Why water into wine?

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BreadOfLife

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If God knew that we would sin, he would not have been grieved and repented of creating man. Gen. 6:6
Study your Bible
Good grief - this is like speaking to a child Bible student.
The Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit - but written by MEN - with human understanding.

Is God a bird??
Well, Psalm 61:4 speaks of him as having "wings".

Is God spirit or is He flesh??
John 4:24
says that He is SPIRIT - but Exod. 15:8 says that He has nostrils.

I'm going to give you a big word now: "Anthropomorphism"
This is the art of applying HUMAN understanding to DIVINE attributes.

In other words - it's a "dumbing down" of language so that even YOU will understand.
 

Marymog

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Once again, Mary, the C church is the be all end all benchmark for everything that is Christian. It is the Word of God that determines whether the C church, Calvin or myself are on track or not. Calvin has established a theology that grievous to God's character of holiness and love and through that initial premise that God created people to go to heaven and others to hell it has affected every other doctrine that he put forward. As for the C church I'll answer your question with this one; "What is the 2nd commandment, out of the ten, that God gave to Moses? I'll give you the references because it doesn't look like you put much weight into God's Word. Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. Now compare that with the 2nd commandment that the C church says it is. Now for me, if you want to call me a heretic, go right ahead. But please take the time to prove me wrong with Bible verses and make sure they are within context.

"You suspect that the C church", come on, Mary, you want me to answer your suspicion. You don't think my beliefs line up with the Word of God? What beliefs Mary? If you expect me to answer your question, do you think maybe you should a little more specific. Something I may be able to defend or concede on. You're trowing out innuendos and I'm supposed to answer that. Time to get real.

Again, what beliefs are we talking about? Specifics please. And do me a favour, stop trying to debate or discuss things through the means of BoL posts. Try to use your own arguments and rebuttals. At least it gives me an idea what you think and believe and not what someone else does. It should give us a more honest discussion.

Hi perrero,

I am not sure if you are making a statement or asking a question whey you say: "....the C church is the be all end all benchmark for everything that is Christian." Are you saying the Catholic Church IS the be all and end all or are you questioning if it is? There is no question mark at the end or your statement so it APPEARS you are stating they are the be all and end all. I am going to be gracious and assume you meant to put a question mark.

You then go on to say, "...It is the Word of God that determines whether the C church, Calvin or myself are on track or not. Calvin has established a theology that grievous to God's character of holiness..."

ONCE AGAIN: (I am tired of asking this) HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT you are right about YOUR interpretation of the Word of God and the Catholic Church and Calvin are WRONG? You have FAILED to answer that question over MULTIPLE post. You agree with the Catholic Church when they say Calvin was a heretic but you don't agree with them on other matters. Either the RCC is inspired to know the Truth or not.
Is the RCC inspired to KNOW the truth or not???? Is perrero inspired to KNOW the truth or not???

Is The Word of God only accurate if YOU say it is accurate??? Not if the RCC or Calvin or Luther says it is accurate? You can't seem to answer my question. The only thing you say is Calvin is a heretic and the Catholic Church is wrong (unless you agree with the RCC). And you are ALWAYS right. You have me VERY CONFUSED. The RCC is wrong unless you say it is right. WEIRD. Who authorized you to identify HERETICS in Christianity??? Please give me a name of a person???? Not some cryptic (non) answer.

I DID NOT SAY your "beliefs (don't) line up with the Word of God" I CLEARLY said, "I suspect the Catholic Church and many other churches would say" your beliefs do not align with the word of God and they would call you a heretic. Who is right? You or them?

And, once again, you failed to answer my questions.

WHO IS RIGHT? YOU or THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?

PLEASE stop playing a word game with me. You agree with the Catholic Church that Calvin was a heretic. Why is the RCC right on this issue but wrong on everything else??????

