make some extraordinary claims about an “all-inclusive god,” an AI digital system that will supposedly enforce the law of its god upon the entire world, and Christians being on the verge of persecution in which we may end up "bleeding for Christ."

That's a lot of dramatic prophecy, but where is the biblical evidence?

Let's examine your claims against Scripture.

1. Where does Scripture say an AI digital system will betray Christians?

Revelation 13 describes the beast, its authority, its worship, and its mark. But where does the passage identify artificial intelligence, a digital system, or an “all-inclusive god” as the fulfillment? You cannot simply insert modern technology into prophetic imagery and then announce that God has revealed the future to you. You must demonstrate that connection from the text itself.

2. Where does Scripture teach that we are “all about to” face this specific event?

Jesus warned His disciples about tribulation (John 16:33), and Paul taught that those who desire to live godly lives in Christ will face persecution (2 Timothy 3:12). Those are biblical teachings. But neither passage establishes your specific prediction about an imminent AI-controlled world system. You are taking a general biblical warning and attaching an unproven modern scenario to it.

3. What does “the all-inclusive god” even mean biblically?

You introduce this supposed deity without defining it or showing where Scripture identifies it. If you mean a false system of worship or an idolatrous authority, then demonstrate that connection from the biblical text. Inventing a label does not establish a prophetic interpretation.

4. What does Scripture actually tell Christians to do?

Yes, we should remain faithful, even unto death (Revelation 2:10). Yes, we should not fear those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul (Matthew 10:28). And yes, we should pray and remain watchful.

But notice the difference: Those biblical commands do not validate your prediction about an impending AI digital system. A true biblical principle does not automatically make every additional claim attached to it true.

Furthermore, Jesus explicitly warned against people who make unsupported claims about the timing of end-time events. In Matthew 24:23–26, He cautioned His disciples against being misled by claims about where Christ or His coming could be found. In Acts 1:7, He told His disciples that the times and seasons were not theirs to know.

So why should anyone accept your specific prophetic warning without clear biblical evidence?

And one more thing: telling someone to “leap up and praise” or announcing that they may soon be bleeding for Christ does not make your message prophetic. Emotional intensity is not a substitute for sound biblical interpretation.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 says, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” That instruction applies to your claims, too.

If you believe God has revealed that an AI digital system will soon enforce the law of an “all-inclusive god” upon the entire world, then establish that claim from Scripture. Chapter and Verses. Not speculation. Not personal opinions. Not emotional rants. Identify the relevant passages, explain their context, and demonstrate how they lead to your conclusion.

Otherwise, please distinguish your personal speculation from what the Bible actually says.

We are commanded to be faithful to Christ, not to believe every dramatic end-times prediction someone presents as a revelation.

i see we got us all inclusive supporter . you really dont see it yet do you .
Anyone who is not inclusive but says anything DEEMED as non inclusive , OH believe me
they gonna be persecuted , even shut out . you see AI will run a digital system .
And the all inclusive god WHO IS SATAN . now deal with that fact . Okay we can continue ,
the all inclusive god who is SATAN , will enforce the law of its inclusive god .
WHO ya think that so called AI digital system was always being prepared for . BEAST buddy .
WE all got lied to by satanists claoked in eucmeincal inclusive wool . Only the sheep dont buy it .

 

[TLHKAJ]

Funny how that works. Asking someone to explain the Scripture she quoted is now classified as condescension and insults when she can't—or won't—answer the questions.

There is such a thing as asking politely without being condescending. That's what I'm trying to say.

 

[amigo de christo]

LOL!

First of all, who mentioned popes? I never claimed to be a pope, nor do I need anyone's authority to ask questions about Scripture. What an unusual way to enter a biblical discussion!

Now, regarding your message, you make some extraordinary claims about an “all-inclusive god,” an AI digital system that will supposedly enforce the law of its god upon the entire world, and Christians being on the verge of persecution in which we may end up "bleeding for Christ."

That's a lot of dramatic prophecy, but where is the biblical evidence?

Let's examine your claims against Scripture.

