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No scripture contradicts rapture teaching

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by rockytopva, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. Glen55

    Glen55 New Member

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    Saul was dead before that encounter seeing he was a son of Hagar under the law before he had his revelation Galatians 1:12, the fear of death no longer concerns the second born Isaac/Jesus which is why when we leave this carnal garment it will happen in a twinkling of on eye. All scripture is either interpreted through the letter as historical assumption or spiritually intended with no beginning or end to the teaching 2Cor 3:6, Luke 17:20-21, Acts 17:24, Rome gave the world a carnal christ to follow outside them which is where Saul was before he learned he was the temple of God, no man ascends who didn't fist descend divine seed fallen into earth/flesh and metaphorically died till they are born/sprouted/wakened .......................
     
  2. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    so then if Saul was "dead" pre-encounter, but "alive" afterward, yet still in his flesh, or "carnal garment?" Just trying to understand your terms here, ty.
     
  3. Glen55

    Glen55 New Member

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    The same term that Jesus used concerning letting the dead bury the dead, not physical death, but the state of the divine seed would still be considered dormant/dead in the earthly man Saul.
     
  4. buddyt

    buddyt New Member

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    The Rapture False Teaching if there ever was any. Some men have blinders on. And they want to feel secure and not worry about Gods wrath in the in times. If they would read Gods word and not part of Gods word there eyes would be opened. Jesus speaking of the end time here in Luke 10:19 Behold I give unto you power to tread on SERPENTS and SCORPIONS and over all the power of the enemy and NOTHING shall by any means hurt you. Is Jesus just blowing hot air here. He didn't say Ill remove you from anything. He said I give you power. I truly believe his word. Do you.

    It seems when the so called Rapture is mentioned man jumps straight to 1 Thessalonians. Verses 13-18 I would like for someone to tell me where it says that the return being spoken of here is to avoid Gods wrath. It doesn't say that. It simply tells you where the dead are. And that he returns at the last Trump. The 7th Trump the Trump of God.

    In the book of Ezekiel Chapter 13 we are told how God feels about False Teachings and how man will be and has been led away from his word. Verse 20 of this Chapter tells of how he feels of this so call Rapture. It reads-- Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly and I will tear them from your arms and will let the souls go even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly. We have a Loving Father and and he tells us here even if you do believe this lie he will still except you. But I would be very careful if I were one who would teach this to our brothers.
     
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  5. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Member

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    This appears, to me, to be the main problem right here. You're missing the point. We are not supposed to "find better calculations". We are not supposed to calculate Christ's return. We are just to live as he's called us, continue in the Great Commission, and live each day looking up. That's all. There is no calculating.
    And yes....what will you do when the rapture doesn't occur this year? That is a very good question. Do you have an answer? I appreciate you putting all your 'faith' behind this notion, as that's what we do in our faith. But you are so misguided in this notion, and it is so unbiblical, that I'm afraid you do need to consider the 'what if'. Plenty before you have made the exact same claims and and had experienced failure. And they were as sure. They too had done the 'calculations'.
    I feel so strongly on this issue, because you're not just setting yourself up for disappointment when Jesus doesn't Rapture the Church on that date. You're making the Church a laughing stock. "Another failed claim". You are part of the reason for the mockers in 2 Peter 3. It makes me sad and frustrated because it is damaging Jesus' good name on this earth.
     
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  6. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    That's actually not true. Paul and John both teach rapture.

    The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away.

    Elsewhere it is used to describe how the Spirit caught up Philip near Gaza and brought him to Caesarea, Acts 8:39 and to describe Paul’s experience of being caught up into the third heaven, 2 Cor 12:2-4. Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.

    The church is the restrainer in 2 Thess 2, once the church is removed, lights out!

    The 70th week of Daniel is 7 years of darkness, and we are actually considered children of the light and children of the day. God would be in contradiction if we entered the 70th week..

    Joel 2:1-2 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming. It is close at hand— 2a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come.

    Amos 5:18 Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD? That day will be darkness, not light.

