Rapture Debate.

[Heb 13:8]

As for being caught up in any clouds. It is foolish to believe anyone will be caught up in literal clouds. The "cloud" is the "cloud of witnesses" ( Heb 12:1) not a literal cloud made of raindrops.

That's actually incorrect exegesis. How else will we avoid the red dragon?

1 Thess 4:17
nephelé: a cloud
Original Word: νεφέλη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: nephelé
Phonetic Spelling: (nef-el'-ay)
Short Definition: a cloud
Definition: a cloud.

Heb 12:1
nephos: a mass of clouds, a cloud
Original Word: νέφος, ους, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: nephos
Phonetic Spelling: (nef'-os)
Short Definition: a cloud, multitude, great company
Definition: a cloud; met: a dense crowd, a multitude, great company.

verses 38-39 simply explain that it will be like the flood in the days of Noah. The flood came to Noah the same as it came to the rest of the world. The "thief" is the same as the LIGHT. It comes to ALL DARKNESS and takes it away.

But Matthew 24:38-39 and 1 Thess 5:4-11 are referring to people. Nonbelievers and believers are people.

It does not happen just once in some mysterious future time. It happens daily.

The coming of the son of Man happens daily?

 

[skyangel]

That's actually incorrect exegesis. How else will we avoid the red dragon?

1 Thess 4:17
nephelé: a cloud
Original Word: νεφέλη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: nephelé
Phonetic Spelling: (nef-el'-ay)
Short Definition: a cloud
Definition: a cloud.

Heb 12:1
nephos: a mass of clouds, a cloud
Original Word: νέφος, ους, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: nephos
Phonetic Spelling: (nef'-os)
Short Definition: a cloud, multitude, great company
Definition: a cloud; met: a dense crowd, a multitude, great company.



But Matthew 24:38-39 and 1 Thess 5:4-11 are referring to people. Nonbelievers and believers are people.



The coming of the son of Man happens daily?

You are hilarious if you think that one day you are actually going to be floating on a literal cloud made of raindrops so you can avoid a red dragon.
Did Noah end up on a literal cloud made of raindrops or was he floating on an ocean of water?

As in the days of Noah....
Matt 24:37
Yes the son of man comes and goes daily. People are sons of men. As a corporate body we are the Son of man (Mankind)
The Son of man is the LIGHT of the world.
YE are the light of the world.
The Light of the world in a physical sense is the sun. The sun comes daily from the east and shines to the west. It appears to come and go but it really never leaves the Earth.
In the same way the spiritual Light of the world also comes from the east and shines to the west daily and never leaves the Earth. Matt 24:27
Matt 28:20
Heb 13:5

 

[Heb 13:8]

You are hilarious if you think that one day you are actually going to be floating on a literal cloud made of raindrops so you can avoid a red dragon.

Well, that's where the air is isn't it, and God's throne will not be on earth at harpazo.

1 Thess 4:17 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

It's time to wake up.

Did Noah end up on a literal cloud made of raindrops or was he floating on an ocean of water?

No he didn't, because rapture is like 4,000 years later after Noah? in our time.

As in the days of Noah....
Matt 24:37
Yes the son of man comes and goes daily.

The coming (parousia) of the son of man in Matt 24 is referring to rapture, the Day of the Lord and Daniels 70th week of tribulation. The rapture is in Matt 24:40-41.

parousia: a presence, a coming
Original Word: παρουσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: parousia
Phonetic Spelling: (par-oo-see'-ah)
Short Definition: presence, a coming, arrival, advent
Definition: (a) presence, (b) a coming, an arrival, advent, especially of the second coming of Christ.

1 Thess 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 2:1-4 Concerning the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the falling away (rapture) occurs first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

 

[skyangel]

But Matthew 24:38-39 and 1 Thess 5:4-11 are referring to people. Nonbelievers and believers are people.

Of course they are. Are you making some point by stating the obvious?

 

[skyangel]

Well, that's where the air is isn't it, and God's throne will not be on earth at harpazo.

1 Thess 4:17 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

It's time to wake up.



No he didn't, because rapture is like 4,000 years later after Noah? in our time.



The coming (parousia) of the son of man in Matt 24 is referring to rapture, the Day of the Lord and Daniels 70th week of tribulation. The rapture is in Matt 24:40-41.

parousia: a presence, a coming
Original Word: παρουσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: parousia
Phonetic Spelling: (par-oo-see'-ah)
Short Definition: presence, a coming, arrival, advent
Definition: (a) presence, (b) a coming, an arrival, advent, especially of the second coming of Christ.

