Stop Believing the "Any Moment" Myth

[shepherdsword]

I have listened to hours of postrib teachers.
I know that doctrine better than most.
I also know what drives it.

That passage you posted is one of 2 escape verses , BY JESUS.
Do you know the other one?

In fact, can any postribber quote both escape verses?

( cue postribbers scrambling to try and see where they are)

The other one is
Lk 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

I know because I pray it everyday. However, neither this verse or Rev 3 is speaking about a rapture. You are reading that into the text. There are many ways to escape judgement. Consider passover and the rest of the plagues. There was death and destruction all around but the children of Israel was unharmed.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The other one is
Lk 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

I know because I pray it everyday. However, neither this verse or Rev 3 is speaking about a rapture. You are reading that into the text. There are many ways to escape judgement. Consider passover and the rest of the plagues. There was death and destruction all around but the children of Israel was unharmed.

Now read rev 13.
It is 100% against your misplaced prayer of "lord see me through the trib"
(Exactly opposite.)
Read rev 13, and see not only are you not protected, but all left behinders die who refuse the mark.

See that?
I don't think Jesus played games and fooled you guys into a false "going through the trib" dynamic.
So it is solid exegesis that the 2 escape verses are exactly that...2 ESCAPE VERSES.

LOT ESCAPED.
THE BABY JESUS ESCAPED.
THE 5 WISE VIRGINS ESCAPE.
THE "ONE TAKEN" IN MAT 24 ESCAPES..
1 THES 4 HAS THE CHURCH ESCAPING

 

[rebuilder 454]

Revelation 3:10-12 (KJV) 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.

All these promises in Rev. 3:10-12 are made to the faithful Christians all over the world who endure to the very end, who will never bend a knee to the Antichrist when he appears.

You do realize protection is lifted during the trib, and power is given the AC to martyr all believers refusing the mark?

There is no " making it through the trib"

 

[Sel@h]

"keep you out of...".

Hi, guy. Yes, because they will endure until the very end:

Matthew 24:13: “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”

James 1:12: “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life…”

Hebrews 10:36: “For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.”

Revelation 2:10: “Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.”

2 Timothy 4:7: “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith.”

Galatians 6:9: “And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”

Romans 5:3–4: “Tribulation worketh patience; and patience, experience; and experience, hope.”

 

[shepherdsword]

Now read rev 13.
It is 100% against your misplaced prayer of "lord see me through the trib"
(Exactly opposite.)
Read rev 13, and see not only are you not protected, but all left behinders die who refuse the mark.

See that?
I don't think Jesus played games and fooled you guys into a false "going through the trib" dynamic.
So it is solid exegesis that the 2 escape verses are exactly that...2 ESCAPE VERSES.

LOT ESCAPED.
THE BABY JESUS ESCAPED.
THE 5 WISE VIRGINS ESCAPE.
THE "ONE TAKEN" IN MAT 24 ESCAPES..
1 THES 4 HAS THE CHURCH ESCAPING

There are christians today in the 10/40 window who are suffering as much as a human being possibly can. Tell them how they are going to be raptured and escape. To them, they are already in the great tribulation.

 

[Sel@h]

You do realize protection is lifted during the trib, and power is given the AC to martyr all believers refusing the mark?

There is no " making it through the trib"

Do you know what the mark is?

….be back soon.

 

[CrowCross]

There is no pre-trib rapture. What will happen at that time when the rapture occurs at Christ's coming "after the tribulation of those days" is that Jesus will destroy all unbelievers just as happened with the flood in Noah's day (Matthew 24:29-39). Paul taught the same thing (1 Thess 4:14-5:3, 2 Thess 1:7-10). After that the judgment will occur, according to Matthew 25:31-46.

If you're a christian I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when the pre-trib rapture occurs.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes, it is. The wording is very similar. What do you think John 17:15 is about? Clearly, Jesus is talking there about being kept from (tereo ek) evil in the sense of being protected from it while still on the earth. How is that any different from the context of Revelation 3:10 that talks about being kept from (tereo ek) the hour of temptation?

Rev 13:7.

 

[marks]

It's a departure from the faith as apostasia means. It isn't departure from the Earth simply because apostasia cannot mean that. You likely know this but just adding my 2 cents.

Actually apostasia absolutely CAN mean that, it's the foremost meaning to the word, apo, away from, stasia, standing, "away from standing", that is, depart.

In Classical Greek apostasia was the standard noun to refer to departure. Aristophanes' play "The Birds" uses apostasia in reference to the men's plan to depart the earth to go live in the bird city in the sky. Interesting, no? He was the Shakespeare of the day, if you will. His plays were produced for hundreds of years.

Much love!

 

[shepherdsword]

Actually apostasia absolutely CAN mean that, it's the foremost meaning to the word, apo, away from, stasia, standing, "away from standing", that is, depart.

In Classical Greek apostasia was the standard noun to refer to departure. Aristophanes' play "The Birds" uses apostasia in reference to the men's plan to depart the earth to go live in the bird city in the sky. Interesting, no? He was the Shakespeare of the day, if you will. His plays were produced for hundreds of years.

Much love!

Most of the time it is used in the ATTIC for a "revolt" or "defection" It is only used twice in the NT. In Acts it was used by those who accused Paul of teaching a falling away from the faith of Moses. The context of 2Th 2:3 favors a falling away from the faith as well.