HOW can the Catholic Church be right about calling Calvin a heretic but not be right about calling you a heretic. (do you really think the Catholic Church would NOT call you a heretic). PLEASE stop playing word games with me. How can the RCC be RIGHT about calling Calvin a heretic but WRONG about everything else????

PLEASE GET REAL and stop playing word games. My question are VERY CLEAR!!

I believe you are playing word games with me because you can't logically answer my questions and back up your answers on 2 or 3 quotes from scripture (your un-biblical criteria, not mine). You have backed yourself into a corner and now can't defend your un-biblical doctrines.

It's ok. I ain't mad at ya'. I have been destroying non-biblical beliefs like yours for years.

I hope I have educated you in the FULLNESS of scripture instead of your narrow beliefs.

Love....Marymog

Frustrated Mary
 

perrero

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I'm going to give you a big word now: "Anthropomorphism"
I was waiting for that one. Quite surprised you didn't use it earlier. It's the big word people like yourself use when a particular verse doesn't fit your belief or understanding. It's what I call the cop-out explanation.
When the Word says "not to grieve the Holy Spirit". It means plain and simply that. It is possible to grieve God.
When the Word says; Gen 6:7 "And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for i
t repenteth me that I have made them." Here God is clearly saying He repents having created man and in light of that He did destroy man and beast.
But your interpretation is that God did mean it when He said, He would destroy, but when He said that He repented of creating man, oops, that doesn't jive with the Greek theology of God so, ah yes, it must be "Anthropomorphism". Oh, how convenient when things don't fit in our man made theologies.

Jeremiah 32:35 "And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." Surely I must be misreading this, did God just say that the thought never entered His mind that the Israelites would go so far as to throw their children into the fires of Molech. That can't be. It doesn't fit into your theology. Your man made theology must true and the Word of God false. Ah, but hang on we do have our big, big word to the problem. "Anthropomorphism" Voila, we can now sleep at night and rest assure that God is not truly saying what He is saying and that our comfortable theology on omniscience is intact and safe.
That is fine, call me whatever, I will continue to believe that God knows everything that is knowable or that can be known which in essence is the only way for men to have free-will. Anything else is an illusion, the matrix, and very comforting. Nevertheless my God is very capable, for nothing is impossible to Him, to create human beings with true free-will, the kind that can only be known when one actually exercises free-will.
That's why I call you a Calvinist. Because the only difference with you and them is that you have a BIG word "Anthropomorphism" WOW! Would you believe that I actually type that BIG word 3 times without a single mistake!!!

At this point, we are done. You will hold to your BIG word, which is a cop-out and I will trust that God is saying what He is saying in His Word.
You can reply to this, if you want. Most people seem to have the need to beat their chest and have final say.
 

BreadOfLife

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I was waiting for that one. Quite surprised you didn't use it earlier. It's the big word people like yourself use when a particular verse doesn't fit your belief or understanding. It's what I call the cop-out explanation.
When the Word says "not to grieve the Holy Spirit". It means plain and simply that. It is possible to grieve God.
When the Word says; Gen 6:7 "And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for i
t repenteth me that I have made them." Here God is clearly saying He repents having created man and in light of that He did destroy man and beast.
But your interpretation is that God did mean it when He said, He would destroy, but when He said that He repented of creating man, oops, that doesn't jive with the Greek theology of God so, ah yes, it must be "Anthropomorphism". Oh, how convenient when things don't fit in our man made theologies.

Jeremiah 32:35 "And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." Surely I must be misreading this, did God just say that the thought never entered His mind that the Israelites would go so far as to throw their children into the fires of Molech. That can't be. It doesn't fit into your theology. Your man made theology must true and the Word of God false. Ah, but hang on we do have our big, big word to the problem. "Anthropomorphism" Voila, we can now sleep at night and rest assure that God is not truly saying what He is saying and that our comfortable theology on omniscience is intact and safe.
That is fine, call me whatever, I will continue to believe that God knows everything that is knowable or that can be known which in essence is the only way for men to have free-will. Anything else is an illusion, the matrix, and very comforting. Nevertheless my God is very capable, for nothing is impossible to Him, to create human beings with true free-will, the kind that can only be known when one actually exercises free-will.
That's why I call you a Calvinist. Because the only difference with you and them is that you have a BIG word "Anthropomorphism" WOW! Would you believe that I actually type that BIG word 3 times without a single mistake!!!

