The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[Douggg]

The Bible also says that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord at the 7th trumpet. You read past that like it means nothing. It means that Jesus has returned and set up His kingdom on the earth. Armageddon has already occurred at the 7th trumpet.

The 7th trumpet sounding announces what the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth will be.

In Revelation 11:15, by those in heaven rejoicing about the kingdoms of this world having become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ - is because Satan's time of influence over the kingdoms of this world has been determined to finally end, by the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

Here is what is going to happen...

The seventh trumpet sounds, signaling Michael and his angels to cast Satan and his angels down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9. In Revelation 12:12 is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, which is Satan cast down to earth, having great wrath, anger, knowing his time is short. The time/times/half time of Revelation 12:14.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
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I think what "in like manner" means is that when Jesus returns, He will be visible to persons on earth, as He descends down to earth. His return will be visibly evident to everyone.

In other words, Jesus will not privately appear in some secret place to only a few persons. As Jesus warned in Matthew 24: 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Let's see, you used a setting of a event witnessed by a few in an obscure location, to prove a setting you claim is neither of those.

Pssst.... that tells you you are wrong.

 

[rebuilder 454]

"first fruits" is metaphoric for highest quality.

You left out "first" and went with "high quality"

 

[rebuilder 454]

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think what "in like manner" means is that when Jesus returns, He will be visible to persons on earth, as He descends down to earth. His return will be visibly evident to everyone.

In other words, Jesus will not privately appear in some secret place to only a few persons. As Jesus warned in Matthew 24: 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Lol.
That is wild.
A guy leaves your house dressed in a workshirt and some blue jeans. He has no luggage, has no money and carries nothing. Literally has nothing but the shirt on his back.
An angel appears to you, and says, "see that man leaving your house. He will return in like manner."
So you keep looking for this man to return. Ahem, in like manner AS HE LEFT IN.
(Because an angel appeared to you and told you he would return IN LIKE MANNER).
One day A man shows up on a horse and he's unrecognizable, because he's not dressed the same and He has crowns on his head and a sword proceeding out of his mouth, and has millions of warriors covering your entire neighborhood.

You, " Wait a minute this is not "like manner""

The neighbors inform you that he did come back years prior and it was just him on foot dressed the same way as when he left...IN LIKE MANNER.

....but you missed it.

 

[William Barton]

It’s getting close; the latter days are already here. Let’s not be deceived.

The gathering of believers to Christ will only occur after the Antichrist has reigned.

The popular "Rapture" theory, specifically the Pre-tribulation view, suggests that Christ will remove the church before the tribulation begins. This view claims believers will be whisked away to safety, avoiding all the fear and chaos of the Antichrist. However, this idea lacks biblical support and suggests a cowardice inconsistent with the faith of those who have died defending the truth. Our protection comes from God, our Rock, not from physical hiding places like caves in Petra.

Scripture is clear that the return of Christ happens at the last trump, after the "man of sin" is revealed. In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Paul explicitly warns believers not to be deceived: the Day of Christ cannot come until there is a great falling away and the son of perdition is revealed. This false messiah will exalt himself and sit in the temple of God, claiming to be God.

While some theorists claim that the "restrainer" mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is the Holy Spirit being removed during a Rapture, this is very poor scholarship. The context makes it clear that the restrainer is holding back Satan, not the church. In reality, the Archangel Michael is the one restraining Satan in heaven.

Satan’s spirit is active on earth, but he himself is not yet here in person. He will be cast out by Michael and his angels, arriving on earth first to reign as the false christ. Only after this event will the gathering to Christ occur. Do not be deceived by theories; rely solely on the Word of God.

Remember, Jesus Christ IS NOT returning until the great apostasy (falling away) occurs AFTER Satan, the son of perdition (meaning the son who will perish), is revealed.

Jesus said, "In the world you will have tribulation."

Everyone has tribulation of one sort or another (John16:33), but the Jews especially. Revelation speaks of a coming "great tribulation" in Israel, preceded by the rapture (Daniel 12:1, Matthew 24:21, 1Thessalonians 4:17).

It's in the Book.

 

[The Light]

Jesus said, "In the world you will have tribulation."

Everyone has tribulation of one sort or another (John16:33), but the Jews especially. Revelation speaks of a coming "great tribulation" in Israel, preceded by the rapture (Daniel 12:1, Matthew 24:21, 1Thessalonians 4:17).

It's in the Book.