1 Thess 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 2:1-4 Concerning the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the falling away (rapture) occurs first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

If it's time to wake up, you better take your own advice and do it. You are welcome to keep dreaming your dreams but one day you need to wake up. Your false doctrines sure have messed up your mind. You are thoroughly lost in fantasy land.

Air is not just in the sky. It is also WITHIN YOU. I thought I would let you know in case you are not aware of it.
The kingdom of God is also WITHIN YOU (Luke 17:21) and the throne of God also happens to be in the kingdom of God which is WITHIN YOU.

The "falling away" is the falling away of the flesh and a falling away of your carnal mindedness and a falling away from your false Christ. But deceived believers will never "fall away" from their false Christ as long as they continue to think he is real and worship their invisible idol who is not with them at all since they are waiting for him to return one day.

You really are hilarious to be waiting for some person to return when he is supposed to be with you and IN YOU always.
Do you also run around searching for yourself?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Of course they are. Are you making some point by stating the obvious?

The rapture event is going to take non believers like a thief.

If it's time to wake up, you better take your own advice and do it. You are welcome to keep dreaming your dreams but one day you need to wake up. Your false doctrines sure have messed up your mind. You are thoroughly lost in fantasy land.

So you believe the Rev 12 sign coming to pass on 9/23/17 is fantasy.

Air is not just in the sky. It is also WITHIN YOU. I thought I would let you know in case you are not aware of it. The kingdom of God is also WITHIN YOU (Luke 17:21) and the throne of God also happens to be in the kingdom of God which is WITHIN YOU.

The kingdom of God is air? lol

The "falling away" is the falling away of the flesh and a falling away of your carnal mindedness and a falling away from your false Christ.

No, 2 Thess 2:3 falling away is referring to rapture.

You really are hilarious to be waiting for some person to return when he is supposed to be with you and IN YOU always.

The Holy Spirit is within us. Believers in Christ are all waiting to meet Jesus face to face, which we're unable to do until we're changed into incorruptible seed. Are you born again skyangel?

1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[eldios]

No, not really. You must be born again to go to heaven. Sorry eldios..

John 3:3-7 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” 4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 10:9-10 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Jesus was used to speak for the Lord, the Father of us all;

John 12
44: And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.
45: And he who sees me sees him who sent me.
46: I have come as light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.
47: If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48: He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.
49: For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.
50: And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has bidden me."

So it isn't a body named Jesus that saves you, it's the invisible Father who is our Lord and Savior.

John 14
23: Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
24: He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.
25: "These things I have spoken to you, while I am still with you.
26: But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

The same Father who gave Jesus the words to speak is the same exact Father who gives me the words to write and speak from the mind of Christ.

 

[eldios]

The rapture event is going to take non believers like a thief.



So you believe the Rev 12 sign coming to pass on 9/23/17 is fantasy.



The kingdom of God is air? lol



No, 2 Thess 2:3 falling away is referring to rapture.



The Holy Spirit is within us. Believers in Christ are all waiting to meet Jesus face to face, which we're unable to do until we're changed into incorruptible seed. Are you born again skyangel?

1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The religious heathens who wrote the text for the New Testament left out all the original writings of God's servants because they didn't understand what those writings were about. This is why these heathens added their religious traditions and pagan doctrines into the New Testament writings.

 

[n2thelight]

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

When is the end?

 

[ScottA]

"Together" can be interpreted in a couple of ways.
It can be perceived as a group of something all doing the same thing at the same time (together) or it could also be perceived as each individual doing something in their own time and in the end they end up in the same place together regardless of them getting there at different times. Eg. Everyone dies but not all at the same time. When you and I die at different times we will still be together with all our ancestors in the grave. It's not like the dead go any other place while they are waiting for the rest of the living to die with them.
The same principle applies to the eternally living. They exist in a timeless zone. All of us on Earth are always together with the dead as well as with the living who are all around us.
As for being caught up in any clouds. It is foolish to believe anyone will be caught up in literal clouds.
The "cloud" is the "cloud of witnesses" ( Heb 12:1) not a literal cloud made of raindrops.

The key point, is that in the other [eternal] side of the equation...there is no time, or timeline wherein we pop in at different times, or even together - everything just "is." That is defined by God, in the words: "I am."

 

[Heb 13:8]

John 12
44: And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.
45: And he who sees me sees him who sent me.
46: I have come as light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.

and what are we believing in Mr. Lutheran?

So it isn't a body named Jesus that saves you, it's the invisible Father who is our Lord and Savior.

It isn't the body that was nailed to the cross and died for your sins?

The religious heathens who wrote the text for the New Testament left out all the original writings of God's servants because they didn't understand what those writings were about. This is why these heathens added their religious traditions and pagan doctrines into the New Testament writings.