    Zeph 1:15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness—

    1 Thess 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

    No, not really. Actually, we are commanded to wake up so He doesn't come like a thief. If you can't know His return then He will return as a thief. Tradition teaches you that you cannot know the day, but God gave us the 1260, 1290 and 1335 days. Similar to Rev 13:18.

    Rev 13:18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

    Go deeper into the Word, instead of taking Rev 12:1-5 great sign for granted.

    Right, but all those claims in the past did not have Rev 12:1-5 starring them in the face.

    Well, it was prophesied to be that way. Naomi the mocker.

    2 Chron 24:19 Although the LORD sent prophets to the people to bring them back to him, and though they testified against them, they would not listen.

    2 Chron 36:16 But they mocked God's messengers, despised his words and scoffed at his prophets until the wrath of the LORD was aroused against his people and there was no remedy.

    Matt 16:3 and in the morning, 'Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.

    Matt 24:38-39 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
     
  7. n2thelight

    n2thelight Member

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    The Church is not the restrainer,Michael is.

    II Thessalonians 2:6 "And now ye know what withholdeth [that which restraineth to the end] that he might be revealed in his time [own season]."

    The subject here is "the son of perdition", Satan, the Antichrist, or what ever name you desire to use for him. He is Satan, and Satan will commit the "abomination of desolation" of Daniel 9:27; and the church will be here to see it, because the "gathering", or Christ's return follows this.

    II Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity [lawlessness] doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

    The "mystery of lawlessness" is the mystery of iniquity. "He who now letteth will let"; in the Greek should be translated; "He who holds fast [ketcho] will stand." The ellipsis, or "omission from an expression of a word clearly implied"; "There is one who hold's fast", instead of by repeating the verb, "will let". However, "katecho" is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied also. So if the subject in verse six is Satan, then the object must be his position in the heavenlies [see Ephesians 6:12], from which he will be ejected from heaven by Michael [Revelation 12:7-9].

    "Out of the way", in the Greek is "out of ek", or "the midst". It is the same expression used in Acts 17:33, and I Corinthians 5:2.

    Many "rapture theorists" claim this one who "letteth" is the Holy Spirit, and they claim that when He is "taken away", then the Antichrist will come. By reversing the role of the characters in the verses here, and attributing what is Satan's to the Holy Spirit, you have a whole new doctrine called the "Any moment doctrine". This false doctrine is better known as the "rapture theory". It is dangerous to play around with a foreign language; and when the flock relies upon their shepherd for the truth, and the shepherd is assumed to be correct; in ignorance it is accepted just because he said it.

    It is Michael who "holds fast" on to Lucifer [the Antichrist], and Michael will continue to keep Lucifer held until the appointed time, spoken of above. That time is appointed by God. Then at the appointed time God will give Satan the keys [authority] to release his fallen angels and they will be cast to the earth [see Revelation 9:1-10]. Let's take a look at the one [Michael] who holds on to Satan now.

    Revelation 12:7; "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels," Michael [that is who the "he" is in II Thessalonians 2:7 and his [Michael's] angels fought against the dragon [another name for Satan] and his [Satan's] fallen angels.

    Revelation 12:8; "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven." This war took place in heaven, and that is where Satan and his angels are now; though Satan's spirit, and demonic spirits are all over the earth today. Now we will see what Michael does with Satan, in fulfilling II Thessalonians 2:7.

    Revelation 12:9; "And the great dragon [Satan] was cast out [that is the transitive verb of verse seven], that old serpent [this is the role Satan played in the Garden of Eden], called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world [except for God's elect]: he was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

    This is when Satan will physically appear on earth as a man with his angels. This is the time of the Antichrist's coming, and we must know when this time is by when these events takes place, for Satan comes at the sixth trumpet.

    Then the verse picks up where Satan is standing in the holy place. Satan's object is to deceive all the world, and have the world take his markings in their minds. God's Word thus says that Satan will come to earth and stand in that Holy place, before Christ will come and gather anyone back to Himself.