It's also in the book that the Church will be in heaven before the great tribulation in an hour that you think not.

The rapture that occurs immediately after the great tribulation is for the Jews. They will be raptured at the sixth seal. We get another view of the is rapture in Rev 14.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus said, "In the world you will have tribulation."

Everyone has tribulation of one sort or another (John16:33), but the Jews especially. Revelation speaks of a coming "great tribulation" in Israel, preceded by the rapture (Daniel 12:1, Matthew 24:21, 1Thessalonians 4:17).

It's in the Book.

Not in the Bible.
How can you possibly get it backwards.
Are you aware your position has no verses?????

 

[The Light]

The 7th trumpet sounding announces what the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth will be.

The mystery of God is finished when the 7th angel begins to sound. There are no more woes. They are over. Armageddon is over. Christs kingdom is set up.

Revelation 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The 3rd woe is the 7th trumpet. It is the DAY OF THE LORD.

In Revelation 11:15, by those in heaven rejoicing about the kingdoms of this world having become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ - is because Satan's time of influence over the kingdoms of this world has been determined to finally end, by the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

Here is what is going to happen...

The seventh trumpet sounds, signaling Michael and his angels to cast Satan and his angels down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9. In Revelation 12:12 is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, which is Satan cast down to earth, having great wrath, anger, knowing his time is short. The time/times/half time of Revelation 12:14.

Here's what's going to happen.

The fallen angels will be cast to the earth at the 6th seal as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

There is not one shred of scriptural support that shows that the fallen angels are cast to the earth at the 7th trumpet.

Your scenario is not coming from the Bible, it is coming from the Book of Douggg.

Revelation 6
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

We can see the same event in Isaiah 34. The host of heaven is cast to the earth BEFORE the day of vengeance which is the 7th seal one year wrath of God.

Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

I suggest that you destroy the Book of Douggg that you continually grab information from that is not in scripture.

 

[William Barton]

It's also in the book that the Church will be in heaven before the great tribulation in an hour that you think not.

The rapture that occurs immediately after the great tribulation is for the Jews. They will be raptured at the sixth seal. We get another view of the is rapture in Rev 14.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The rapture occurs at the seventh trump, which is the "last" of the seven trumps (1Corinthians 15:51-54).

 

[Douggg]

The 3rd woe is the 7th trumpet. It is the DAY OF THE LORD.

What text says that the Day of the Lord is a woe to the inhabiters of the earth ?

The text of Revelation 12:12 is very specific, having the words "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth" in it.

What Woe number is that in Revelation 12:12 ?

The mystery of God is finished when the 7th angel begins to sound. There are no more woes. They are over. Armageddon is over. Christs kingdom is set up.

Revelation 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The mystery of God shall be finished in the days of the voice of the seventh angel. Not day of, singular.

 

[The Light]

The rapture occurs at the seventh trump, which is the "last" of the seven trumps (1Corinthians 15:51-54).

The second rapture occurs at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets the fall harvest feast which is for the Jews. The 144,000 are the first fruits of this harvest.

 

[ewq1938]

The Bible also says that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord at the 7th trumpet.

Yes because Christ will be the king of kings (all kingdoms)

You read past that like it means nothing. It means that Jesus has returned and set up His kingdom on the earth. Armageddon has already occurred at the 7th trumpet.

You are wrong that it means Armageddon is over. Arm. starts after Christ has returned.

It's also the time of judgement. That happens at the end of wrath.

And you ignore that the 7 trumpets are Gods wrath.

Only the 7th trump is associated with God's wrath, not the other 6.

The 6th seal has men hiding in caves knowing that wrath is getting ready to begin. But to you those trumpets are not the wrath of God. You can't seem to grasp that the trumpets and vials are both the wrath of God. It's the same game with two different visions.

You can'ty seem to grasp that the seals are prophecy of later events.

You are confused by the tense of "is" come and without reading what the scripture says to draw the correct conclusion.

You are the one that denies what "is come" means not me.

Most importantly you reject what an ordered list is. An ordered list happens in order. Simple.

The seals are not in order of Chronology.

On top of that somehow magically the 6th seal becomes the 7th trumpet.

False. You intentionly misrepresent my position which shows how faulty your position is.

But those 1st six trumpets happen earlier you claim but they cannot be found in the text anywhere but in the 7th seal.

They are not part of the 7th seal. You are the one trying to make the trumpets happen earlier than they do because you claim they aree part of the 7th seal.