1. Where does Scripture say an AI digital system will betray Christians?

Revelation 13 describes the beast, its authority, its worship, and its mark. But where does the passage identify artificial intelligence, a digital system, or an “all-inclusive god” as the fulfillment? You cannot simply insert modern technology into prophetic imagery and then announce that God has revealed the future to you. You must demonstrate that connection from the text itself.

2. Where does Scripture teach that we are “all about to” face this specific event?

Jesus warned His disciples about tribulation (John 16:33), and Paul taught that those who desire to live godly lives in Christ will face persecution (2 Timothy 3:12). Those are biblical teachings. But neither passage establishes your specific prediction about an imminent AI-controlled world system. You are taking a general biblical warning and attaching an unproven modern scenario to it.

3. What does “the all-inclusive god” even mean biblically?

You introduce this supposed deity without defining it or showing where Scripture identifies it. If you mean a false system of worship or an idolatrous authority, then demonstrate that connection from the biblical text. Inventing a label does not establish a prophetic interpretation.

4. What does Scripture actually tell Christians to do?

Yes, we should remain faithful, even unto death (Revelation 2:10). Yes, we should not fear those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul (Matthew 10:28). And yes, we should pray and remain watchful.

But notice the difference: Those biblical commands do not validate your prediction about an impending AI digital system. A true biblical principle does not automatically make every additional claim attached to it true.

Furthermore, Jesus explicitly warned against people who make unsupported claims about the timing of end-time events. In Matthew 24:23–26, He cautioned His disciples against being misled by claims about where Christ or His coming could be found. In Acts 1:7, He told His disciples that the times and seasons were not theirs to know.

So why should anyone accept your specific prophetic warning without clear biblical evidence?

And one more thing: telling someone to “leap up and praise” or announcing that they may soon be bleeding for Christ does not make your message prophetic. Emotional intensity is not a substitute for sound biblical interpretation.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 says, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” That instruction applies to your claims, too.

If you believe God has revealed that an AI digital system will soon enforce the law of an “all-inclusive god” upon the entire world, then establish that claim from Scripture. Chapter and Verses. Not speculation. Not personal opinions. Not emotional rants. Identify the relevant passages, explain their context, and demonstrate how they lead to your conclusion.

Otherwise, please distinguish your personal speculation from what the Bible actually says.

We are commanded to be faithful to Christ, not to believe every dramatic end-times prediction someone presents as a revelation.

i never said you were a pope . you got all bent out shape for nothing .
No worries though i dont put anyone on ignore . but if i do see ya preaching anything connected to ecueincalism
in any shape form or fashion or supporting its incluisivty , OH you gonna be warned double quick .
But no worries i dont put people on ignore . And i dont play the victim card either .
I point to THE JESUS and not an anti christ verision of a jesus that is being sold by an eucueincal incluisive intefaith OF ANTI christ .
SO just in case you are supporing anyone to connected to intefaith or abraham peace accords .
I Highly suggest you flee that house . ITs all com ing DOWN to the ground on JESUS day .
Hope that encouraged you . Do be blessed and do praise the LORD .

 

[Davidpt]

LOL!

First of all, who mentioned popes? I never claimed to be a pope, nor do I need anyone's authority to ask questions about Scripture. What an unusual way to enter a biblical discussion!

Now, regarding your message, you make some extraordinary claims about an “all-inclusive god,” an AI digital system that will supposedly enforce the law of its god upon the entire world, and Christians being on the verge of persecution in which we may end up "bleeding for Christ."

That's a lot of dramatic prophecy, but where is the biblical evidence?

Let's examine your claims against Scripture.

1. Where does Scripture say an AI digital system will betray Christians?

Revelation 13 describes the beast, its authority, its worship, and its mark. But where does the passage identify artificial intelligence, a digital system, or an “all-inclusive god” as the fulfillment? You cannot simply insert modern technology into prophetic imagery and then announce that God has revealed the future to you. You must demonstrate that connection from the text itself.

2. Where does Scripture teach that we are “all about to” face this specific event?

Jesus warned His disciples about tribulation (John 16:33), and Paul taught that those who desire to live godly lives in Christ will face persecution (2 Timothy 3:12). Those are biblical teachings. But neither passage establishes your specific prediction about an imminent AI-controlled world system. You are taking a general biblical warning and attaching an unproven modern scenario to it.