Classical author	Passage	Usage
Herodotus	Histories 3.128	Defection or revolt from someone
Herodotus	Histories 5.113	The revolt of the Cypriots
Herodotus	Histories 7.4	Egypt's revolt
Thucydides	History of the Peloponnesian War 5.81	Defection from an alliance
Euripides	Hippolytus 277	Departure from life — death
Plato	Laws 6.777c	Revolt or defection

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you're a christian I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when the pre-trib rapture occurs.

If I'm a Christian? LOL. There is no such thing as the imaginary pre-trib rapture, so I would die of shock if such a thing ever occurred. Jesus made it clear that we will be gathered "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29-31). I will take His word over yours every time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev 13:7.

Don't just post a verse reference with no commentary. Why did you post that verse? It certainly doesn't refute what I said.

 

[marks]

Most of the time it is used in the ATTIC for a "revolt" or "defection" It is only used twice in the NT. In Acts it was used by those who accused Paul of teaching a falling away from the faith of Moses. The context of 2Th 2:3 favors a falling away from the faith.

Classical author	Passage	Usage
Herodotus	Histories 3.128	Defection or revolt from someone
Herodotus	Histories 5.113	The revolt of the Cypriots
Herodotus	Histories 7.4	Egypt's revolt
Thucydides	History of the Peloponnesian War 5.81	Defection from an alliance
Euripides	Hippolytus 277	Departure from life — death
Plato	Laws 6.777c	Revolt or defection

Yes, in acts, teaching a departure from the teachings of Moses.

In Thessalonians faith is not named. Simply the apostasia, without further definition.

Remember also, Paul encouraged them to remember what Paul had taught them when he was with them. We know that Paul would often reinforce his personal teachings with letters following. So I'm curious . . . was there a departure from the faith taught previously to them by Paul? Perhaps a different departure? What do we find in his first letter to them? There IS a departure, but not from the faith, rather into the sky.

In Classical Greek, this was departure. By the time of the NT writing, it was mostly used for rebellion. Your chart above shows the mixed use. So what is the actual reason that we should focus solely on a "spiritual departure"? You said the context favors departure from the faith. How so?

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You do realize protection is lifted during the trib, and power is given the AC to martyr all believers refusing the mark?

There is no " making it through the trib"

It never says that literally all believers will be martyred. That comes from your imagination. How can you think that no believers will be alive when Jesus returns? That blatantly contradicts what Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17. He referred to those who are alive and remain until the coming of Christ. Remain after what? The tribulation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Do you know what the mark is?

….be back soon.

Similar to a tattoo, with a chip.
It is already available in animals in a crude form.
Undoubtedly it will carry the image of the fake Christ.
Might have a slogan similar to "my all for him"
IOW to make it a form of worship.

Soon to come in an internment camp for every city.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Actually apostasia absolutely CAN mean that, it's the foremost meaning to the word, apo, away from, stasia, standing, "away from standing", that is, depart.

In Classical Greek apostasia was the standard noun to refer to departure. Aristophanes' play "The Birds" uses apostasia in reference to the men's plan to depart the earth to go live in the bird city in the sky. Interesting, no? He was the Shakespeare of the day, if you will. His plays were produced for hundreds of years.

Much love!

Be careful using a word defined as "departure" in the context of departure.
It can only mean "backsliding."
App = back
Ostasy= sliding.
Well, my copy of the postribber workbook, that is never wrong ....said so.

 

[shepherdsword]

Yes, in acts, teaching a departure from the teachings of Moses.

In Thessalonians faith is not named. Simply the apostasia, without further definition.

Remember also, Paul encouraged them to remember what Paul had taught them when he was with them. We know that Paul would often reinforce his personal teachings with letters following. So I'm curious . . . was there a departure from the faith taught previously to them by Paul? Perhaps a different departure? What do we find in his first letter to them? There IS a departure, but not from the faith, rather into the sky.

In Classical Greek, this was departure. By the time of the NT writing, it was mostly used for rebellion. Your chart above shows the mixed use. So what is the actual reason that we should focus solely on a "spiritual departure"? You said the context favors departure from the faith. How so?

Much love!

We have to backup to 1Th 4 to see the complete context and see what day Paul was referring to:

1 Th 4:14-17
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It's simple. Let's look at the verse and break it down:

2 Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,(What day? Why the day he spoke of in 1Th 4:17)
except there come a falling away first,( This cannot be the rapture because Paul said that the Lord will not descend UNTIL this event happens) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (The man who will lead this revolt)

Paul is saying that the rapture will not occur until AFTER the falling away and the unveiling of the man of sin.

 

[marks]

Be careful using a word defined as "departure" in the context of departure.
It can only mean "backsliding."
App = back
Ostasy= sliding.
Well, my copy of the postribber workbook, that is never wrong ....said so.

If I read the two letters back to back . . .

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (KJV)
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia/departure, "away from standing") first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Much love!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Hi, guy. Yes, because they will endure until the very end:

Matthew 24:13: “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”

James 1:12: “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life…”

Hebrews 10:36: “For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.”

Revelation 2:10: “Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.”

2 Timothy 4:7: “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith.”

Galatians 6:9: “And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”

Romans 5:3–4: “Tribulation worketh patience; and patience, experience; and experience, hope.”

Here is your hurdle

You are saying that going through the trib will save you.

None of those passages are saying that.

Think about it, all the believers, now in graves, did not go through the gt.

So they did not endure till the end?

That challenge is for our general walk.
Obviously so.
It Has zero to do with the rapture.

 

[rebuilder 454]

If I read the two letters back to back . . .

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (KJV)
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia/departure, "away from standing") first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Much love!

Exactly.
I was being sarcastic