    2thess2
     
  8. n2thelight

    n2thelight Member

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    II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

    Paul is now getting to the purpose for this second letter. Paul reminded them of his first letter to them, of Christ returning and our gathering back to Him. Because of the misunderstanding that could be drawn from the first letter, he writes the following.

    It's important in this final generation that we pay attention for this will happen during our life time. The subject again of this letter is; "our gathering back to Christ".

    II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is [the Lord is just] at hand."

    Paul doesn't want you to misunderstand what he is about to say. This is why he makes it plain and simple; Paul told them not to confuse what he is saying here with any other teaching, or spirit, or even that first letter from him. This is because there was a confusing part in the first letter where false teachers had crept in and twisted Paul's words. The prime example of this today is the twisting of that first letter by the "rapture theorist", to form the trap that has been set for Christians in this final generation.

    Paul is saying, don't let anyone trouble you [confuse you], and tell you that the "day of Christ" is at hand. The "day of Christ [the Lord]" is the day when Jesus Christ will return to earth, and gather His saints to Him. This gathering will happen at the sounding of the seventh trumpet. This is one of those tradition's of men [false doctrines] that can deceive you.

    II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

    Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.

    The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God. Satan's judgment day has come already back in the first earth age, and he will have no part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgment yet to come. He has already been judged, and sentence by God to death "perdition" [Ezekiel 28 covers this judgment].

    What did Paul say again?

    Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth, but the saints of Christ will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition" [Satan] be revealed first
     
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  9. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    That's what I used to think to, until I woke up to the Rev 12 sign. Michael's war is in heaven, not on earth. The restraining takes place on earth.. youtube / watch?v=amYGukr4sdM&t=13s

    Thinking the rapture is false is elementary.

    The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away.

    Elsewhere it is used to describe how the Spirit caught up Philip near Gaza and brought him to Caesarea, Acts 8:39 and to describe Paul’s experience of being caught up into the third heaven, 2 Cor 12:2-4. Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.

    Notice the word "first" in the Greek text. Also, watch youtube / watch?v=amYGukr4sdM&t=13s

    2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (rapture) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    No, the gathering is referring to rapture, encouraging one another..

    Heb 10:25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

    1 Thess 4:17-18 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

    which is referring to rapture.. youtube / watch?v=amYGukr4sdM&t=13s

    646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."
     
  10. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Member

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    We are commanded to "stay" awake, not to 'wake up'. There is a difference, a big difference, and if you are getting the two mixed up, then that could be the basis of your problem. Or it could be a sign of how you get scripture so wrong....


    Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. - Matt 24:42-44



    If we could know the exact day and the exact hour of Christ's return, why the warnings to be prepared? To watch, to stay awake? The bible specifically tells us that we do not know the day the Lord is coming. This passage clearly tells us that it is easy to be prepared with warning. It's easy to 'live right' in the month before September...get all your affairs and soul in order, when you 'know' he's coming. That's a cop out and NOT what scripture tells us OR how God wants us to live. He want us to STAY AWAKE! That means he wants us to live each and every day awake...like today could be the day. If I am prepared for Christ to return in the next moment, then I'm living for him now. I have oil in my lamp, I'm watching for that thief and I am longing for that blessed hope and for the Kingdom.




    Therefore stay awake—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning lest he come suddenly and find you asleep. And what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake.” - Mark 13: 35-37



    Again we are told we cannot know the time...evening? Midnight? Dawn? Morning? Hence the need to stay awake! If we are awake and watching, then it doesn't matter what time he comes, as we are ready and waiting.



    (“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”) - Rev 16: 15


    It's interesting, isn't it, that the exhortation is always to stay awake! Not...set your alarm clock to the allotted time, so that you may catch that pesky thief when he comes! The only reason you would need to stay awake, is if you were NOT sure of the time the thief planned to come. If you knew he was planning to come at 4 am, you'd have supper, get to bed early, have a good sleep and be up by 3 and be ready with your phone and baseball bat (or whatever!). You see the logical problems that comes here. You're consistently ignoring the biblical commands that we cannot know the date, time or hour, and you're also side-stepping the clear implications of what STAYING AWAKE actually means.