2 Tim 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

9/23/17, Rev 12:5, X etc..

 

[eldios]

and what are we believing in Mr. Lutheran?

Since I'm the last servant of God who was used to testify to His knowledge called Christ, I don't have to believe anything now. That's because I know exactly how we were created.

It isn't the body that was nailed to the cross and died for your sins?

My body has to die for it's own sins like all other inhabitants have to experience.

2 Kings 14:6
But the sons of the slayers he did not put to death, according to what is written in the book of the Law of Moses, as the LORD commanded, saying, "The fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, nor the sons be put to death for the fathers; but each shall be put to death for his own sin."

Ezekiel 18:4
"Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.

Ezekiel 18:20
"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

Galations 6: 5
For every man shall bear his own burden.

Jesus died for reasons you don't understand.

2 Tim 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

9/23/17, Rev 12:5, X etc..

No Christian has ever been used as a servant of God like me, Jesus, Peter, Timothy, Paul and all the prophets who came before them and the other servants who also testified to the knowledge called Christ during this millennium reign of Christ that started 2,000 years ago.

 

[eldios]

When is the end?

This will be the start of the end which will destroy everything on earth in one hour.

Isaiah 24
18: He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
19: The earth is utterly broken, the earth is rent asunder, the earth is violently shaken.
20: The earth staggers like a drunken man, it sways like a hut; its transgression lies heavy upon it, and it falls, and will not rise again.

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

Revelation 18
8: so shall her plagues come in a single day, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she shall be burned with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who judges her."
9: And the kings of the earth, who committed fornication and were wanton with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning;
10: they will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, "Alas! alas! thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgment come."
11: And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn for her, since no one buys their cargo any more,
12: cargo of gold, silver, jewels and pearls, fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet, all kinds of scented wood, all articles of ivory, all articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble,
13: cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls.
14: "The fruit for which thy soul longed has gone from thee, and all thy dainties and thy splendor are lost to thee, never to be found again!"
15: The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning aloud,
16: "Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, bedecked with gold, with jewels, and with pearls!
17: In one hour all this wealth has been laid waste." And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

So when the earth begins to shake violently and doesn't stop, your end is very near.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Since I'm the last servant of God who was used to testify to His knowledge called Christ, I don't have to believe anything now. That's because I know exactly how we were created.

Rom 10:9-10.

 

[skyangel]

The rapture event is going to take non believers like a thief.

So you believe the Rev 12 sign coming to pass on 9/23/17 is fantasy.

Yes you are deluding yourself by placing any date on anything that APPEARS to be some "new" future event in the bible stories.
The reason there is no new "spiritual" event in future is because there is no new thing under the sun. ( Ecc 1:9)
Mark my words, no new spiritual event will happen on the date you wrote above. It will the same as any other day. The sun will rise and set, people will be born and others will die like every other day. No single person is going to float up into literal air to be in literal clouds with anyone.
If you don't wake up to that FACT before the day you are waiting for, you will certainly wake up to the FACT on the day.
Revelation is not about something new that will happen in the future.
It is all about what HAS BEEN, what IS and what IS TO COME. As Ecclesiates 1:9 says, what has been is that which will be and there is no new thing under the sun.
The scripture in Ecc. teaches that the biblical principles are cyclic like seasons are cyclic. You can say a season was and is and will come again because it always comes round again and again and again.
Why do you wish to believe in some rapture "tomorrow" or any other day in the future, when do you do not see a rapture today or yesterday?
False doctrines have led you astray.

The kingdom of God is air? lol

It seems you need to take more time to read what is actually written instead of what you think has been written. Try to read with some understanding and try to understand that I did NOT say the kingdom of God IS AIR. I am trying to explain to you that it is LIKE the air which is not just outside of you but it is also WITHIN YOU.
We are all in the "kingdom of God" which is WITHIN US as well as all around us. It is not some mysterious location outside of the Earth.
The Kingdom of God is not some physical thing (not meat and drink). It is righteousness peace and joy. If you are living in righteousness peace and joy, you are already living in the kingdom of God.
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Those who have no righteousness peace of joy need to find it and those who find it are "taken up" into that "state of being" not into some literal clouds.

No, 2 Thess 2:3 falling away is referring to rapture.

2 Thess 2:2-3..... the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
"At hand" means it is right there, present among you, at the time. The same word translated "at hand" in 2 Thess2:2 is translated as "present" in Romans 8:38, 1 Cor 3:22, Gal 1:4. Look them up. It refers to RIGHT NOW, that which is present at all times, not something that will arrive at some mysterious future time.
The "day of Christ" is always at hand, present with the world NOW. It has no beginning or end.

Now look up the Greek words which have been translated as "the day shall not come, except". There is no mention of any literal "day" in the Greek translation. The word simply means "except".
The "day of Christ" which is every day on this Earth, is a spiritual "day" without beginning or end. It is a time when the LIGHT dispels darkness in the HEARTS and MINDS of people who receive the revelation of the LIGHT being the day.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

That LIGHT does not come to your heart without the "darkness" being revealed. The "falling away" is the falling away of "darkness" in your heart and mind. It is not about unbelievers vs believers as two different "types" of people. It is about the doubts, unbelief and deceptions in your own heart and mind "falling away" as the TRUTH and LIGHT in you replaces those things and you RISE in newness of LIFE in a spiritual sense to be with the LIGHT and TRUTH in Spirit. It is not about some physical flesh physically being raptured into physical clouds.
It is simply referring to the falling away of the "old man" or the "carnal nature" in a spiritual sense and that "old man" being replaced with the "New".

The Holy Spirit is within us. Believers in Christ are all waiting to meet Jesus face to face, which we're unable to do until we're changed into incorruptible seed.

1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

If the Holy Spirit is in you, I speak to that Holy Spirit within you and say Physician heal thyself and open the eyes of the blind body in which you abide so they can actually physically see you.
The so called "believer" which claims to have you within him is foolishly waiting for you to arrive and meet you face to face.
Please lead that person to a mirror so they can take a good look at your reflection in that mirror and while they are in front of the mirror, open their eyes so they can actually SEE you face to face instead of imagining someone outside themselves and waiting for that invisible character to make a physical appearance on planet Earth one day.

Are you born again skyangel?

I AM born of God. (1 John 3:9)
I SEE God in a physical sense as well as in a spiritual sense every day on this Earth in spite of the fact that the Spirit is ultimately invisible to carnally minded people and always will be.
Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

At the same time, I am dead, blind, mute, lame, and can see and do nothing of myself.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
He that has seen me has seen the Father.

 

[skyangel]

When is the end?

The end of something is when it dies and passes away.
There will never be an end to the planet Earth according to Ecc....
Ecc 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

 

[skyangel]

The key point, is that in the other [eternal] side of the equation...there is no time, or timeline wherein we pop in at different times, or even together - everything just "is." That is defined by God, in the words: "I am."

That is true.
However, all people arrive at that revelation at different times in spite of all being there together all the time. The fact is that some can SEE because they walk in the LIGHT and some cannot because they walk in darkness and the so called "light" in them is darkness.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

The scriptures clearly state that there is no grand group resurrection, but rather the coming of "each one in his own order."

1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

God will be judging His House first at the pre trib rapture event, separating the vessels unto dishonor that did not repent from iniquity from attending the Marriage Supper with the vessels unto honor that did look to Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd to deliver them from evil works and preserve them faultless in His kingdom. Jesus will lose none of all the Father has given Him which is why the vessels unto dishonor will be received later on to their terrestrial inheritance after the great tribulation.

Jesus had warned believers that before He appears, there will only be a few that be found abiding in Him because of the falling away from the faith; Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30

So not all saved believers will be coming to the Marriage Supper; those who trust Jesus as their Good Shepherd in helping them to follow Him by the words as kept in the KJV to discern good and evil by in these latter days are the ones that shall find themselves brought home by their hopes being all on Him.

Saved believers living in unrepentant sin and/or doing works of darkness that deny Him, need to trust Jesus to deliver them from all of them to be ready to go. Since we could not saved our selves and it was a HUGE good thing that Jesus has done in order to save us, we should acknowledge our need of Him more as our Good Shepherd to help us discern by the KJV the works of darkness in the churches to day as well as anything else that has crept into our walk with Him in living out our daily lives so that we can lean on Him for help to depart from any and all iniquity.

So I hope readers will take this as a prompt to go before the throne of grace for help from Jesus to help them discern the works of darkness to depart from them and be ready as well as helping them to be willing to go, leaving their lives and loved ones behind in His care to attend the Marriage Supper above. Read Luke 12:40-49 to see His warning to even the disciples and Luke 14:15-33 of His warning to be ready & willing to leave this life behind.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Mark my words, no new spiritual event will happen on the date you wrote above.

Actually, the rapture, day of the lord and the 70th week are all connected to a woman in labor.

Isa 13:6-8 Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty. 7Because of this, all hands will go limp, every heart will melt with fear. 8Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame.

Isa 26:17-21 As a pregnant woman about to give birth writhes and cries out in her pain, so were we in your presence, Lord. 18We were with child, we writhed in labor, but we gave birth to wind. We have not brought salvation to the earth, and the people of the world have not come to life. 19But your dead will live, Lord; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. 20Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. 21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

Jer 30:6-7 Ask and see: Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale? 7How awful that day will be! No other will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it.

1 Thess 5:1-3 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

Revelation is not about something new that will happen in the future. Revelation is not about something new that will happen in the future. It is all about what HAS BEEN, what IS and what IS TO COME.

What is to come IS THE FUTURE.

Why do you wish to believe in some rapture "tomorrow" or any other day in the future,

Because the word harpazo is in the Greek text.

The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away.

Elsewhere it is used to describe how the Spirit caught up Philip near Gaza and brought him to Caesarea, Acts 8:39 and to describe Paul’s experience of being caught up into the third heaven, 2 Cor 12:2-4. Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.

when do you do not see a rapture today or yesterday?

The rapture doesn't happen on any given day. God has an appointed time for everything.

If you go to Leviticus 23 there are seven feasts of the Lord. The word "festival" in Hebrew is translated "moed" which means: appointed time, place, or meeting. The first four feasts have already been fulfilled by Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, and the last three are still future. Jesus fulfilled the first four feasts to the day literally, and the next feast on God's calendar is the Feast of Trumpets which is on 9/21/17 two days before the great sign appears in heaven. Each festival (an appointed time in history) represents an event Jesus fulfilled or will fulfill in the near future. The Feast of Trumpets represents the rapture of the church at the end of the church age, the age of Grace.

1. The Passover (God leads the Jews out of Egypt and slavery)
2. Unleavened Bread (The Death and Burial of Jesus Christ)
3. First Fruits (Resurrection of Jesus Christ)
4. Feast of Weeks/Pentecost (The beginning of the church age, Holy Spirit indwells believers)
5. Feast of Trumpets (The rapture of the church)
6. Day of Atonement (Jesus lands on the Mount of Olives and atones for the sins of Israel at the end of the 7 year tribulation)
7. Feast of Tabernacles (The 1,000 year reign with Christ)

False doctrines have led you astray.

Sure, and not believing in a rapture doesn't erase the word harpazo in scripture.

I am trying to explain to you that it is LIKE the air which is not just outside of you but it is also WITHIN YOU.

The air in 1 Thess 4:17 is air in the atmosphere in which we breathe.

aér: air
Original Word: ἀήρ, ἀέρος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aér
Phonetic Spelling: (ah-ayr')
Short Definition: air
Definition: air, the lower air we breathe.

 

[Heb 13:8]

It is not some mysterious location outside of the Earth.

So you think we'll be changed into our new bodies here on earth? Uhh, no.

1 Cor 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

Col 1:26-27 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord's people. 27To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Those who have no righteousness peace of joy need to find it and those who find it are "taken up" into that "state of being" not into some literal clouds.

We are not changed into our resurrected bodies and continue living on this earth. That is silly. This earth is about to experience God's wrath, and believers are not appointed to wrath, 1 Thess 5:9.

It refers to RIGHT NOW, that which is present at all times, not something that will arrive at some mysterious future time.

So the restrainer (which is the church) has already been taken out of the way in 2 Thess 2?

That LIGHT does not come to your heart without the "darkness" being revealed. The "falling away" is the falling away of "darkness" in your heart and mind. It is not about unbelievers vs believers as two different "types" of people. It is about the doubts, unbelief and deceptions in your own heart and mind "falling away" as the TRUTH and LIGHT in you replaces those things and you RISE in newness of LIFE in a spiritual sense to be with the LIGHT and TRUTH in Spirit. It is not about some physical flesh physically being raptured into physical clouds.
It is simply referring to the falling away of the "old man" or the "carnal nature" in a spiritual sense and that "old man" being replaced with the "New".

Uh no. The light and the darkness are referring to believers in Christ restraining darkness and the Day of the Lord that is soon to come...

Joel 2:1-2 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

Zep 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

1 Thess 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

If the Holy Spirit is in you, I speak to that Holy Spirit within you and say Physician heal thyself and open the eyes of the blind body in which you abide so they can actually physically see you.
The so called "believer" which claims to have you within him is foolishly waiting for you to arrive and meet you face to face.
Please lead that person to a mirror so they can take a good look at your reflection in that mirror and while they are in front of the mirror, open their eyes so they can actually SEE you face to face instead of imagining someone outside themselves and waiting for that invisible character to make a physical appearance on planet Earth one day.

skyangel, i'm referring to literally living with Jesus Christ the person. this doesn't happen until we receiving our resurrected bodies, 1 Cor 15:50-54. Lord help us.