No scripture contradicts rapture teaching

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bbyrd009

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I also see that you completely ignored Rev 12:5 harpazo. Convenient, no?
oh, because for all i know you might be right, and the physical does descend from the spiritual, as i said. So rather than try and dissuade you, i just suggest that, meanwhile, there are other interpretations that might be more immediately applicable, perhaps.
 

bbyrd009

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No, it's actually not. The rapture is in the Word of God 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5.
that is just your pov, and the word "rapture" is not used. And they did have this concept already, as Ezekiel has discussed. I suggest that this is a way to hide Word in plain sight, so that it must be sought, and so that others can see and not see.
 

bbyrd009

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Imminent rapture teaching is false. Rapture will land on His appointed time.
well, you do not know the first one, and the second one does not make the first one true. I agree that you will meet Him in the Air at some point--or you will not--and that "only God knows when, Christ doesn't even know." ha, poetry. There just is no better way to say it.
 

Glen55

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The resurrection is an on going event, in the twinkling of the eye you will leave your fleshly prison/tomb/earth/tribulation to go back (like the prodigal) to where you descended, no one ascends who didn't first descend as divine babes/seeds to experience duality called good and evil so we can grasp that only divine love has the power and right to run God's kingdom. The power of the fear of death (perfect love cast out all fear) is the main chain that binds the earthly/carnal mind (Cain) from finding rest concerning where you go after playing the role of a temporal persona ignorant of the facts that the eternal conscience dwells in you (the mystery of Christ in man, the kingdom of God is within you Luke 17:20-21) is to some degree or level still asleep/dead/under divine amnesia while a mental slave to fear concerning this worlds problems and future (which is an oxymoron) when eternity has no beginning or end. Relax you have the same power that Jesus our pattern man spoke about, heavenly food that the earthly minded haven't tapped into though heirs of all Galatian 4:1-4 are still under this worlds spell. The reason the religious factors warn (fear porn) you to keep watch on this world is a temporal trap we all go through on our way back home.
 

Heb 13:8

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meanwhile, there are other interpretations that might be more immediately applicable, perhaps.

Like what for example.

and the word "rapture" is not used.

That's actually not true. The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away.

Elsewhere it is used to describe how the Spirit caught up Philip near Gaza and brought him to Caesarea, Acts 8:39 and to describe Paul’s experience of being caught up into the third heaven, 2 Cor 12:2-4. Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.

and that "only God knows when, Christ doesn't even know."

which is an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets bbyrd. if believers can't know then Paul lied, Jesus does come like a thief to believers 1 Thess 5:4-11.

The resurrection is an on going event,

The first resurrection is a one time event Glen, 1 Cor 15:50-54.
 

Glen55

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No you have one that happens within when you awake from the dead the seed that fell to earth in flesh dust of the earth and slept until awakened The second death has no sting.
 

bbyrd009

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Like what for example.
like seeing that a reference was needed to represent all kinds of situations that one will find themselves in, in the course of their walk, and to be sure of a surely too-literal pov where some Scripture is concerned is just...um, well nevermind lol, carry on
 

bbyrd009

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Rev 12:5 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.
but there is at least a valid argument that the Revelation of Christ should be interpreted completely differently, so with so short a deadline i would urge examination of this position and what it may mean to you psychologically while you still can
 

bbyrd009

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which is an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets bbyrd. if believers can't know then Paul lied, Jesus does come like a thief to believers 1 Thess 5:4-11.
and which may also be interpreted completely differently ok, other than a verification of some date that you have divined. We'll see.
 

Heb 13:8

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but there is at least a valid argument that the Revelation of Christ should be interpreted completely differently, so with so short a deadline i would urge examination of this position

Differently how? God's throne is not on this planet bbyrd. Why do you think the church is being rescued from the red dragon. This planet is about to see the wrath of God, of seals trumpets and bowls. The church is not appointed to wrath. God would be in contradiction if He kept the church on this planet. Planet X is coming your way bbyrd. Are you saved?

1 Thess 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rev 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

and what it may mean to you psychologically while you still can

To live with Jesus Christ forever in a world without evil, I would think that's psychologically beneficial.

other than a verification of some date that you have divined. We'll see.

I have divined? No bbyrd. God is in control of the universe, not I. :rolleyes:

Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years.

Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

Job 38:31-32 "Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades, Or loose the cords of Orion? 32"Can you lead forth a constellation in its season, And guide the Bear with her satellites?

