Rapture Debate.

[skyangel]

Actually, the rapture, day of the lord and the 70th week are all connected to a woman in labor.

Isa 13:6-8 Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty. 7Because of this, all hands will go limp, every heart will melt with fear. 8Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame.

Isa 26:17-21 As a pregnant woman about to give birth writhes and cries out in her pain, so were we in your presence, Lord. 18We were with child, we writhed in labor, but we gave birth to wind. We have not brought salvation to the earth, and the people of the world have not come to life. 19But your dead will live, Lord; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. 20Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. 21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

Jer 30:6-7 Ask and see: Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale? 7How awful that day will be! No other will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it.

1 Thess 5:1-3 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

In the story Mary was a woman in labour before she gave birth to Jesus.
In what way were any of the bible characters writhing in pain when they faced the Lord?
What was destroyed in them when they faced the Lord?

You are the one who is giving birth to nothing but wind as long as you spew all your hot air about your fantasy of an actual supernatural man appearing in literal clouds one day and people literally floating up into those literal clouds to be with him.
However, feel free to live in your fantasy as long as you like. I understand many children love their fantasies and hate to lose their imaginary friends.

What is to come IS THE FUTURE.

Yes and "tomorrow" arrives every day and as soon as it does it is called today. The future will always be coming and is always there every day.

 

[skyangel]

Because the word harpazo is in the Greek text.

The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away.

Elsewhere it is used to describe how the Spirit caught up Philip near Gaza and brought him to Caesarea, Acts 8:39 and to describe Paul’s experience of being caught up into the third heaven, 2 Cor 12:2-4. Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.



The rapture doesn't happen on any given day. God has an appointed time for everything.

If you go to Leviticus 23 there are seven feasts of the Lord. The word "festival" in Hebrew is translated "moed" which means: appointed time, place, or meeting. The first four feasts have already been fulfilled by Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, and the last three are still future. Jesus fulfilled the first four feasts to the day literally, and the next feast on God's calendar is the Feast of Trumpets which is on 9/21/17 two days before the great sign appears in heaven. Each festival (an appointed time in history) represents an event Jesus fulfilled or will fulfill in the near future. The Feast of Trumpets represents the rapture of the church at the end of the church age, the age of Grace.

1. The Passover (God leads the Jews out of Egypt and slavery)
2. Unleavened Bread (The Death and Burial of Jesus Christ)
3. First Fruits (Resurrection of Jesus Christ)
4. Feast of Weeks/Pentecost (The beginning of the church age, Holy Spirit indwells believers)
5. Feast of Trumpets (The rapture of the church)
6. Day of Atonement (Jesus lands on the Mount of Olives and atones for the sins of Israel at the end of the 7 year tribulation)
7. Feast of Tabernacles (The 1,000 year reign with Christ)



The air in 1 Thess 4:17 is air in the atmosphere in which we breathe.

aér: air
Original Word: ἀήρ, ἀέρος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aér
Phonetic Spelling: (ah-ayr')
Short Definition: air
Definition: air, the lower air we breathe.

As long as you fail to understand the spiritual meanings hidden behind the outward appearances of physical events and continue to believe some of those physical events have not happened yet, you are self deceived and being a blind fool.

Everything that is prophesied in the bible stories about Jesus has been completed and was completed at the cross in the story. There is nothing left to be done. The character said IT IS FINISHED. He claimed to have COMPLETED everything he was given to do.
That means there is no new thing left for him to do in future. It is all done, finished, complete.
If he had to do something else in future, the work would be UNFINISHED.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

 

[Heb 13:8]

So not all saved believers will be coming to the Marriage Supper;

Partial rapture is false.

 

[skyangel]

So you think we'll be changed into our new bodies here on earth? Uhh, no.

We are not changed into our resurrected bodies and continue living on this earth. That is silly. This earth is about to experience God's wrath, and believers are not appointed to wrath, 1 Thess 5:9.

So the restrainer (which is the church) has already been taken out of the way in 2 Thess 2?

Uh no. The light and the darkness are referring to believers in Christ restraining darkness and the Day of the Lord that is soon to come...


skyangel, i'm referring to literally living with Jesus Christ the person. this doesn't happen until we receiving our resurrected bodies, 1 Cor 15:50-54. Lord help us.

Obviously you don't understand the concept of the spiritual body.
You seem to think that your individual physical body is going to go through some transformation or change to become a new individual "spiritual" body and you seem to think that happens after you have literally died and been physically buried.
Am I right with my interpretation of your perception so far?

