The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[RandyDawson]

....and note your "tribulations" centered doctrine has a non comforting "you all die brutal deaths" message of doom and gloom.

Who are you comforting in your message?

Yeah, what happened to "Wherefore comfort one another with these words?"

they are saying that half the world's population is born again, and half wicked.

Jesus said few are actually saved

Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Sel@h]

She does not know the purpose of the trib, the purpose of the rapture, or anything concerning the bride and groom.

Ask her to insert any if those intonthat doctrine.
It is also comical that the "one taken" of mat 24, is half of a group taken before the flood.

So, in their doctrine of "wicked taken" in mat 24, they are saying that half the world's population is born again, and half wicked.

IOW they have duped themselves into a "wicked man rapture", pretrib!!!!!
How funny is that??????

Since you ignore the holy scriptures, it’s time I put you on my ignore list.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Rewards are given at the First Resurrection (when Jesus returns at the 7th trump).

Revelation 20:4-6 (KJV) 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Incorrect, "Selah".

You are placing the first resurrection at the Second Coming, but the spiritual resurrection believers experience when they are born again during the present church age.

Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection, and the life” (John 11:25). He also said:

John 5:25: “The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”

Notice “and now is.” Christ was describing a life-giving work already taking place. Those who are spiritually dead hear His voice and receive spiritual life. Paul describes this in Ephesians 2:5–6: God has quickened us—made us alive—with Christ, raised us together, and seated us together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

This is why the first resurrection in Revelation 20 as participation in Christ’s resurrection life. Those who belong to Him are already a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9), and the second death has no power over them (Revelation 20:6).

Jesus then distinguishes this present spiritual awakening from the future bodily resurrection:

John 5:28–29: The hour is coming when all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—some to the resurrection of life, others to the resurrection of damnation.

The “rest of the dead,” in this reading, remain spiritually dead outside Christ. It is because they did not experience born again while they were alive. Their eventual bodily resurrection does not mean they receive spiritual life or salvation.

You are treating the first resurrection and the bodily resurrection at Christ’s return as the same event. That is incorrect. the Scripture distinguishes being made alive in Christ now from being raised bodily when He returns. Revelation 20 does not explicitly call that later event the “second resurrection.”

 

[RandyDawson]

Since you ignore the holy scriptures, it’s time I put you on my ignore list.

That'll teach 'em a lesson!

 

[Davy]

Incorrect, "Selah".

You are placing the first resurrection at the Second Coming, but the spiritual resurrection believers experience when they are born again during the present church age.

Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection, and the life” (John 11:25). He also said:

John 5:25: “The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”

Notice “and now is.” Christ was describing a life-giving work already taking place. Those who are spiritually dead hear His voice and receive spiritual life. Paul describes this in Ephesians 2:5–6: God has quickened us—made us alive—with Christ, raised us together, and seated us together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

This is why the first resurrection in Revelation 20 as participation in Christ’s resurrection life. Those who belong to Him are already a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9), and the second death has no power over them (Revelation 20:6).

Jesus then distinguishes this present spiritual awakening from the future bodily resurrection:

John 5:28–29: The hour is coming when all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—some to the resurrection of life, others to the resurrection of damnation.

The “rest of the dead,” in this reading, remain spiritually dead outside Christ. It is because they did not experience born again while they were alive. Their eventual bodily resurrection does not mean they receive spiritual life or salvation.

You are treating the first resurrection and the bodily resurrection at Christ’s return as the same event. That is incorrect. the Scripture distinguishes being made alive in Christ now from being raised bodily when He returns. Revelation 20 does not explicitly call that later event the “second resurrection.”

Sorry, but you are the one in error on that.

There is only ONE MORE COMING BY LORD JESUS CHRIST. And it is called the 'second coming'. There are only TWO advents written of in God's Word for Christ's coming. The 1st one was to die on the cross. The 2nd one is His future return to take reign over ALL nations, which also is the last day when the resurrection of the dead will occur.

Men's false pre-trib rapture theory ADDS... a 3rd coming prior to the "great tribulation" that does not exist in God's Word.

As of right now, our rewards in Christ are NOT YET handed out, and won't be until Lord Jesus returns on the 7th Trumpet, or "last trump" of Apostle Paul...

Rev 11:18
18 And the nations were angry, and Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that Thou shouldest give reward unto Thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear Thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
KJV

 

[Dryhn]

Yes.
Paul, John, Peter etc all teach the Lords own promise to come. There can only be one.


1Thess 4
15 For we say this to you by the Lord’s [own] word, that we who are still alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede [into His presence] those [believers] who have fallen asleep [in death].

What are the rapture verses from Peter ?

 

[Davy]

Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection, and the life” (John 11:25). He also said:

John 5:25: “The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”

Notice “and now is.” Christ was describing a life-giving work already taking place. Those who are spiritually dead hear His voice and receive spiritual life. Paul describes this in Ephesians 2:5–6: God has quickened us—made us alive—with Christ, raised us together, and seated us together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

It is also about this when Jesus went to the "spirits in prison" and preached The Gospel to them, and let those who believed out of that pit prison house...

Isa 42:6-7
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
KJV

1 Peter 3:18-20

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV

 

[William Barton]

. . . . .
Would you please tell me again what the 3 comings are? I’m sure you’ve mentioned it before but I can’t remember.1

(1) Jesus was born in Bethlehem (what was in Mary's womb was of the Holy Spirit).

(2) Jesus returns to a cloud and takes up believers (Revelation 14:14-16).

 

[William Barton]

. . . . .
Would you please tell me again what the 3 comings are? I’m sure you’ve mentioned it before but I can’t remember.

In Revelation:
14:14-20 (rapture, Jesus descends to a cloud)
19:11-21 (Jesus returns with his angels)
21:22-27 (Jesus returns to new heavens and earth).

We might also include his birth (Matthew 1:18).

 

[Sel@h]

In Revelation:
14:14-20 (rapture, Jesus descends to a cloud)
19:11-21 (Jesus returns with his angels
21:22-27 (Jesus returns to new heavens and earth).

We might also include his birth (Matthew 1:18).

Hello William, to clarify, there are only two comings of Jesus Christ. He came first as a baby in Bethlehem, ultimately to be crucified for our sins; this was the first Advent. The second Advent will be His return as King of kings and Lord of lords.

Revelation 14:14-20 and Revelation 19:11-21 both describe this same event—the harvest of the end times and His return as King—occurring at the seventh trumpet. Revelation 21:22-27, however, does not refer to His coming, but rather to the Eternity that follows the Millennium.

 

[CrowCross]

Revelation 14:14-20 and Revelation 19:11-21 both describe this same event—the harvest of the end times and His return as King—occurring at the seventh trumpet. Revelation 21:22-27, however, does not refer to His coming, but rather to the Eternity that follows the Millennium.

Just what exactly is this harvest?

 

[Sel@h]

Just what exactly is this harvest?

separating the wheat from the tares

 

[CrowCross]

separating the wheat from the tares

OK, what does that mean? How is it accomplished?

 

[Sel@h]

OK, what does that mean? How is it accomplished?

God knows, right?

 

[jeffweeder]

OK, what does that mean? How is it accomplished?

When Jesus fulfills his promise to come again as per Matt 25:31- , and 2 Thess 1.

Act 17
30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”


2Thess 1
This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

A thorough chaff less harvest worthy of the place he suffered to prepare for us.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yeah, what happened to "Wherefore comfort one another with these words?"





Jesus said few are actually saved

Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Postribbers have many many impossibilities in their theory.
The biggest one is their claim of "one coming", which is 100% impossible.

In fact if it is more than one, which anyone can see that the Bible actually teaches 3, then their ENTIRE DEAL collapses.

Basically they are left in ashes, sitting there saying , "I am not in ashes, you are".
While pointing with a charred finger.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Just what exactly is this harvest?

They are in some twilight zone.
Rev 14:14,15 has a vivid setting, timeframe, and description of Jesus.
Craming THAT into the second coming is a laugh.
The bible vividly depicts the two separate comings IN TWO SEPARATE TIME FRAMES .

They are in denial. The rev 14 gathering PREWRATH, HAS 144,000 jews as THEIR FIRSTFRUITS.
HOW IGNORANT TO NOT KNOW that Jesus is the firstfruits of the church.
SMH at the total ignorance of the bible.

 

[Truth7t7]

The biggest one is their claim of "one coming", which is 100% impossible.

In fact if it is more than one, which anyone can see that the Bible actually teaches 3, then their ENTIRE DEAL collapses.

Basically they are left in ashes, sitting there saying , "I am not in ashes, you are".
While pointing with a charred finger.

Jesus will appear a "Second Time" in the future, not a 3rd or 4th time as you "Falsely" teach and believe

Hebrews 9:28KJV
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

That'll teach 'em a lesson!

Postriber tantrum.
She can not honestly defend her man made theory.
With postribbers it is personal.
Funny how they do not know what the rapture is, nor the purpose of the 7 yr trib, nor who the 144,000 are.

Ask them any of those questions.
They will tamper with, and gut, all 3 dynamics.
The next major event in heaven and earth, and they are oblivious as to what it is, or it's purpose.

Asked em, "what is the rapture".
None of them know.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yes, that's when Jesus actually returns to earth and establishes His 1000 year reign as ruler over this world at which time he removes satan and his demons along with many evil people from the earth.

Prior to this there will b e a catching away of the faithful of the Body of Christ where these faithful meet Jesus in the air. During this catching away (rapture) Jesus does not come down to earth and this is not His second coming. Instead this is the removal of His faithful.

She will rock along with you for a while, then she starts the robotic "you are wrong",
Or, " there is no pretrib rapture".
Just Parroting something she can not defend.