The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[soberxp]

The “coming” of Christ…is one event.
The “return” of Christ…..is another event.

Sounds fair.

 

[William Barton]

The purpose of the rapture is to remove believers from the field of the coming battle. The millennium begins after this battle, which will be fought when Jesus with his mighty angels descend from the sky.

The English word "rapture" stems from Latin rapere = "to seize." This reflects "we will be caught up" in 1Thessalonians 4:17.

It's in the Book.

 

[CrowCross]

"Then I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war." (Revelation 19:11).

After the resurrection/rapture event of 1 Thes 4...and my 7 years of living in heaven in the room Jesus said He would come back for us and take us to in John 14... and enjoying the marriage supper of the Lamb...I plan on riding back with Jesus on my own white horse in Rev 19.

 

[ewq1938]

Is this the rapture? If it is the rapture it sounds pre-trib to me.
God removes the wheat and leaves the tares for the tribulation.

The burning/LOF is punishment not tribulation. This event happens after the second coming and Millennium, Rev 20. Therefore it is not a Pre-trib event.

Why do christians object to that? Do those christians want to go through the tribulation?

No, but they also don't want to commit Apostasy, which is worse than going through the trib that God said the church will go through.

.

 

[ewq1938]

After the resurrection/rapture event of 1 Thes 4...and my 7 years of living in heaven in the room Jesus said He would come back for us and take us to

He did not say "take us to" anywhere. The rooms are for those who die from the cross to the second comin g. At the Coming, he remains here and that is where we shall be. Re-read what Christ said in that passage.

in John 14... and enjoying the marriage supper of the Lamb...I plan on riding back with Jesus on my own white horse in Rev 19.

Just make sure you aren't fooled by the other white horse rider as he comes first and he will imitate the second coming and a fake but very convincing rapture could be part of that entire deception.

 

[ewq1938]

Tell any jesus that offers a pre-tribulation rapture, "No thanks!".

 

[Dryhn]

The rapture/our glorification, occurs at his coming, so start reading from there.

Peter looks for a NHNE in his glorified state as he waits for his coming.


10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will vanish with a [mighty and thunderous] roar, and the [material] elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and the works that are on it will be burned up.

11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be [in the meantime] in holy behavior [that is, in a pattern of daily life that sets you apart as a believer] and in godliness [displaying profound reverence toward our awesome God], 12 [while you earnestly] look for and await the coming of the day of God.

For on this day the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the [material] elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But in accordance with His promise we expectantly await new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

3 First of all, know [without any doubt] that mockers will come in the last days with their mocking, following after their own human desires 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming [what has become of it]? For ever since the fathers fell asleep [in death], all things have continued [exactly] as they did from the beginning of creation.”
5 For they willingly forget [the fact] that the heavens existed long ago by the word of God, and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly people.

Where does Paul teach melt, intense heat, gathering by angels in his rapture verses ?

 

[CrowCross]

The burning/LOF is punishment not tribulation. This event happens after the second coming and Millennium, Rev 20. Therefore it is not a Pre-trib event.

I don't know of any pre-tribber who would disagree with that. Why did you present it as if I do? That seems a bit dishonest.

No, but they also don't want to commit Apostasy, which is worse than going through the trib that God said the church will go through.

????? So, if I believe in a pre-trib rapture...that's worse than going through the tribulation????? What bible are you reading?

.

 

[CrowCross]

He did not say "take us to" anywhere. The rooms are for those who die from the cross to the second comin g. At the Coming, he remains here and that is where we shall be. Re-read what Christ said in that passage.

I did.
here's what the verse says..
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. 2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?b 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.

In the Fathers house is many rooms.
Jesus is going to prepare a place for us in His Fathers house.
Jesus said He will come back for us.
Jesus says we will always be with Him
You know where Jesus is going ...right?

Just make sure you aren't fooled by the other white horse rider as he comes first and he will imitate the second coming and a fake but very convincing rapture could be part of that entire deception.

I can't be fooled by the rider of the other white horse...Rev 6. Why? I won't be here. When the rapture occurs I'll be with Jesus in the house He built for me in heaven...

 

[rebuilder 454]

Tell any jesus that offers a pre-tribulation rapture, "No thanks!".

Jesus Christ taught the pretrib rapture.
I think you just declined being in it.
Sad
But it got you a pat on the back from another low info colleague.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I did.
here's what the verse says..
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. 2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?b 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.

