Stop Believing the "Any Moment" Myth

[shepherdsword]

Anything but pretrib would have Jesus confused, as it was HE THAT TAUGHT a pretrib rapture and even used the last supper dialoge to point to the future, gathering in heaven...pssst, remember postribber doctrine says only one post wrath coming, and NO BELIEVER EVER goes to heaven.
Not to mention the 2 escape verses BY JESUS...No matter how you twist it, Jesus was not confused.

Whew, what a convoluted theory postribbers cling to..

Jesus never taught a pre0trib rapture. Post his teaching if you can. Let's see some scripture. What he taught was that he would return AFTER the tribulation.

Mt 24:29-30
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes. Basically, being on Satan’s side in your work and thoughts.

The Greek uses OR though, not and. Seems odd that the mark will be on the forehead OR the right hand if those things are thoughts and deeds.

 

[marks]

Jesus never taught a pre0trib rapture. Post his teaching if you can.

Jesus never taught on the rapture at all, as I see it. The church was a musterion revealed through Paul, not Jesus.

The church caught up to Jesus, and the regathering of Israel back to their land are fully separate events.

Much love!

 

[CrowCross]

Yes. Basically, being on Satan’s side in your work and thoughts.

It's more than that.

I tried to show you.

 

[Sel@h]

The Greek uses OR though, not and. Seems odd that the mark will be on the forehead OR the right hand if those things are thoughts and deeds.

Isn’t it both? …because those who are deceived and therefore believe the lies that are spewing forth like a flood out of Satan’s mouth (“forehead”) will end up doing his work (“hands”).

The “forehead” and “hands” are metaphors.

 

[Sel@h]

As well as literal descriptions.

Is Rev 8 symbolic?

Some of it is, some of it is not.

….just my opinion.

 

[William Barton]

that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

This implies that the temple is rebuilt before the return of Jesus. Likewise, the Bible says: "The Lord will come suddenly to his temple." (Malachi 3:1)

No temple, no return.

The Jews have been training priests, breeding red heifers, and collecting the various things necessary to rebuild their temple.

 

[ewq1938]

Isn’t it both?

Not according to the Greek used.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

G2228
ἤ
ē
Thayer Definition:
1) either, or, than
Part of Speech: particle
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary particle of distinction between two connected terms

…because those who are deceived and therefore believe the lies that are spewing forth like a flood out of Satan’s mouth (“forehead”) will end up doing his work (“hands”).

The “forehead” and “hands” are metaphors.

It's a common thing people say but how would that assure people not marked couldnm't buy or sell? The other word used is EPI, which means on or upon never does it mean "in".

So, the mark is ON the forehead OR the right hand.

 

[KUWN]

I don’t see the word “departure.” Wow!

That is because you are not reading the Greek NT.

 

[Davy]

That is because you are not reading the Greek NT.

You just made up a lie.

There is NO Greek word for 'departure' in the 2 Thessalonians 2:3 verse...

2 Thess 2:3
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
KJV

Some among the false Pre-trib Rapture crowd like to replace that above "falling away" phrase with the idea of a 'departure' of the Church, like a rapture to Christ prior to the trib. There is no such Greek term pointing to the idea of a rapture departure in that verse.

The Greek word that is there, and for that KJV word "away" since the word "falling" was added by the KJV translators, is the Greek word apostasia which is where our English word apostasy comes from.


NT:646
apostasia (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah); feminine of the same as NT:647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ["apostasy"]:
KJV - falling away, forsake.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Apostle Paul gives examples of an apostate... who falls away from the Faith and thus the Truth...

1 Tim 4:1-2
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
KJV

2 Tim 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV

 

[CrowCross]

Some of it is, some of it is not.

….just my opinion.

There is nothing wrong with an opinion.

 

[PinSeeker]

This will fall on a lot of deaf ears, but a word to the wise... thus saith the Lord:

"You save a humble people, but Your eyes are on the haughty to bring them down" (2 Samuel 22:28).

"For You save a humble people, but the haughty eyes You bring down" (Psalm 18:27).​

"'...do not lift up your horn on high, or speak with haughty neck’” (Psalm 75:5).​

"Whoever slanders his neighbor secretly I will destroy. Whoever has a haughty look and an arrogant heart I will not endure" (Psalm 101:5)..​

"For though the Lord is high, He regards the lowly, but the haughty He knows from afar" (Psalm 138:6).​

"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" (Proverbs 16:18).​

"Before destruction a man’s heart is haughty, but humility comes before honor" (Proverbs 18:12).​

"Haughty eyes and a proud heart, the lamp of the wicked, are sin" (Proverbs 21:4).​

“'Scoffer' is the name of the arrogant, haughty man who acts with arrogant pride" (Proverbs 21:24). Couple that with "Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers... The wicked are not so, but are like chaff that the wind drives away... the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish" (Psalm 1).​

"The haughty looks of man shall be brought low, and the lofty pride of men shall be humbled, and the Lord alone will be exalted in that day..." (Isaiah 2:11)​

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven... Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth... Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy... Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God... Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God..." (Jesus, Matthew 5).​

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"...from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts... slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person" (Jesus, Mark 7).​

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"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends... For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away... Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love" (Paul, 1 Corinthians 13).​

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"...see that you excel in this act of grace also. I say this not as a command, but to prove by the earnestness of others that your love also is genuine. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you by His poverty might become rich..." (Paul, 2 Corinthians 8).​

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"The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion..." (Paul, 1 Timothy 1).​

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"...the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths" (Paul, 2 Timothy 4).​

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"What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions are at war within you? ...you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil" (James, James 4).​

Grace and peace to all.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Unless the Bible actually gives this information, your interpretation lacks Scriptural authority. A mark on the hand or forehead is a mark on the hand or forehead unless the Bible says differently. Claiming "the book has lots of symbols" has no bearing on this. Either the Bible teaches this or it does not.

To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing in Scripture that modifies these passages to refer to anything other than an actual mark on the hand or forehead, just like in the Thief in the Night movies.

Much love!

Really? Is this how you read the mark as literal narrative? Perhaps you will need to explain if the beasts will be literal and coming out of the sea and earth literally? Good luck.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The book of Revelation uses a lot of metaphors and symbolism.

Then buying and selling would need to be metaphors , as well as mark, forehead, and hand.

I am sticking with what it says.

 

[Sel@h]

Then buying and selling would need to be metaphors , as well as mark, forehead, and hand.

I am sticking with what it says.

me too