There is obviously a physical body and we all have an individual one of those.
The spiritual body however is not an individual body. It is a corporate body of the SAME SPIRIT which is manifest in INNUMERABLE physical bodies of the past present and future.
To be changed into a spiritual body is about becoming ONE with the TRUTH, ONE with LIFE, and not about having new individual "ghost like" bodies.

Christ is ONE corporate body of many members ( 1 Cor 12:12) in the Spirit. They are not many "Christs" (TRUTH and LIGHT). There are not many different Lights or many different Truths but in Christ you become ONE LIGHT and ONE TRUTH and ONE LOVE with THE WHOLE TRUTH and nothing but the WHOLE TRUTH. It is a corporate body who all have the SAME ONE SINGLE MIND as CHRIST not many different minds in different bodies. They all think the same thing and act the same way as Christ did and does and always will yesterday today and forever in the flesh on this Earth.
When you are in Christ and Christ is in you, whoever sees you sees Christ in the same way as anyone who saw the character named Jesus in the story also saw the father when they saw the man.
The only way to see a SPIRIT is through its manifestation in a human body. The Spirit of LOVE also known as God (1 John 4:8), manifests itself all the time through human bodies on Earth and when you see a manifestation of Love you are seeing God regardless of what the person believes about the bible and its stories.
God or Christ is constantly manifesting himself/itself in the flesh on this Earth. He/It is not some invisible person who will arrive in literal clouds one day.
LOVE and TRUTH is never going to magically appear in any literal clouds in the form of a person. To believe such a story is to believe in a myth. It is a religious fiction and fantasy.
LOVE and TRUTH are always on Earth in physical form (flesh) and manifest through the physical form or flesh of humans and through all forms of nature.
A spiritual "cloud" is simply referring to Spirit and has nothing to do with physical clouds in the air.
You ARE already Living with Jesus Christ the person as soon as you accept the "character" or "person" into your heart in Spirit.
The "person" is the Spirit within your physical body and IF you are living the way the character Jesus lived and have put on his mind( Phil 2:5) and are following his example ( John 13:15), his words and actions are manifest though your words and actions and his thoughts through your thoughts. Your physical body becomes the physical body of the Spirit of Christ on Earth. That however does not make you as an individual Christ because is not confined to only one physical body but has MANY physical bodies and is in many places all at the same time. Christ is ALL and IN ALL. When you look at ALL physical things around you, what you see is a manifestation of the Spirit of LIFE in the physical flesh on Earth.
Open your eyes and see.

 

[Heb 13:8]

In the story Mary was a woman in labour before she gave birth to Jesus.

If Rev 12:1-5 is referring to Mary and Jesus 2,000 years ago, then why can't anyone find the sign on Stellarium. Stellarium is a star tracking software, so why is it that we can only find it on 9/23/17. Wake up! If that's even possible anymore.

In what way were any of the bible characters writhing in pain when they faced the Lord?

The woman in Rev 12 represents Israel and is giving birth to the body of Christ. Rev 12:1-5 labor pains is referring to the reversal in Isa 66. Birth before labor pains, rapture before tribulation...

Isa 66:7-9 “Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. 8 Who has ever heard of such things? Who has ever seen things like this? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children. 9 Do I bring to the moment of birth and not give delivery?” says the LORD. “Do I close up the womb when I bring to delivery?” says your God.

You are the one who is giving birth to nothing but wind as long as you spew all your hot air about your fantasy of an actual supernatural man appearing in literal clouds one day and people literally floating up into those literal clouds to be with him.
However, feel free to live in your fantasy as long as you like. I understand many children love their fantasies and hate to lose their imaginary friends.

An actual supernatural man? Well, of course he's supernatural. He's Jesus Christ, God in the flesh.

Yes and "tomorrow" arrives every day and as soon as it does it is called today. The future will always be coming and is always there every day.

Right, but rapture will occur at the appointed time just like the first four feasts were.

As long as you fail to understand the spiritual meanings hidden behind the outward appearances of physical events and continue to believe some of those physical events have not happened yet, you are self deceived and being a blind fool.

No, I think I understand quite clearly who the players are in Rev 12..

9/23/17, Rev 12:5, X etc..

Everything that is prophesied in the bible stories about Jesus has been completed and was completed at the cross in the story. There is nothing left to be done.

Obviously you don't understand the concept of the spiritual body.

You do realize that Jesus Christ himself (in the flesh) walked the earth for 33 years, right. Upon first resurrection and rapture we will finally be with Him (in the flesh).

John 14:1-4 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God ; believe also in me. 2My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”

1 Tim 3:16 Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

 

[ScottA]

That is true.
However, all people arrive at that revelation at different times in spite of all being there together all the time. The fact is that some can SEE because they walk in the LIGHT and some cannot because they walk in darkness and the so called "light" in them is darkness.