    So...if you are the one ignoring the clear meaning of scripture, the onus it on you to prove your thesis...but you can't. You just say the 'sign' proves it. Golly.




    Aaand...what has this got to do with you date setting and mangling verses to do so?



    So, just because I don't believe astrology to be a particularly great way to interpret God's word, I must be taking that word for granted? That's rather presumptuous of you.



    Well, of course. Silly of them, I suppose, not to consider some astrology and a famously obscure passage in the most debated book in the bible. Think of all the heartache and ridicule that could have been saved just had they. I suppose, lacking those obvious key things, they had to fall back on ignoring the date setting passages (as you do) so that they could do mathematical and biblical gymnastics to do the very thing the bible said they couldn't and shouldn't.




    I am not a mocker in the sense of 2 Peter 3. I know my Lord will return, and I rejoice over that, and I long for that. But you could call me a rebuker, perhaps. I think what you are doing, what you are teaching, is harmful to Christ's Church and I don't think it is found in scripture. More over, you seem so intent to find in scripture what you want, what is not there, that you are ignoring and avoiding what is there and what is very clear. That is not safe; for yourself or for those who listen to you.




    I'm sorry, but are you calling yourself a prophet? Because you do know what the bible says about God's prophets, don't you? Let's see...of course, there's the fact that your prophecies have to have a 100% accuracy...so, we might need to wait until September 24th for that. A true prophets message will only agree and build on God's word rather than disagree or contradict it. That should concern you.

    What should also concern you is how frequently in the OT we find verses like this:

    There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or cone who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord - Deut 18:10-12a

    Divination and interpreting omens. Basically, God is very, very clear that we are NOT to look for his will in the esoteric signs of nature. And that is what you are doing. When you put that together with the fact that you're ignoring the verses about date setting...things are getting sticky. Really sticking, and I can't understand why your guts aren't clenching in dread. Mine are, whenever I read about the 'wondrous sign 2017'.
    I don't mind differing in opinions, biblically. I'm okay with that, because I know I'm not infallible. I like to try and keep an open mind and be ready to learn what God and the Spirit have in store for me. But I have that line in the sand which I will not cross. And God's word being pulled, twisted and ignored...nope. Warning bells, sirens...danger. I just hope that you are not so desperate for Christ's return (and I long for it too) that you are being led astray. But...in a way...it will be better for you to be led astray, then to be leading people astray. But...those are matters I cannot know, so I will leave them to my Lord.
     
  11. n2thelight

    n2thelight Member

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    So Christ won't return until the rapture happens first?Are you serious?
    How in the heck can this rapture happen before Christ returns when His return is the rapture,makes no sense

    So He can't come until He comes,wow!!!
     
  12. n2thelight

    n2thelight Member

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    Strong's Greek Lexicon

    646.
    apostasia ap-os-tas-ee'-ah feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):--falling away, forsake.


    II Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness [deceit] of unrighteousness in [for] them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth,"

     
  13. n2thelight

    n2thelight Member

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    What in the heck is the Church restraining and how?
    And what denomination?
     
  14. buddyt

    buddyt New Member

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    n2thelight
    You are spot on in your post #68. What amazes me is it is written in Ezekiel 13 this teaching does not please God. And yet man looks the other way and believes man. Satan will take this false teaching and have people jumping in his wagon thinking they will be gone. It's a perfect setup for him. All he has to say is I've come to fly you out of here.
     
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  15. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    yes lol--to Mars, perhaps, or whatever escape is currently in fashion. It is the same spirit imo.
     
  16. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    No, they're actually the same thing. If we can't know the day and hour, then He will come like a thief to believers. Naomi, He only comes like a thief to nonbelievers.

    1 Thess 5:4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

    Again, an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets.