3. What does “the all-inclusive god” even mean biblically?

You introduce this supposed deity without defining it or showing where Scripture identifies it. If you mean a false system of worship or an idolatrous authority, then demonstrate that connection from the biblical text. Inventing a label does not establish a prophetic interpretation.

4. What does Scripture actually tell Christians to do?

Yes, we should remain faithful, even unto death (Revelation 2:10). Yes, we should not fear those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul (Matthew 10:28). And yes, we should pray and remain watchful.

But notice the difference: Those biblical commands do not validate your prediction about an impending AI digital system. A true biblical principle does not automatically make every additional claim attached to it true.

Furthermore, Jesus explicitly warned against people who make unsupported claims about the timing of end-time events. In Matthew 24:23–26, He cautioned His disciples against being misled by claims about where Christ or His coming could be found. In Acts 1:7, He told His disciples that the times and seasons were not theirs to know.

So why should anyone accept your specific prophetic warning without clear biblical evidence?

And one more thing: telling someone to “leap up and praise” or announcing that they may soon be bleeding for Christ does not make your message prophetic. Emotional intensity is not a substitute for sound biblical interpretation.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 says, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” That instruction applies to your claims, too.

If you believe God has revealed that an AI digital system will soon enforce the law of an “all-inclusive god” upon the entire world, then establish that claim from Scripture. Chapter and Verses. Not speculation. Not personal opinions. Not emotional rants. Identify the relevant passages, explain their context, and demonstrate how they lead to your conclusion.

Otherwise, please distinguish your personal speculation from what the Bible actually says.

We are commanded to be faithful to Christ, not to believe every dramatic end-times prediction someone presents as a revelation.

I asked a Google AI if it can detect any AI in your rebuttal

This Google AI:

Yes, and is likely because the poster fed the opponent's argument—into an AI and asked it to generate a rebuttal.
Here is a breakdown of the specific AI footprints found in the text:

1. The "AI Rebuttal" Structure

The layout of this response follows a rigid, highly organized template that AI frequently uses when asked to "analyze and refute an argument":
• The Hook/Opening: Addresses the opponent's immediate personal jab ("who mentioned popes?") to establish context.
• The Summary: Perfectly synthesizes the opponent's complex, chaotic argument into a clean list of themes (AI digital system, all-inclusive god, bleeding for Christ).
• The Numbered List: Breaks down the counter-arguments into a clean, parallel format. Notice how almost every numbered point starts with a consistent question format ("Where does Scripture...", "What does...").
• The Closing Demand: Ends with a sharp summary, a call to action ("Chapter and Verses"), and a final philosophical mic-drop sentence.

2. Micro-Phrasing and Transition Tropes

AI models are trained on clean, academic, and professional internet text, leading to highly predictable transitional phrases. This post features several classic AI "crutch" phrases:
• "Now, regarding your message..." (Classic AI transition to a new topic).
• "But notice the difference:" (A common rhetorical pivot AI uses to highlight a logical flaw).
• "Furthermore, Jesus explicitly warned..." (AI loves formal transitions like furthermore, moreover, and in addition).
• "And one more thing:" (A classic conversational AI trope used right before the concluding paragraphs).

3. Systematic Exhaustiveness

A human writing an emotional or passionate response on a forum typically hyper-focuses on one or two points, often repeating themselves or venting.
In contrast, this text is mechanically thorough. It systematically addresses every single element of the opponent's prompt (the Pope comment, the AI system, the timing, the theology of the "all-inclusive god," and the emotional tone) without losing steam or drifting off-topic. Every single numbered point introduces a specific topic, provides perfectly cited Scripture (John 16:33, 2 Timothy 3:12, Matthew 10:28), and ties it cleanly back to the main thesis.

4. Overly Polished "Cleanliness"

There are no typos, no run-on sentences, no grammatical errors, and no awkward phrasing. Even when the tone is meant to be sharp or critical ("Not speculation. Not personal opinions."), it is delivered in perfectly balanced, dramatic fragments that feel manufactured for maximum rhetorical impact rather than typed out in a standard comment section.