Good point. Most consider the "rapture" as the time we exit this world, and for all practical purposes, it is. Except that perception does not account for the time many enter into the kingdom during our lifetime on earth - these are "the living who remain" spoken of by the apostle Paul.

 

[ScottA]

God will be judging His House first at the pre trib rapture event, separating the vessels unto dishonor that did not repent from iniquity from attending the Marriage Supper with the vessels unto honor that did look to Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd to deliver them from evil works and preserve them faultless in His kingdom. Jesus will lose none of all the Father has given Him which is why the vessels unto dishonor will be received later on to their terrestrial inheritance after the great tribulation.

Jesus had warned believers that before He appears, there will only be a few that be found abiding in Him because of the falling away from the faith; Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30

So not all saved believers will be coming to the Marriage Supper; those who trust Jesus as their Good Shepherd in helping them to follow Him by the words as kept in the KJV to discern good and evil by in these latter days are the ones that shall find themselves brought home by their hopes being all on Him.

Saved believers living in unrepentant sin and/or doing works of darkness that deny Him, need to trust Jesus to deliver them from all of them to be ready to go. Since we could not saved our selves and it was a HUGE good thing that Jesus has done in order to save us, we should acknowledge our need of Him more as our Good Shepherd to help us discern by the KJV the works of darkness in the churches to day as well as anything else that has crept into our walk with Him in living out our daily lives so that we can lean on Him for help to depart from any and all iniquity.

So I hope readers will take this as a prompt to go before the throne of grace for help from Jesus to help them discern the works of darkness to depart from them and be ready as well as helping them to be willing to go, leaving their lives and loved ones behind in His care to attend the Marriage Supper above. Read Luke 12:40-49 to see His warning to even the disciples and Luke 14:15-33 of His warning to be ready & willing to leave this life behind.

Indeed. But do you know that it is not above, but within, and that these events are not future, but now, each one in his own order?

 

[ScottA]

Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.

The kingdom of heaven is within.

 

[skyangel]

If Rev 12:1-5 is referring to Mary and Jesus 2,000 years ago, then why can't anyone find the sign on Stellarium. Stellarium is a star tracking software, so why is it that we can only find it on 9/23/17. Wake up! If that's even possible anymore.

When 9/23/17 comes I hope you wake up to your own stupidity and foolishness and repent of your carnal mindedness and trying to set dates on things which can have no specific dates applied to them because they are eternal. Than maybe you will stop posting the silly purple head which is staring into space and understand the TRUTH flew right over that silly head of yours because you are living in a day dream and refuse to see it.

An actual supernatural man? Well, of course he's supernatural. He's Jesus Christ, God in the flesh.

Wake up and realise that any people with supernatural powers cannot set any kind of example for ordinary people to follow and expect them to follow that example.
People with supernatural powers in any stories at all are mythical characters like Superman.
No person with a body of flesh can walk on water for example unless he is an illusionist and does tricks to fool observers.
Anyone filled with the Spirit of TRUTH can walk on "water" when they understand that "the water" is spiritual water which is referring to TRUTH. To take the stories literally and believe the stories of miracles in the bible are referring to physical things is very foolish.
They are all about spiritual things.
Just because a person has the Spirit of God in them, does not make them God. That includes the character named Jesus. Every Christian claims to be filled with the same Spirit that Christ was filled with. Does that make them God because they have God in them?
The Spirit of God is in many bodies of flesh on Earth and not just human bodies either. God in the flesh is everywhere. He is not an individual person. He is a BODY of MANY members. 1 Cor 12:12

 

[skyangel]

You do realize that Jesus Christ himself (in the flesh) walked the earth for 33 years, right. Upon first resurrection and rapture we will finally be with Him (in the flesh).

John 14:1-4 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God ; believe also in me. 2My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”

1 Tim 3:16 Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

Christ walks the Earth in the flesh every day Yesterday Today and Forever. If you knew the real Christ you would know that TRUTH and if he was IN YOU, you would not be waiting to be with him at all because you would already be with him and he would also be with you.
You are a foolish person to be waiting for another Christ to arrive in the flesh when you claim he is in you. Don't you understand that your physical body is the body of Christ on Earth? If he has the fleshly bodies of the believers on Earth, why are you waiting for another Christ to arrive in literal clouds?

Do you realise there are many resurrection stories in the bible and one happened on the same day that Jesus was crucified?
Matt 27:52-53. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Now please tell me which resurrection was that? Ist? 2nd? 3rd? How many resurrections do you imagine there are?
The resurrection is not an event. It is a SPIRIT.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection,

Those who live in Christ already live in the resurrection.