Same with the rapture. You can't find the rapture anywhere in the 7 trumpets. You have to insert it even though it is not in the text. It's a plethora of pretend instead of facts.

The rapture is not mentioned in the trumps. We know it happens at the second coming which happens at the last trump which happens after the trib has ended.

 

[ewq1938]

"first fruits" is metaphoric for highest quality.

In this context it means the first to resurrect to immortality. CHrist did first, then the sdaved will become immortal at the COming.

1Co_15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co_15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

[Douggg]

In this context it means the first to resurrect to immortality. CHrist did first, then the sdaved will become immortal at the COming.

1Co_15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co_15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Why do you think it says "firstfruits" and not just "first" ?

It is because firstfruits not only means first, but also best. Jesus is the best person to be resurrected.

---------------------------------------------------------

In an orchard of fruit trees, the fruits that develop first during the growing season have the best taste and texture. So firstfruits as used in the text is metaphoric to meaning the best.

 

[Douggg]

Here's what's going to happen.

The fallen angels will be cast to the earth at the 6th seal as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Who cast them down to earth ?

 

[ewq1938]

Why do you think it says "firstfruits" and not just "first" ?

It is because firstfruits not only means first, but also best.

The first fruits on a fruit tree are not the best. Quality is random.

Jesus is the best person to be resurrected.

The context is chronological order not who is best.

---------------------------------------------------------

In an orchard of fruit trees, the fruits that develop first during the growing season have the best taste and texture.

I have fruit trees of multiple types and this is not true of any of them.

 

[William Barton]

It’s getting close; the latter days are already here. Let’s not be deceived.

The gathering of believers to Christ will only occur after the Antichrist has reigned.

The popular "Rapture" theory, specifically the Pre-tribulation view, suggests that Christ will remove the church before the tribulation begins. This view claims believers will be whisked away to safety, avoiding all the fear and chaos of the Antichrist. However, this idea lacks biblical support and suggests a cowardice inconsistent with the faith of those who have died defending the truth. Our protection comes from God, our Rock, not from physical hiding places like caves in Petra.

Scripture is clear that the return of Christ happens at the last trump, after the "man of sin" is revealed. In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Paul explicitly warns believers not to be deceived: the Day of Christ cannot come until there is a great falling away and the son of perdition is revealed. This false messiah will exalt himself and sit in the temple of God, claiming to be God.

While some theorists claim that the "restrainer" mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is the Holy Spirit being removed during a Rapture, this is very poor scholarship. The context makes it clear that the restrainer is holding back Satan, not the church. In reality, the Archangel Michael is the one restraining Satan in heaven.

Satan’s spirit is active on earth, but he himself is not yet here in person. He will be cast out by Michael and his angels, arriving on earth first to reign as the false christ. Only after this event will the gathering to Christ occur. Do not be deceived by theories; rely solely on the Word of God.

Remember, Jesus Christ IS NOT returning until the great apostasy (falling away) occurs AFTER Satan, the son of perdition (meaning the son who will perish), is revealed.

The rapture by Jesus is indicated in Revelation 14:14-16, at the seventh trumpet. See also 1Corinthians 15:51-53.

 

[Sel@h]

The rapture by Jesus is indicated in Revelation 14:14-16, at the seventh trumpet. See also 1Corinthians 15:51-53.

You’re referring to a post-tribulation “rapture“—right? (seventh trumpet)

 

[rebuilder 454]

You’re referring to a post-tribulation “rapture“—right? (seventh trumpet)

That destroys "one coming bogus doctrine", if you admit there is a rapture, mid 7yr trib.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yes because Christ will be the king of kings (all kingdoms)



You are wrong that it means Armageddon is over. Arm. starts after Christ has returned.





Only the 7th trump is associated with God's wrath, not the other 6.





You can'ty seem to grasp that the seals are prophecy of later events.




You are the one that denies what "is come" means not me.




The seals are not in order of Chronology.





False. You intentionly misrepresent my position which shows how faulty your position is.





They are not part of the 7th seal. You are the one trying to make the trumpets happen earlier than they do because you claim they aree part of the 7th seal.





The rapture is not mentioned in the trumps. We know it happens at the second coming which happens at the last trump which happens after the trib has ended.

It is you guys that actually have a starting place of " one coming" which is impossible.
100% impossible.

But your other starting place of what the church fathers believed tells it all.
You got all your beliefs from men, not the bible.
That is why you can't get it right.