 

[TribulationSigns]

There is such a thing as asking politely without being condescending. That's what I'm trying to say.

Humm... Let review what I wrote earlier:

"No, that is not how this works. I asked you a direct question because I came across your post and wanted to determine whether you actually understand the Scripture YOU chose to quote. Quoting a Bible verse is one thing; understanding its meaning and being able to explain it from Scripture is another. Selah!​

​

I have repeatedly asked you straightforward questions, yet you continue to dodge them instead of providing biblical answers. Stop stonewalling and answer the questions.​

1. What exactly is the “hour of temptation” (or trial)? Explain what it is according to Scripture.
2. Who does God promise to keep from that hour, and why?
3. What is the purpose of that hour of trial? What is it intended to accomplish?
4. Why does God say that this hour will come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth?

These are not trick questions. They are direct questions about the very Scripture you quoted. If you understand the passage, you should be able to explain it in its biblical context rather than repeatedly avoiding the questions.​

​

Let me be blunt: if you are going to quote Scripture to make a point, you should be prepared to defend your interpretation with Scripture. Get it? You can NOT simply post a verse, refuse to explain what it means, and expect others to accept your interpretation without question. This is not how it works here."​

​

The point is this: if she—or anyone else—still cannot answer these straightforward questions or explain what I am asking, then simply admit that you don't know the answer. Stop getting defensive and attacking my tone just to save face and avoid addressing the questions. Still upset? Fine, here you go…

After you're done blowing your nose, take a moment to calm down and reconsider the questions carefully. Perhaps the questions themselves will finally help you understand what I'm asking.

 

[Davidpt]

Humm... Let review what I wrote earlier:

"No, that is not how this works. I asked you a direct question because I came across your post and wanted to determine whether you actually understand the Scripture YOU chose to quote. Quoting a Bible verse is one thing; understanding its meaning and being able to explain it from Scripture is another. Selah!​

​

I have repeatedly asked you straightforward questions, yet you continue to dodge them instead of providing biblical answers. Stop stonewalling and answer the questions.​

1. What exactly is the “hour of temptation” (or trial)? Explain what it is according to Scripture.
2. Who does God promise to keep from that hour, and why?
3. What is the purpose of that hour of trial? What is it intended to accomplish?
4. Why does God say that this hour will come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth?

These are not trick questions. They are direct questions about the very Scripture you quoted. If you understand the passage, you should be able to explain it in its biblical context rather than repeatedly avoiding the questions.​

​

Let me be blunt: if you are going to quote Scripture to make a point, you should be prepared to defend your interpretation with Scripture. Get it? You can NOT simply post a verse, refuse to explain what it means, and expect others to accept your interpretation without question. This is not how it works here."​

​

The point is this: if she—or anyone else—still cannot answer these straightforward questions or explain what I am asking, then simply admit that you don't know the answer. Stop getting defensive and attacking my tone just to save face and avoid addressing the questions. Still upset? Fine, here you go…

After you're done blowing your nose, take a moment to calm down and reconsider the questions carefully. Perhaps the questions themselves will finally help you understand what I'm asking.

Was the gif at the bottom really necessary? There was nothing funny about it. It was shameful, actually.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Was the gif at the bottom really necessary? There was nothing funny about it. It was shameful, actually.

Now you are focus on the image instead of the message I wrote? Interesting.

 

[Davidpt]

Now you are focus on the image instead of the message I wrote? Interesting.

The msg was ok, the image was unnecessary. IOW, the image ruined the msg.

 

[sondring7]

The msg was ok, the image was unnecessary. IOW, the image ruined the msg.

I suspect that TS was simply returning the same respect he was given

 

[Marvelloustime]

i never said you were a pope . you got all bent out shape for nothing .
No worries though i dont put anyone on ignore . but if i do see ya preaching anything connected to ecueincalism
in any shape form or fashion or supporting its incluisivty , OH you gonna be warned double quick .
But no worries i dont put people on ignore . And i dont play the victim card either .
I point to THE JESUS and not an anti christ verision of a jesus that is being sold by an eucueincal incluisive intefaith OF ANTI christ .
SO just in case you are supporing anyone to connected to intefaith or abraham peace accords .
I Highly suggest you flee that house . ITs all com ing DOWN to the ground on JESUS day .
Hope that encouraged you . Do be blessed and do praise the LORD .

@amigo de christo

 

[CrowCross]

How many times did Jesus leave in Acts 1? Only one time? Or more than one time? Obviously, in like manner has to match how many times He left, one time in this case.

You're grasping at straws.

 

[CrowCross]

This is precisely what you have misunderstood.

have I???????????????

Christ did not "leave from Earth" on a white horse. After His ascension and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, He went forth “conquering, and to conquer” (Revelation 6:2) through the testimony of His faithful witnesses, securing His elect until they are sealed (Revelation 7:1–4).

After this, the red, black, and pale horses follow, portraying the judgments associated with the great tribulation. Then in the End, the SAME conquering Christ appears on the white horse in Revelation 19, accompanied by the Saints at the Last Trump.

You are confusing symbolic imagery with a literal departure. Read the text carefully before insisting anyone who doesn’t understand. It is YOU who do not understand.

Selah.

Whether it be literal or purely symbolic as you claim....Jesus didn't leave in the symbolic fashion that He returns with in Rev 19.

It appears to me you still misunderstand.

 

[CrowCross]

No, Paul said the Apostasy and revealing of the MoS happen before the rapture does.

No he doesn't.

7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

 

[rebuilder 454]

God says:
Revelation 3:10-12 10 “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And [I will write on him] My new name.

I think in rev 12 or so. It tells you how they overcame.
" By the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives, unto death".

In other words they got martyred

When Gods word lists 4 or 6 verses saying no saint survives the trib, and you disagree, what is going on there?

 

[rebuilder 454]

@rebuilder 454

Revelation 3:5 (NKJV) “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Revelation 7:13-17 (NKJV) 13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 “Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 “They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 “for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Yes.
They died and are in heaven DURING the trib.
Billions martyred, but postribbers omit that, and rev 13' s (four or six proclamations), that no saint " makes it through:" the trib.

Bonus info;
The innumerable number left behind after the pretrib rapture,had dirty robes that needed washing

.....which refers to the foolish saints of mat 25 left behind.

(Mat 24 has one saint taken and one saint left behind....the same ratio as mat 25 the foolish saints left behind).

 

[Davidpt]

I think in rev 12 or so. It tells you how they overcame.
" By the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives, unto death".

In other words they got martyred

When Gods word lists 4 or 6 verses saying no saint survives the trib, and you disagree, what is going on there?

It is your position, in light of Matthew 24:22, that there is not a single believer still alive on the earth when Christ returns after great tribulation? Verse 22 that I brought up says these days are cut short for the sake of the elect, thus meaning believers. Otherwise, believers would go extinct in the earth.

 

[rebuilder 454]

God says:
Revelation 3:10-12 10 “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And [I will write on him] My new name.

That verse is one of 2 escape verses by Jesus.

Do you know the other one ?

 

[rebuilder 454]

It is your position, in light of Matthew 24:22, that there is not a single believer still alive on the earth when Christ returns after great tribulation? Verse 22 that I brought up says these days are cut short for the sake of the elect, thus meaning believers. Otherwise, believers would go extinct in the earth.

Meaning the Jewish harvest of rev 14.

So obvious it is like a billboard in your front yard.

There is a crossroads to your doctrine.
Your doctrine has no clue of Paul's prophecy concerning the covenant Jews.

....which is why your doctrine makes the 144,000 something besides the vivid description, BY GOD, of who they actually are.

You should ask yourself why your teachers meddle with, and change a book that is forbidden to change.

Yes the pesky 144,000 .
They really are not who God says they are....correct

 

[rebuilder 454]

You're asking for my understanding (which, by the way, I do have), but your tone is very aggressive and condescending. I don't respond to rude demands. If you'd like to have an iron-sharpening-iron discussion let me know.

We disagree on rapture timing, but i like your posts.
Good character and thoughtful.