    The belief that rapture could happen on any day is false. God has His appointed times for all 7 Feasts. The first four feasts actually were fulfilled down to the day. Why do you think God gave us the 70 weeks? The Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits and Feast of Weeks/Pentecost were fulfilled down to the day.

    If you go to Leviticus 23 there are seven feasts of the Lord. The word "festival" in Hebrew is translated "moed" which means: appointed time, place, or meeting. The first four feasts have already been fulfilled by Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, and the last three are still future. Jesus fulfilled the first four feasts to the day literally, and the next feast on God's calendar is the Feast of Trumpets. Learn your Bible!

    A born again believer will never run out of oil because the Holy Spirit will never leave them, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30.

    Again, an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets.

    What do you think the twinkling of an eye means? Learn your Bible.. TorahCalendar.com

    When Jesus uses the term thief, he is showing us how he comes like a thief to nonbelievers!

    Rev 12:1-5 is astronomy because it's in the Word of God Naomi.

    Yet you call the Rev 12:1-5 sign astrology. :rolleyes:

    and you're willing to risk that? shouldn't you be warning your friends and family? oh wait, you believe it's astrology, never mind.

    Again, this is astronomy, not astrology.

    Believers have nothing to worry about, it's nonbelievers who should be worried.

    1 Thess 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Rev 6:15-17 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
     
  17. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    The rapture and the second coming on the Day of Atonement are 7 years apart.

    Watch this video and learn why this word means rapture.. youtube / watch?v=amYGukr4sdM&t=26s

    The church is restraining darkness and for the antichrist to be revealed. How? By just being in the world. 2 Thess 2:6-8.

    So many are fulfilling prophecy by denying the rapture. That's why He comes like a thief to nonbelievers. Amen.
     
  18. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Member

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    Because we've been over all that before and have clearly reached an impasse ("it's an idiom"... "no it's not") and the clear words of scripture don't seem to matter, I thought perhaps I might look to a different point.

    So...what you're doing is okay, because it's astronomy, not astrology? I thought...'what, exactly, is the difference?' I suppose astrology has a certain sense of mysticism to it, but I couldn't really define it, so I looked it up. Here's what it said:

    astrology
    əˈstrɒlədʒi/
    noun
    noun: astrology; noun: natural astrology; noun: judicial astrology
    the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world.


    Now...here's the definition for astronomy:

    astronomy
    əˈstrɒnəmi/
    noun
    noun: astronomy
    1. the branch of science which deals with celestial objects, space, and the physical universe as a whole.

    So...if what you were doing was only observing the natural universe, then it would only be astronomy. As it is, you are interpreting the relative positions of the celestial bodies and the influences they will have on human affairs. Seems to be that it's fairly clear that you are dabbling in astrology. You can deny it all you want, but there you go.

    But, of course, you wave away scripture like it's of no consequence, so I doubt the actual meanings of words will bother you any.


    I think you misunderstand me. My guts don't clench in fear or worry of what is to come. Not at all! I have wonderful peace there and cannot wait to meet my Lord...be it the other side of the grave or in the air. The nauseous feeling I get is the one I get when I come across something that is truly not right. You are not being faithful to scripture. You are ignoring it, twisting it, and worse, using it to your own purposes. And I don't know if it's because you have an agenda of your own, or if it's because you want it to be true so badly, you have blinded yourself to the bibles clear teachings. Either way, the Spirit is telling me that it is not right...and so I need to say so.
     
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    human desires are the hardest thing to overcome, huh. Luckily God has been afforded an opportunity to make the truth plain here soon enough, if the many passages on prognosticating and divining do not. Why argue, when Sept 25th is coming tomorrow, and then all will be in possession of the truth?
     
  20. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    Well that's the thing. Now it comes down to believing. When Paul says that day will not surprise us like a thief, I believe him. You don't.

    God created the constellations, the sun, moon, stars and planets for times, days and years. The Rev 12:1-5 sign takes place in the heavens. How else do you see it being fulfilled if 9/23/17 is not the sign. Wake up! This is astronomy.

    Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years.

    Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

    Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

    Job 38:32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

    Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge.

    :rolleyes: