Why would you want to identify me with the antichrist because I have shown a biblical rapture from earth that is pre-trib?
Stop Believing the "Any Moment" Myth
- Thread starter Sel@h
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Gathered to where?
Is this what is mentioned in Rev 20:4...They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
The elephant in the room, is that passage of scripture is open-ended. If I read it as literal, as you quoted in various translations, it simply says a departure and then the Antichrist is revealed.
That's all it says.
So every time they say "from the faith", they are going down that Avenue.
And every time I say departure from the Earth in the rapture, I'm going down that Avenue.
As for me personally, it makes absolutely no difference.
Because we are in the apostasy, from the faith right now, (if i'm saying "falling away from the faith.")
So either way it is POINTING TO the pretrib rapture.
One of the biggest hurdles that a postribber has is trying to explain away so many passages that are simply a no-brainer.
But their doctrine has them doing all kinds of weird cunning dances and reframing of scripture.
As far as eq saying "from the faith to the AC", that is making a "double implication".
It is nowhere in there , nor implied.
He inserted it to save a poorly thought out theory.
The bible is worded very precisely.
The only way I can say "from the faith to the Antichrist" is if the Bible said that.
So he changed 2 dynamics in one sentence.
Why didn't God see his own "mistake"?
God could have easily inserted "from the faith", and "to". ( the AC) .
I think God wanted truth to be "hidden" in eschatology.
Hidden in plain sight.
We own end times.
Our verses that we put on the table are for the most part reframed by them.
But in their own doctrine those verses are 100% omitted.
IOW we study way way past them.
Their doctrine HINGES on mat 24 cunning reprint, and the biggie, of, "one coming"
Once the false and ridiculous,"one coming" is blown apart, THEIR ENTIRE HOUSE OF CARDS FAILS.
They built a doctrine on an assumption.
A house of cards poorly thought out.
You know what they did?
They went to men.
Ancient dead men in graves. ( the church fathers with limited knowledge and revelation), and just took THEIR DOCTRINE , parked their bibles, and with no in depth study, lazily parked themselves there.
Knowledge is their enemy.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
No.
Don't fall for that
It says they LIVED.( literally "live" in the greek)
NOT "CAME TO LIFE"( implying a resurrection postrib and premill)
There is no resurrection postrib / premil.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Can any postribbers unpack Rev 14?
(That gathering of 144k firstfruit jews and the subsequent jewish harvest during the trib?)
I know in the past you guys stumbled all over it.
Any changes yet into truth?
(That gathering of 144k firstfruit jews and the subsequent jewish harvest during the trib?)
I know in the past you guys stumbled all over it.
Any changes yet into truth?
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Because they see, not only your doctrine, but you yourself as, from satan!
Their doctrine is promoted, in and by, evil.
That is why they mock, belittle and even curse us to hell.
They try to be nice at first, then when their deal is shredded, and they sit in the ashes of their false doctrine burned to the ground, they go postal.
I always wondered why the post tribbers say Satan would want us to believe in a pre-trib rapture....
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Yep.
It is beyond ridiculous.
Eschatology is totally separate from being born again or not
I agree...the post-tribbers seem to wrap salvation into believing their belief.
- Jul 11, 2015
- 9,208
- 1,894
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
Posttrib believs the Pretrib rapture is not scriptural and could possibly lead people to a false christ using deceptive miracles which could be counterfeit events like a false rapture which could be where the Apostasy comes from that Paul warned about. No coincidence that Pretrib teaches the Apostasy is the Rapture.
If hypothetically someone taught something clearly wrong like going to the LOF was the rapture, wouldn't you say something?
I see it this way....the post tribbers see the 2nd coming as a future event. Many of them believe we are somewhere in the tribulation or the 1000 year reign (that really isn't a 1,000 years) or perhaps in Satans little season and waiting for Jesus to return.
When the following happens they will think it's Jesus..." 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer." They will say this rider is the same rider mentioned here...Rev 19:11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse!
God promises:
Revelation 3:10-12 (KJV) 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.
Revelation 3:10-12 (KJV) 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.
There are some who say scripture only applies to those who belonged to the Philadelphia church when Revelation was written...but...the scripture say "which will come upon all the world'. All the world is a much, much larger context than a local Philadelphia Church event.
The passage also mentions those that dwell upon the earth.
The verse also mentions the New Jerusalem that will come down and that didn't happen when Revelations was written.
Keep them from the hour of temptation is one more support for a pre-trib rapture of the Bride of Christ.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
To meet Christ in the air. Hello? Where else?
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
No. That is talking about the souls of the dead in Christ reigning with Christ in heaven. Other translations of verse 4 say "they lived and reigned with Christ...". It is not saying they are bodily resurrected at that time. Verse 6 talks about having part in the first resurrection and that the second death has no power over those who have had part in the first resurrection. Other scripture says that Christ's resurrection itself was the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Corinthians 15:20,23). So, it's talking about having part spiritually in His resurrection. Do you think that someone has to be bodily resurrected in order for the second death to have no power over them? Does the second death have power over you right now? Does the second death have power over the dead in Christ? No, right? Think about it.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
It's not talking about taken them off of the earth to avoid the hour of tempation. That would contradict what Jesus prayed about here....
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Revelation 3:10 is talking about being protected from temptation and evil while still on the earth, not about being taken off of the earth.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
A vast majority of post-tribbers, including me, agree with that. But, you are too ignorant to understand this, so you assume all post-tribs claim that having the correct eschatology is a requirement for salvation. Not true.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Absolutely false. A vast majority of post-tribbers do not believe that. Educate yourself instead of lumping all post-tribs together just based on the opinions of a couple ignorant fools.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Yes, Revelation 14:14-20 mirrors 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4 which indicates that at the same time the rapture of believers in the church occurs, unbelievers will be destroyed. That will occur when Jesus comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night.
LOL. You are 100% clueless. It's not anything to stumble over at all. Your understanding of the passage is laughable, at best. Nowhere does Revelation 14:14-20 say anything about a gathering only "of 144k firstfruit jews". Total nonsense. It's a depiction of the one and only gathering that will occur at the one and only future coming of Christ.
Revelation 3:10-12 (KJV) 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.
All these promises in Rev. 3:10-12 are made to the faithful Christians all over the world who endure to the very end, who will never bend a knee to the Antichrist when he appears.
Similar threads