At this point, we are done. You will hold to your BIG word, which is a cop-out and I will trust that God is saying what He is saying in His Word.
You can reply to this, if you want. Most people seem to have the need to beat their chest and have final say.
Apparently, you've gotten your feelings hurt. My intention was merely to explain to you that not all of Scripture is to be taken literally - although much of it IS meant to be.

God is not a bird and does not have wings.
He doesn't have a human body with fingers and nostrils. God the Son is the ONLY Person of the Trinity who has a carnal body - albeit glorified.

God regrets nothing - because if He DID regret something He created, then it would be a mistake. God doesn't make mistakes - and to say that He does is heresy, plain and simple. This is simply an anthropomorphism so that the reader understands. Unfortunately - YOU don't.

To say that God doesn't know everything in every aspect of time is ALSO heresy.
God is omniscient. You should look that word up . . .

The god that you've created for yourself is a pathetic shell of what the Almighty God is.
MY God - the God of the Bible doesn't make mistakes.
 

perrero

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I am not sure if you are making a statement or asking a question whey you say: "....the C church is NOT the be all end all benchmark for everything that is Christian." Are you saying the Catholic Church IS the be all and end all or are you questioning if it is? There is no question mark at the end or your statement so it APPEARS you are stating they are the be all and end all. I am going to be gracious and assume you meant to put a question mark.
OK, first of all note the missing word above. You seem to think that the C church is the be all end all. It is NOT. IT is the Word of God that should be your only authority. So when I say something about the C church, you need to research the Word to see if I'm right or not and not look at the C church to see if I'm right or not.
I'm trying to establish here the infallibility of God's Word and not of the C church or anyone or anything else. I hope that is clear, if not I give up.


ONCE AGAIN: (I am tired of asking this) HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT you are right about YOUR interpretation of the Word of God and the Catholic Church and Calvin are WRONG? You have FAILED to answer that question over MULTIPLE post. You agree with the Catholic Church when they say Calvin was a heretic but you don't agree with them on other matters. Either the RCC is inspired to know the Truth or not. Is the RCC inspired to KNOW the truth or not???? Is perrero inspired to KNOW the truth or not???

Mary, I'm 62 years old, and I have been saved, born again, redeemed and walking with God for 45 years now. When an individual is born again God translates him from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. God regenerates the dead spirit within you and His Holy Spirit comes to reside in your heart. The Holy Spirit is the one that guides in all truth and witnesses all truth. Now to your question, Man (myself, Calvin) and religions (C church, others) are not perfect. But the Holy Spirit will lead anyone into the truth if they are open to receive it. However, the flesh is weak, and many have distorted the truth and found themselves tto believe things that are contrary to God's Word. Calvin is one of them who believes certain doctrines that do not line up with the Word of God. So how do I know he is wrong? Because his whole TULIP manifesto (Theology) is unbibical. Now I don't know what more you want but you said you didn't want any discussions or conversations where we could explore this further. As for the C church, the Holy Spirit doesn't speak to the religion He again would speak to men who seek the truth. But once again they are not perfect, and many of the forefathers have brought in doctrines that are not in line with God's word. I gave you 14, on which they are wrong. They are wrong because I have searched God's Word for truth and approval and on those issues there is nothing to support the belief.

Is The Word of God only accurate if YOU say it is accurate??? Not if the RCC or Calvin or Luther says it is accurate? You can't seem to answer my question. The only thing you say is Calvin is a heretic and the Catholic Church is wrong (unless you agree with the RCC). And you are ALWAYS right. You have me VERY CONFUSED. The RCC is wrong unless you say it is right. WEIRD. Who authorized you to identify HERETICS in Christianity??? Please give me a name of a person???? Not some cryptic (non) answer.