Psa 146:6 He is the Maker of heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them-- he remains faithful forever.

Amos 5:8 He who made the Pleiades and Orion And changes deep darkness into morning, Who also darkens day into night, Who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the surface of the earth, The LORD is His name.
 

Naomi25

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You know, I've heard some corkers over the years, and well...this isn't really the worst, as far as it goes, I suppose. But Heb 13:8...the twistiness that you have to do to make your numbers 'crunch', and the seemingly random bits you pluck from scripture to back up your theories. Well. I think you want so much for what you believe to be true, you've made it so ...I honestly can see no other way to fit all your pieces together.
I know you'll heartily disagree with me and probably reply with another lengthy post filled with reasoning's that don't add up...so we'll just have to say...let's just wait and see. September 23 is not that far away, is it?
 

bbyrd009

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1Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you

until many years in the future, you wouldn't believe me if i told you how long, so don't even worry about it for now lol
 

Heb 13:8

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You know, I've heard some corkers over the years, and well...this isn't really the worst, as far as it goes, I suppose. But Heb 13:8...the twistiness that you have to do to make your numbers 'crunch', and the seemingly random bits you pluck from scripture to back up your theories.

Hi Naomi,

We don't have to make the numbers crunch for the abomination of desolation to land on passover on 4/2/21 and the second coming of Christ to land on the day of atonement on 9/13/24. That's just the way it comes out when you place rapture on 9/21/17 by using the 1260, 1290, 1335 days. God did that, not me. If rapture doesn't occur this year, where are we gonna find better calculations?

1Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you

until many years in the future, you wouldn't believe me if i told you how long, so don't even worry about it for now lol

That's right, times and dates we do not need to write to you because that day will not surprise us like a thief. We will already know...

1 Thess 5:1-4 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.
 

Heb 13:8

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lol. ok then, we'll see i guess.

Psa 19:1-5 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge. 3They have no speech, they use no words; no sound is heard from them. 4Yet their voiceb goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun. 5It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, like a champion rejoicing to run his course.

Matt 21:24-27 Jesus replied, “I will also ask you one question. If you answer me, I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. 25John’s baptism—where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or of human origin?” They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Then why didn’t you believe him?’ 26But if we say, ‘Of human origin’—we are afraid of the people, for they all hold that John was a prophet.” 27So they answered Jesus, “We don’t know.” Then he said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.

Rev 12:1-2 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
 

ScottA

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No scripture contradicts pre-trib rapture teaching

The bible says that Christ comes as a thief and no man knows the day and the hour. If I give me estimations on the end-time I would have to go with Isaac Newton....

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christs coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However Isaac Newton notes

It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

So I would have....

Rapture - Christmas day, 2053
Return of Christ - Christmas day, 2060

But... The bible says...

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24

So though I may have an elaborate date prediction going on, yet I must say it is my best bet. Christ Jesus told me to be ready, for as such an hour as I think not the Son of Man cometh, which scripture also leads me to believe that it is pre-trib. It could happen today! And if I am mistaken about today it may come tomorrow! If I am ready for it I have nothing to loose and have walked obedient to scripture.

What is really sad is when people build elaborate end time predictions, and then hold those who do not agree with them as heretics. If Christ says the Father only knows of that day, then we must consider all date prediction and elaborate date predictions, including mine, stabs in the dark!

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. - Acts 1:7

Pre-trib teaching is a product of the gentile mind. We do our best with what we have learned, but even after that there is no way of nailing exact dates, which the Father has put in his own power. So it pays to be ready on a daily basis, just in case, which they probably are, our date predictions are in error.
The mistake, is thinking it is a one time grand event. It's not, but rather "each in his own order" (in his own time). And what day and hour in our own lifetime can we not know? Anyone?
 
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bbyrd009

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rapture doctrine is not going anywhere, as long as people seek for the world to change imo. People were doing it in Ezekiel's time, and Christ's time, and our time, and they will be doing it after Sept 24th too.
 
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bbyrd009

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The resurrection is an on going event, in the twinkling of the eye you will leave your fleshly prison/tomb/earth/tribulation to go back (like the prodigal)...
fwiw i think this describes an experience that you should have while you are alive, if it can be considered that "absent from the body" might have meanings other than the most logical one.

The only alternative seems to be to accept that Paul "met" Christ on the Road to Damascus, but then somehow later came to be craving death in order "to be present with the Lord."