In the Fathers house is many rooms.
Jesus is going to prepare a place for us in His Fathers house.
Jesus said He will come back for us.
Jesus says we will always be with Him
You know where Jesus is going ...right?

I can't be fooled by the rider of the other white horse...Rev 6. Why? I won't be here. When the rapture occurs I'll be with Jesus in the house He built for me in heaven...

It is the postribbers looking to, and awaiting the AC.
They are obsessed with waiting for the false Christ.

Then they point their finger at others, and mock those waiting for Jesus.

 

[CrowCross]

It is the postribbers looking to, and awaiting the AC.
They are obsessed with waiting for the false Christ.

Then they point their finger at others, and mock those waiting for Jesus.

I believe when they see the white horse ride of Rev 6...they'll think it's the white horse rider of Rev 19.

They'll say...see that!!! The trib is over. Look! He even went into the temple and declared himself to be God!!!

 

[ewq1938]

I did.
here's what the verse says..
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. 2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?b 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.

Quote the part where he says he takes people back to heaven.

In the Fathers house is many rooms.
Jesus is going to prepare a place for us in His Fathers house.
Jesus said He will come back for us.
Jesus says we will always be with Him

He said he would come back and we would be with him...he comes back to Earth so that is where we will be with him. The mansions is only for those who die and go to heaven without Jesus coming and taking them there. After Jesus leaves heaven, no one goes back to heaven, nor does Jesus.

You know where Jesus is going ...right?

Jerusalem.

I can't be fooled by the rider of the other white horse...Rev 6. Why? I won't be here.

That's why anyone who believes that will be fooled by him because he will come to them and claim he is Jesus.

When the rapture occurs I'll be with Jesus in the house He built for me in heaven...

That's not what the passage says will happen.

 

[ewq1938]

I believe when they see the white horse ride of Rev 6...they'll think it's the white horse rider of Rev 19.

They'll say...see that!!! The trib is over. Look! He even went into the temple and declared himself to be God!!!

OR...They'll say...see that!!! The Pretrib rapture is here! Look! He says he is God! Let's go with him before the tribulation starts!

 

[ewq1938]

I don't know of any pre-tribber who would disagree with that. Why did you present it as if I do? That seems a bit dishonest.

You said the separation of the wheat and burning of the tares was Pretrib rapture, "Is this the rapture? If it is the rapture it sounds pre-trib to me. God removes the wheat and leaves the tares for the tribulation."

How is that at all dishonest of me to address?

It's not the rapture because all of that happens after the Millennium not at the second coming (Amill thinks this is second coming events also which is another thing Pretrib and Amill have in common)

????? So, if I believe in a pre-trib rapture...that's worse than going through the tribulation?????

Yes because Pretrib teaches the apostasia is the rapture when it is the Apostasy.

What bible are you reading?

All of them.

 

[soberxp]

OR...They'll say...see that!!! The Pretrib rapture is here! Look! He says he is God! Let's go with him before the tribulation starts!

I would rather believe that on the day before the end of the world, God will take away His believers...

 

[ewq1938]

I would rather believe that on the day before the end of the world, God will take away His believers...

He only gathers them from wherever they are in the world to one spot up in the clouds so they join his army that follows him down to Armageddon. The disciples asked where the one taken would be taken to and he described events of Armageddon. They will see what happens to the enemy because they will be there watching.

 

[soberxp]

He only gathers them from wherever they are in the world to one spot up in the clouds so they join his army that follows him down to Armageddon. The disciples asked where the one taken would be taken to and he described events of Armageddon. They will see what happens to the enemy because they will be there watching.

Watching the end of the world upon them?
Even though they are called enemies, I still feel somewhat uneasy about it—I can’t quite bear to see it. I don’t know whether that is a kind of hypocrisy.

 

[ewq1938]

Watching the end of the world upon them?

Yes, the ones coming with Christ will witness what takes place.

Even though they are called enemies, I still feel somewhat uneasy about it—I can’t quite bear to see it. I don’t know whether that is a kind of hypocrisy.

Pro 24:17 Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:

 

[CrowCross]

Quote the part where he says he takes people back to heaven.

Why would Jesus mention rooms in heaven and say He's coming back for us?
Why would He mention the rooms being in heaven?