I seriously don't know what you want here. If I have studied and prayed on the Word and have concluded my interpretation is right, then it is right until God tells me it is not or someone else proves to me it is not. I am open to anything you may put forward to show me something new or correct me if I'm wrong as long as what you say can be supported by scripture. Just your words, reasoning and fiction is not enough.


I DID NOT SAY your "beliefs (don't) line up with the Word of God" I CLEARLY said, "I suspect the Catholic Church and many other churches would say" your beliefs do not align with the word of God and they would call you a heretic. Who is right? You or them?
I believe I'm right, they believe they are right, the onus is upon you to figure that one out. And if you believe the C church is right and I'm wrong then you can try to convince me otherwise.

PLEASE stop playing a word game with me. You agree with the Catholic Church that Calvin was a heretic. Why is the RCC right on this issue but wrong on everything else??????
We are right on this issue because we both agree that Calvin's theology is not what the Word of God teaches.
I didn't say they were wrong on everything else. You ask for specifics, I gave you 14. Do you want more?


It's ok. I ain't mad at ya'. I have been destroying non-biblical beliefs like yours for years.
I hope I have educated you in the FULLNESS of scripture instead of your narrow beliefs.
Do you care to qualify what beliefs like mine?
 
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Marymog

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OK, first of all note the missing word above. You seem to think that the C church is the be all end all. It is NOT. IT is the Word of God that should be your only authority. So when I say something about the C church, you need to research the Word to see if I'm right or not and not look at the C church to see if I'm right or not.
I'm trying to establish here the infallibility of God's Word and not of the C church or anyone or anything else. I hope that is clear, if not I give up.


Mary, I'm 62 years old, and I have been saved, born again, redeemed and walking with God for 45 years now. When an individual is born again God translates him from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. God regenerates the dead spirit within you and His Holy Spirit comes to reside in your heart. The Holy Spirit is the one that guides in all truth and witnesses all truth. Now to your question, Man (myself, Calvin) and religions (C church, others) are not perfect. But the Holy Spirit will lead anyone into the truth if they are open to receive it. However, the flesh is weak, and many have distorted the truth and found themselves tto believe things that are contrary to God's Word. Calvin is one of them who believes certain doctrines that do not line up with the Word of God. So how do I know he is wrong? Because his whole TULIP manifesto (Theology) is unbibical. Now I don't know what more you want but you said you didn't want any discussions or conversations where we could explore this further. As for the C church, the Holy Spirit doesn't speak to the religion He again would speak to men who seek the truth. But once again they are not perfect, and many of the forefathers have brought in doctrines that are not in line with God's word. I gave you 14, on which they are wrong. They are wrong because I have searched God's Word for truth and approval and on those issues there is nothing to support the belief.

I seriously don't know what you want here. If I have studied and prayed on the Word and have concluded my interpretation is right, then it is right until God tells me it is not or someone else proves to me it is not. I am open to anything you may put forward to show me something new or correct me if I'm wrong as long as what you say can be supported by scripture. Just your words, reasoning and fiction is not enough.

I believe I'm right, they believe they are right, the onus is upon you to figure that one out. And if you believe the C church is right and I'm wrong then you can try to convince me otherwise.

We are right on this issue because we both agree that Calvin's theology is not what the Word of God teaches.
I didn't say they were wrong on everything else. You ask for specifics, I gave you 14. Do you want more?


Do you care to qualify what beliefs like mine?

Hola,

I finally think you answered my question.

With the guidance of the Holy Spirit I can interpret scripture. However, if perrero, who is also guided by the Holy Spirit, shows me I am wrong by using scripture then I should change my beliefs.

If a Catholic approaches me that says they were guided by the Holy Spirit and proves to me that perrero and I are both wrong and they use scripture to prove us wrong then I must change my beliefs again. Perrero may continue to believe that he is right, even though my new Catholic friend and I tell perrero he is wrong and we use scripture to back it up. And perrero may actually be right and my new friend and I may actually be wrong since none of us are perfect. Even though I feel like the Holy Spirit will led me into the truth because I was open to receive it, I also have to remember that the flesh is weak and my flesh may have been weak when my new friend convinced me you were wrong. I have got to remember that many have distorted the truth and found themselves to believe things that are contrary to God's Word.

However, I can never really know who has distorted the Truth and I can never be sure if I am believing things contrary to Gods Word because 30 years from now perrero or a Catholic may approach me and show me where I have been interpreting scripture wrong for the last 30 years. And then two years later a Lutheran, who says he is guided by the Holy Spirit, uses scripture to prove he is right and everyone else wrong.

According to your theory someday a Calvinist, who is guided by the Holy Spirit, could approach you and use scripture to prove to you that CALVIN was right and you and the Catholic Church are wrong.

What confuses me is why your Truth, which is guided by the Holy Spirit, nullifies my new Catholic friend and the Lutheran's and Calvins and my Holy Spirit Truth?

Is the Holy Spirit confused or are we all just deceiving ourselves into thinking the Holy Spirit has guided us PERSONALLY into the Truth?

Qualifying Beliefs like yours: Baptism (see, I do answer your question's)

Mary
 

perrero

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I hope I have educated you in the FULLNESS of scripture instead of your narrow beliefs.
I have gone back to as far as post #142, which means I have checked post #242, #219, #203, #173, #170, #163, #156, #154, #148, #147, #142.
Out of these you have not quoted ONE passage of scripture in support of anything you have been saying or arguing. And you dare make the statement above??????
In post#142, and #147 you clearly state that, because you do not have any verse to support your belief you are using your OWN logic which was to conclude that Mary was right and JESUS was WRONG. And you dare make the statement above????? In post #148 you talk about a Gift of Interpretation of Scripture which doesn't exist at all in Scripture. And you dare make the statement above????? Post #148 I gave you 14 erroneous doctrines of the C church and you have not countered one of them with scripture to support them. And you dare make the statement above????? In Post #156 I answered your question in as much as you said "Thank you" but you have not answered me about the 2nd Commandment. And you dare make the statement above?????
Who is schooling who?
You accuse Sword of not doing his research when it is clear you don't do any yourself to defend your positions. All your posts are talk, talk, talk and talk is cheap. You need to start producing some evidence or try another forum where people will be less demanding.

You took a verse out of context in the scriptures and you want me to believe you are right on Infant Baptism.
You say my definition of the Greek Word Baptezo is narrow when you say that it means DIP.
Greek #907 Baptizo
  1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)

  2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe

  3. to overwhelm
This word should not be confused with baptô (911). The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped' (baptô) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizô) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.
βαπτίζω baptízō, bap-tid'-zo; from a derivative of G911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:—Baptist, baptize, wash.

You are far from schooling anyone Mary, especially when your arguments come from your new C friend.
 
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perrero

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However, I can never really know who has distorted the Truth and I can never be sure if I am believing things contrary to Gods Word because 30 years from now perrero or a Catholic may approach me and show me where I have been interpreting scripture wrong for the last 30 years. And then two years later a Lutheran, who says he is guided by the Holy Spirit, uses scripture to prove he is right and everyone else wrong.
And that is why the onus is on you to do your research, to back things up with the Word (within context) and pray. Because in the end you will be accountable not anyone else. And if you go about teaching what you believe, you will also be doubly judged on what you say.
Now what about that 2nd Commandment, do you know what it is?
 