If you wish to be with Jesus in the flesh, look for him in the flesh that you are walking around in and if you find him in there, WITHIN YOU, in the flesh YOU are in then you will be with him in the flesh and he will never leave or forsake you.
If you wish to see Jesus in the flesh on Earth and you claim to have Jesus IN you, take a good look in the mirror and understand that the flesh you are looking at is supposed to manifest Christ daily and YOU my dear child are Christ in the flesh on Earth IF you say and do the same as He does. If not, you are still walking in darkness and hoping your imaginary invisible idol will make an appearance in literal clouds in September. That is simply not going to happen.

 

[skyangel]

Good point. Most consider the "rapture" as the time we exit this world, and for all practical purposes, it is. Except that perception does not account for the time many enter into the kingdom during our lifetime on earth - these are "the living who remain" spoken of by the apostle Paul.

If you are referring to physical death as the time people exist the world/Earth, when you think of it, their dead physical bodies actually never exist the world/Earth at all but become part of it in the sense of becoming dust and remaining dust for ever.
If we are talking about spiritual death, the spirit in us can exit "the world" any time and is not confined by any physical body. We can be in the world but not of the world any time we choose to exist the "worldly realm" and abide in the heavenly realm or the kingdom of God which as you are aware is WITHIN YOU.
As for "the living who remain". All living remain in the kingdom of God all the time and that kingdom is always on Earth since it is always WITHIN the living people on the Earth.
None of us ever escape from Life. We are all eternal beings ( eternal spirits living in human bodies) from the beginning and the only part of us that perishes is the physical body. Physical death is simply part of physical Life.

 

[skyangel]

Typo correction for post 111
"dead physical bodies actually never exit the world/Earth at all"

 

[eldios]

Rom 10:9-10.

That lie that was placed in the New Testament written by liars who stole the writings of God's servants do not understand how we're created. Jesus knew his body was only an illusion that would perish when the Romans killed it.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

All the flesh of men will perish during this temporary generation but the Word of God will go on forever and ever.

 

[eldios]

So you think we'll be changed into our new bodies here on earth? Uhh, no.

1 Cor 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

Col 1:26-27 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord's people. 27To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.



We are not changed into our resurrected bodies and continue living on this earth. That is silly. This earth is about to experience God's wrath, and believers are not appointed to wrath, 1 Thess 5:9.



So the restrainer (which is the church) has already been taken out of the way in 2 Thess 2?



Uh no. The light and the darkness are referring to believers in Christ restraining darkness and the Day of the Lord that is soon to come...

Joel 2:1-2 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

Zep 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

1 Thess 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.



skyangel, i'm referring to literally living with Jesus Christ the person. this doesn't happen until we receiving our resurrected bodies, 1 Cor 15:50-54. Lord help us.

There won't be any real living person named Jesus Christ after the day of the Lord when everything on earth is destroyed. The Lord is coming as fire on the day of the Lord, not as a living person named Jesus. Jesus is the name of the body that the Lord used 2000 years ago to start the millennium reign of Christ. Then the Lord used many other bodies after that first body to testify to the knowledge called Christ until he used the body that's typing this sentence to end the millennium reign of Christ.

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water,
6 through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

The "ungodly men" are the visible flesh of man ( proud of the earth ) that are destroyed and die during this temporary generation.

Psalm 22:
25: From thee comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
26: The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the LORD! May your hearts live for ever!
27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.
28: For dominion belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
29: Yea, to him shall all the proud of the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and he who cannot keep himself alive.
30: Posterity shall serve him; men shall tell of the Lord to the coming generation,
31: and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, that he has wrought it.

 

[n2thelight]

The coming (parousia) of the son of man in Matt 24 is referring to rapture, the Day of the Lord and Daniels 70th week of tribulation. The rapture is in Matt 24:40-41.

The one taken first is deceived,taking by satan

 

[buddyt]

Ezekiel 13:20-21 Why do believers of the Rapture lie ignore Gods word ?

 

[eldios]

Ezekiel 13:20-21 Why do believers of the Rapture lie ignore Gods word ?

They have never heard the Word of God speaking into their minds and giving them commands to obey. Only us servants of God have experienced listening to the voice and obey every single command until we're used to speak for God.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Partial rapture is false.

Did Paul testified to the church at Corinth to excommunicate an unrepentant brother? For what purpose?

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So fellowship in eating and drinking at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb requires what?

1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.............11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

So what happens when churches do not excommunicate unrepentant believers from the assembly? God will excommunicate unrepentant believers from the Marriage Supper. Better believe it, brother.

Did not the Lord addressed 7 churches in Revelation to prepare or else? Was not the church at Thyatira warned to repent or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation? Was not the church at Philadelphia promised when they hold fast that they shall kept from the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth?

The pre trib rapture is God judging His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) to deal with the falling away from the faith first as described in 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter as that iniquity was already at work in Paul's days as he reminded believers in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 when they had received the Holy Spirit & the belief of the truth at the hearing of the gospel while today's falling away from the faith continues as they preach the receiving of the Holy Spirit separate from salvation with the evidence of tongues and it is happening in droves across the denominations as other signs follows like falling down and uncontrollable laughter and etc. That is not the Holy Spirit they are invoking to come & fall on them to do that; that is the spirit of the antichrist when the real Holy Spirit dwells in believers by faith as Jesus said we will know Him by Him dwelling within us forever at our salvation ( John 14:6,15-16 )

So the way has been broaden in the worship place to include the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, even glorifying the name of "Trinity" which is not the Father's will in how we are to approach the Father in worship. Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father by ( John 14:6 ) and to honor the Son in glorifying the Son is the only way to honor & glorify God the Father ( John 5:22-23 & Philippians 2:5-11 & John 13:31-32 )

Protestant churches do the same thing as Catholic churches do... ignore scripture and follow church's traditions not taught in scripture to do. That is why these movements of the spirit that are apostasy are spreading across the denominations more than ever now in these latter days where faith is hard to find. Jesus warned about this apostasy in Matthew 7:13-27 of how they broaden the way ( Verses 13-14 ) of how false prophets will come in being ecumenical in nature ( Matthew 7:15-16 ) while those taken in will judge various movements as not of Him while others are, ignoring the same rudiment ( the same tree ) of invoking to receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign which proves that all those movements are bad ( Matthew 7:17-20 ) including seeking to receive the Holy Spirit separate from salvation with the evidence of tongues which never comes with interpretation as other self proclaimed signs follow like casting our devils, prophesying in His name, doing wonderful works in His name,( Matthew 7:21-23 ) being drunk in His presence ( Luke 13:26 ) whereby many fall down in these movements of the spirit ( Matthew 7:24-27 ) for not heeding His words that the Son is the only way to come to God the Father in anything ( prayer, fellowship, or worship ). That is why the solution is to strive ye to enter through the straight gate ( Luke 13:24 ) as many saved believers today have fallen away from the faith and are at risk of being left behind to become vessels unto dishonor in His House that will be received later on after the great tribulation as they will be given over unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that their spirits may be saved in the day of Christ which is what excommunication from the Marriage Supper will accomplish as we can trust our faithful Creator in keeping the souls of His saints left behind while they suffer the coming fore on the earth, and the subsequent coming great tribulation as a result and thus the call for believers to get ready by Him to escape. ( Luke 12:40-49 )

May every bride that seeks only His face in worship, honor & glorify the Son in order to honor & glorify the Father in worship because the Bridegroom is coming soon for the abiding bride of Christ.

May those that have gone astray after seducing spirits, return to their first love with His help to rest in Him to chase no more after them and to shun vain & profane babbling and pray normally to give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for known answer to prayers which is the will of God for us to do.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Indeed. But do you know that it is not above, but within, and that these events are not future, but now, each one in his own order?

God will separate the vessels unto honor of repentant believers that trusted Him as their Good Shepherd to have them abide in Him & His words in the KJV to be as His disciples and be willing & ready to go as opposed to the the vessels unto dishonor that did not look to Him for help to discern & to depart from any and all iniquity to be abiding in Him as well as being willing to go. 2 Timothy 2:19-21

That will happen at the pre trib rapture as those wayward & unrepentant saints and even former saved believers left behind shall be received as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation.

 

[ScottA]

If you are referring to physical death as the time people exist the world/Earth, when you think of it, their dead physical bodies actually never exist the world/Earth at all but become part of it in the sense of becoming dust and remaining dust for ever.
If we are talking about spiritual death, the spirit in us can exit "the world" any time and is not confined by any physical body. We can be in the world but not of the world any time we choose to exist the "worldly realm" and abide in the heavenly realm or the kingdom of God which as you are aware is WITHIN YOU.
As for "the living who remain". All living remain in the kingdom of God all the time and that kingdom is always on Earth since it is always WITHIN the living people on the Earth.
None of us ever escape from Life. We are all eternal beings ( eternal spirits living in human bodies) from the beginning and the only part of us that perishes is the physical body. Physical death is simply part of physical Life.

Indeed. And all of this is a mere narrative of what "is", like the lines of a book that is written...not space as considered, not time as experienced, nor matter as it would appear. History, is His story.