The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[Douggg]

No...you are just reading Jesus wrong. Your whole view is seen through the lenses of confirmation bias.

This is the post trib rapture ,it covers everybody:

Mk 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Take a look at Deuteronomy 30:4-5 about the gathering of the Jews from the nations.

Deuteronomy 30:
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

 

[rebuilder 454]

2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 make a pre-trib rapture impossible. It pinpoints a specific aspect of the Coming of Jesus, his manifestation, as the time of the ceasing of tribulation from the troublers of the church (v. 1:1) and the beginning of tribulation from God on those troublers. The tribulation of the church continues while any member of the body of Christ is still receiving tribulation on earth (1 Corinthians 12:26). Therefore, it is impossible for the rapture of the church to happen before the manifestation of Christ. That unique manifestation to all eyes, accompanied by mighty angels is indicated in Matthew 24 as occuring immediately after the great tribulation.

In summary, 2 Thess 1 tells us: (1) A rapture of the whole church would give a cessation of tribulation for the church, and therefore cannot happen before the manifestation of Christ. (2) If the cessation of tribulation is produced by the rapture, then the rapture will happen at the manifestation. If the cessation of tribulation for the church is produced by something else, then the rapture could happen later, and in fact, I believe it is later, at the 7th trumpet.

Not at all.
Pure commentary via omission.

Look at the billions martyred around rev 6 or so.
It says their number is innumerable.
That is DURING THE TRIB.

REV 13 goes on to say the AC is given power to overcome the saints
. It says all take the mark.
Every person on the planet takes the mark that are not written in the book.
BTW, To refuse the mark is death.
( yep those innumerable number ones , in heaven, duringbthe trib refused the mark...none of you guys will "make it through" the trib.
That is a fact.

You need to study the pretrib rapture verses.
You are taking opinions and do not know what the pretrib rapture doctrine says.

 

[Truth7t7]

Take a look at Deuteronomy 30:4-5 about the gathering of the Jews from the nations.

Deuteronomy 30:
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

Deuteronomy 30:4-5 above was fulfilled long ago, next

 

[ThomasDGW]

Why?
It would be folly to think he would come pretrib.
Do You realize there is a "worthiness" in that verse?
When you pray to be worthy,would not that be redundant to a postribber?
The unworthy ones in mat 25 and mat 24 (that some were left behind,) were believers.
In the postrib doctrine, that dynamic is overlooked.
If you were to pray that, it does not fit your doctrine

You WOULD be right IF the rapture is the only neans of escape. Another means of escape COULD BE death (Isaiah 57:1). Another means could be obeying Jesus' exhortations to flee (Matthew 24:16, Luke 17:31). Another means could be shelter in the 3/4 of the earth where the beast cannot kill. (Rev 6:8)

 

[Douggg]

Deuteronomy 30:4-5 above was fulfilled long ago, next

No, Deuteronomy 30:4-5 is referring to the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31. It is also in Ezekiel 39:28.

The Jews of Judaism call that gathering "the final redemption". Right now there are Jews scattered in the nations around the world.

 

[Davidpt]

The rapture is Jesus gathering.
Postribbers have Jesus staying in heaven and sending angels to gather.

In fact look at Revelation 14;14.
HELLO....Angels send Jesus.
You guys have painted yourselves into YET ANOTHER POSTRIBBER CORNER.

Just plain bizarre.

Postrib rapture is poorly thought out.

If you want to hear something bizarre. Millions or even billions are going to be raptured but it does not involve a single angel aiding in that process. Wonder why God created billions of angels to begin with if He never uses them for things like this event?

BTW, why would God use angels per Matthew 24:31 pertaining to gathering together, but wouldn't use angels pertaining to 1 Thessalonians 1:4 and that gathering together? Are Pretribbers expecting the gathering in Matthew 24:31 to be larger in scale than the one during the alleged Pretrib rapture? Therefore, since the latter isn't involving a great number of people being raptured, just a hand full of Pretribbers, angels aren't necessary. Which then begs another question.

I thought your view was that there are no saved survivors when Christ returns? That the beast kills them all. Or maybe I'm thinking of another Pretribber that holds that view in the event you don't? But that aside. Why then are angels needed after great tribulation if there is no one alive to gather? Or very few still left alive.? But before tribulation angels aren't needed even though there is a large number to gather? IOW, I was only kidding when I said just a hand full of Pretribbers. Obviously, there are more than just a hand full of Pretribbers deceived. There are millions of them deceived. Meaning all of them and if the number of Pretribbers are in the millions.

 

[Davidpt]

Jesus taught a pretrib rapture.
So you need to tell him he was wrong.

That Greek word for "earth" is used by Jesus over 78 times as "THE PLANET"

You sure you want to tell Jesus , who created all the planets, that you are smarter than him and he had limited knowledge?????

Your ai tainted doctrine says after the trib there is a global gathering.
But I fixed that circuitry error.

Reread it.
A gathering by angels in heaven.
It says "JESUS SENDS" ..Ahem, they go, AND HE STAYS
So you can change it for sure.
But why?
We can see why

The AI I used is the Google AI. You then think the Google AI is biased?

 

[Truth7t7]

No, Deuteronomy 30:4-5 is referring to the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31. It is also in Ezekiel 39:28.

The Jews of Judaism call that gathering "the final redemption". Right now there are Jews scattered in the nations around the world.

Yes you pull a few verses out of context and try to build a FALSE doctrine out of it "SAD"!

Try turning a page and reading the next chapter, Deuteronomy 31and it shows how Joshua took the land promised, after the Israelites left Egypt, this was fulfilled "Thousands" of years ago

Deuteronomy 31 King James Version​

31 And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.
2 And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the Lord hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.
3 The Lord thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the Lord hath said.
4 And the Lord shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed.
5 And the Lord shall give them up before your face, that ye may do unto them according unto all the commandments which I have commanded you.
6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
7 And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the Lord hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it.
8 And the Lord, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.
9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and unto all the elders of Israel.
10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,
11 When all Israel is come to appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.
12 Gather the people together, men and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the Lord your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:
13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the Lord your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.
14 And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.
15 And the Lord appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.
16 And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?
18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.
19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.
21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22 Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
23 And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.
24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the Lord; and how much more after my death?
28 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.

 

[ewq1938]

You WOULD be right IF the rapture is the only neans of escape. Another means of escape COULD BE death (Isaiah 57:1). Another means could be obeying Jesus' exhortations to flee (Matthew 24:16, Luke 17:31). Another means could be shelter in the 3/4 of the earth where the beast cannot kill. (Rev 6:8)

Another escape is just bearing what happens.

1Co_10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

[ThomasDGW]

Another escape is just bearing what happens.

1Co_10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Right. The fact that God is to make the way tells us that we should not place limits on what the way of escape might be.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes.
They died and are in heaven DURING the trib.
Billions martyred, but postribbers omit that, and rev 13' s (four or six proclamations), that no saint " makes it through:" the trib.

Bonus info;
The innumerable number left behind after the pretrib rapture,had dirty robes that needed washing

.....which refers to the foolish saints of mat 25 left behind.

(Mat 24 has one saint taken and one saint left behind....the same ratio as mat 25 the foolish saints left behind).

any and all who have made their bed in the inclusive love of an ecumeincal harlot and her father
WILL .
Not might
But will GO under the wrath of all mighty GOD and of the Lamb that comes down in fierce anger
upon the beast , his kingdom and all who had made their bed in a lie .
In a lie it claimed was love and in a lie it had said in the name of peace to merge all reli goins as one for world peace .
That I DO KNOW .
SO my advice is , that if any is sitting in any such place and or s upporting any such one
that is tied into this eecumeinal intefaith camp , better flee it now before its too late .

 

[amigo de christo]

You're grasping at straws.

Many are grasping at another type of straw .
Straw laden in dung and floating under the outhouse of the den of a harlot .
They know not at what they grasp nor do they even bother to sniff such straw .
Always keep in mind and always remember
that no matter how well dressed a house of harlots can appear
what cometh out of them is still dung .
Of course i speak of the house of ecumencalism all inclusive intefaith for peace .
Go digging for water in that place and i assure you , you wont find anything fit to d rink .
Just a friendly reminder for us all .

 

[amigo de christo]

Another escape is just bearing what happens.

1Co_10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

The glorious Lord will indeed do this .
But let none of us make the mistake to think this means one will not face persecution and even death .
Just peek around at all those who h ave been killed for the faith t hroughout all the ages .
Even now many are killed o verseas and in lands of nations .
Guess what . ITS COMING here too and world wide .
Oh yes . and it will be enforced upon this world by means of a h ighly powerful and
fully functional AI led digital system . That was always being prepared
not for the peoples , not for the nations , but for the beast .
And it will enforce worship of its all inclusive god who has sold its love by means of an ecumeincal h arlot
who cried to all and said this is the way to attain peace in Jerusalem and in the wo rld .
WE were all SET UP . And now many are buying into the lie of anti christ beleiving its the way to attain
peace n safety .
Well for those who sat under it , THEIR TIME runs OUT ON JESUS DAY .
As for the sheep who resist it , TRIBULATION COMETH .
When once the ecumeinal phase becometh the CRUSADE phase .

 

[amigo de christo]

Right. The fact that God is to make the way tells us that we should not place limits on what the way of escape might be.

Nor does it mean one wont face persecution and even death FOR JESUS sake .
Blood cometh .
Just as it has upon christains since the days of the apostels and just as it has throughout all ages .
Many have bled for Jesus .
Have you seen it thomas . Have you seen what christendom has made its bed with yet .
A HARLOT . who by means of sensual all inclusive judge Not love
HAS LED THEM TO THE LIE OF ANTI CHRIST and they beleive its the solution to attain the peace
of Jerusalem and of the world .
Soon the ecumeincal lets be one phase that hollered judge not God is love to all the sheep who were
trying to warn and correct sin and errors ,
BECOMETH THE CRUSADE phase of JOIN OR DIE . and all of it enforced by a poweful AI led digital system
who will enforce the law of its inclusive god , satan , upon the world .
And the image can speak and can cause the roundups and d eath of t hose who conformed NOT
to what this world believed was God , was love and was His plan f or peace .
YET IT WAS SATAN IN WOOL all along . Better to suffer and die for CHRIST
than to live unto anti ch rist . cause if this can happen to those who follow Christ ,
HOW MUCH SORER a punishment for those who
said AWAY with the biblical JESUS give us this all inclusive one and god . GONNA BE HORRENDOUS
for them all ON JESUS day . SO thanks f or you reminder , and i pray YOU HEED MINE
and get all OUTTA ANYTHING ecumeincal inclusive interfaith
and may none look back lest they be tempted to return to that wicked house .

 

[rebuilder 454]

Right. The fact that God is to make the way tells us that we should not place limits on what the way of escape might be.

It is a no brainer.
Escaping the trib is clearly written like it means and says.
Escaping temptation means Escaping temptation

All that "reading into it", to change the bible is flat out ridiculous.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Another escape is just bearing what happens.

1Co_10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Correct

Postribbers will either take the mark or be executed.
So beheading, to you guys, is, " escaping the trib"
Yes, you may very well "escape" the trib.

I am ok with your new translation.
It has indirect truth in your Bible changes.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The AI I used is the Google AI. You then think the Google AI is biased?

Really???
You thing AI is not a program of opinions?

 

[rebuilder 454]

If you want to hear something bizarre. Millions or even billions are going to be raptured but it does not involve a single angel aiding in that process. Wonder why God created billions of angels to begin with if He never uses them for things like this event?

BTW, why would God use angels per Matthew 24:31 pertaining to gathering together, but wouldn't use angels pertaining to 1 Thessalonians 1:4 and that gathering together? Are Pretribbers expecting the gathering in Matthew 24:31 to be larger in scale than the one during the alleged Pretrib rapture? Therefore, since the latter isn't involving a great number of people being raptured, just a hand full of Pretribbers, angels aren't necessary. Which then begs another question.

I thought your view was that there are no saved survivors when Christ returns? That the beast kills them all. Or maybe I'm thinking of another Pretribber that holds that view in the event you don't? But that aside. Why then are angels needed after great tribulation if there is no one alive to gather? Or very few still left alive.? But before tribulation angels aren't needed even though there is a large number to gather? IOW, I was only kidding when I said just a hand full of Pretribbers. Obviously, there are more than just a hand full of Pretribbers deceived. There are millions of them deceived. Meaning all of them and if the number of Pretribbers are in the millions.

What s bizarre is that you spoke all those sentences believing there is only one coming.

Once your "one coming" deal is exposed as false, we can see what heaven is saying.

Tell me, is revealation 14 ;14,15 gathering during the 7yr trib, the same exact thing as rev 19 coming on millions of horses?
Why is one during the 7yr trib, and one after it?

What a terrible dilemma you guys are trying to defend.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You WOULD be right IF the rapture is the only neans of escape. Another means of escape COULD BE death (Isaiah 57:1). Another means could be obeying Jesus' exhortations to flee (Matthew 24:16, Luke 17:31). Another means could be shelter in the 3/4 of the earth where the beast cannot kill. (Rev 6:8)

That would be like saying the baby Jesus escaped Herod by dying.

 

[CrowCross]

Many are grasping at another type of straw .
Straw laden in dung and floating under the outhouse of the den of a harlot .
They know not at what they grasp nor do they even bother to sniff such straw .
Always keep in mind and always remember
that no matter how well dressed a house of harlots can appear
what cometh out of them is still dung .
Of course i speak of the house of ecumencalism all inclusive intefaith for peace .
Go digging for water in that place and i assure you , you wont find anything fit to d rink .
Just a friendly reminder for us all .

I think you might like this guy. Jamie Walden.