Mungo

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I have gone back to as far as post #142, which means I have checked post #242, #219, #203, #173, #170, #163, #156, #154, #148, #147, #142.
Out of these you have not quoted ONE passage of scripture in support of anything you have been saying or arguing. And you dare make the statement above??????
In post#142, and #147 you clearly state that, because you do not have any verse to support your belief you are using your OWN logic which was to conclude that Mary was right and JESUS was WRONG. And you dare make the statement above????? In post #148 you talk about a Gift of Interpretation of Scripture which doesn't exist at all in Scripture. And you dare make the statement above????? Post #148 I gave you 14 erroneous doctrines of the C church and you have not countered one of them with scripture to support them. And you dare make the statement above????? In Post #156 I answered your question in as much as you said "Thank you" but you have not answered me about the 2nd Commandment. And you dare make the statement above?????
Who is schooling who?
You accuse Sword of not doing his research when it is clear you don't do any yourself to defend your positions. All your posts are talk, talk, talk and talk is cheap. You need to start producing some evidence or try another forum where people will be less demanding.

You took a verse out of context in the scriptures and you want me to believe you are right on Infant Baptism.
You say my definition of the Greek Word Baptezo is narrow when you say that it means DIP.
Greek #907 Baptizo
  1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)

  2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe

  3. to overwhelm
This word should not be confused with baptô (911). The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped' (baptô) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizô) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.
βαπτίζω baptízō, bap-tid'-zo; from a derivative of G911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:—Baptist, baptize, wash.

You are far from schooling anyone Mary, especially when your arguments come from your new C friend.

I haven't been following this discussion on bapto and baptizo but I think the exact Greek meaning is not very relevant.

I agree that baptise comes from the Greek word baptizo which means immerse or dip or plunge. However I think it is wrong to treat baptizo as simply a Greek word with various meanings. It is the name of a Jewish, and later Christian, ritual and therefore expresses the meaning of the ritual and not of all the Greek possibilities.

The origins are the ritual purification of full body washing known in Hebrew as tevilah in a mikvah (ritual bath). Mikvah means a gathering of water and so a river is a mikvah. Since rivers were not commonly available it was any suitable pool of water, but not a free standing bath in the modern sense. It had to be dug into the ground, or built into the structure of a building and should contain rainwater with a minimum of 77 gallons. Bathing should be by total immersion and naked to ensure every part of the body was purified.

According to a Jewish source, when the Jews and Evangelists wrote in Greek they avoided the Greek words for bathe and bath because of the sexual connotations. The Greek communal bathing was a place of gossip (often crude), communal nudity and homosexuality. So they used the word baptizo (and it’s derivatives) instead. The word therefore expresses this ritual purification in water.

Christians tool over this ritual but we don't need to follow the Jewish rules for a mikvah, nor the exact Jewish method of tevilah.
 

Mungo

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Now what about that 2nd Commandment, do you know what it is?

That is one of those trick questions but I know the answer. The second of the Ten Commandments is:

Do not make a covenant with the inhabitants of that land; else, when they render their wanton worship to their gods and sacrifice to them, one of them may invite you and you may partake of his sacrifice. Neither shall you take their daughters as wives for your sons; otherwise, when their daughters render their wanton worship to their gods, they will make your sons do the same.
 

Dcopymope

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That is one of those trick questions but I know the answer. The second of the Ten Commandments is:

Do not make a covenant with the inhabitants of that land; else, when they render their wanton worship to their gods and sacrifice to them, one of them may invite you and you may partake of his sacrifice. Neither shall you take their daughters as wives for your sons; otherwise, when their daughters render their wanton worship to their gods, they will make your sons do the same.

In other words, us Christians stick to our groups and the Muslims, Athiests, Hindus etc will stick to their own people. We are told even in the new testament not to yoke ourselves with heathens. No mixing among each other, for doing so only brings calamity and the vexation of your heart, mind and soul. There is no such thing as true fellowship with unrighteousness. Satan's advocates in the media, education, and governments increasingly push for unification, but the word of God teaches us to do the exact opposite, to separate ourselves from the world and become a light unto it as per Jesus Christ.
 

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In other words, us Christians stick to our groups and the Muslims, Athiests, Hindus etc will stick to their own people. We are told even in the new testament not to yoke ourselves with heathens. No mixing among each other, for doing so only brings calamity and the vexation of your heart, mind and soul. There is no such thing as true fellowship with unrighteousness. Satan's advocates in the media, education, and governments increasingly push for unification, but the word of God teaches us to do the exact opposite, to separate ourselves from the world and become a light unto it as per Jesus Christ.
um, wadr that is not God's 2nd commandment anyway, it was the Catholic 2nd commandment, so in other words your perspective here is kind of misdirected, even if it has some validity, some, as we are directed not to mix cultures. Rendering judgements such as "heathen" apropos of nothing is on you though lol
 

BreadOfLife

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OK, first of all note the missing word above. You seem to think that the C church is the be all end all. It is NOT. IT is the Word of God that should be your only authority. So when I say something about the C church, you need to research the Word to see if I'm right or not and not look at the C church to see if I'm right or not.
I'm trying to establish here the infallibility of God's Word and not of the C church or anyone or anything else. I hope that is clear, if not I give up.
Can you show me where the Bible says that the Bile is our "Final Authority"?
Of course you can't because the Bible NEVER makes this claim.

It DOES state, however -= the the CHURCH is the Final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).
Mary, I'm 62 years old, and I have been saved, born again, redeemed and walking with God for 45 years now. When an individual is born again God translates him from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. God regenerates the dead spirit within you and His Holy Spirit comes to reside in your heart. The Holy Spirit is the one that guides in all truth and witnesses all truth. Now to your question, Man (myself, Calvin) and religions (C church, others) are not perfect. But the Holy Spirit will lead anyone into the truth if they are open to receive it. However, the flesh is weak, and many have distorted the truth and found themselves tto believe things that are contrary to God's Word. Calvin is one of them who believes certain doctrines that do not line up with the Word of God. So how do I know he is wrong? Because his whole TULIP manifesto (Theology) is unbibical. Now I don't know what more you want but you said you didn't want any discussions or conversations where we could explore this further. As for the C church, the Holy Spirit doesn't speak to the religion He again would speak to men who seek the truth. But once again they are not perfect, and many of the forefathers have brought in doctrines that are not in line with God's word. I gave you 14, on which they are wrong. They are wrong because I have searched God's Word for truth and approval and on those issues there is nothing to support the belief.
Apparently - you don't have a clue as to what the Bible says about Christ's Church - so allow me to educate you:

It's not the Church vs. Christ.
It's not Jesus OR the Church.
This is what the Bible has to say on the matter - so pay attention:

- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.

- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).

- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).

- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).

- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

- Jesus gave His Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).
 

Truth

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"Water into wine" was the first thread that I made post on, I came onto this web-site to exercise my mind, to interact with other believers! to Hopefully find a Joy with brothers and sisters in the Faith. Common Ground! even with differences of opinion, this thread is a good thread, makes you want to read through the scriptures again to see what we might have missed. Unfortunately some people find it hard to contain their lack of love, even for their enemies. I have wanted to post on other threads but I read how others react, and my heart becomes sorrowful, like it takes the wind out of my sail. thank you for this thread, we need to have other ones that spark our desire to search the scriptures as this one has for me. yes this post has deteriorated from its original inception, sad state of affairs!!!
 

perrero

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"Water into wine" was the first thread that I made post on, I came onto this web-site to exercise my mind, to interact with other believers! to Hopefully find a Joy with brothers and sisters in the Faith. Common Ground! even with differences of opinion, this thread is a good thread, makes you want to read through the scriptures again to see what we might have missed. Unfortunately some people find it hard to contain their lack of love, even for their enemies. I have wanted to post on other threads but I read how others react, and my heart becomes sorrowful, like it takes the wind out of my sail. thank you for this thread, we need to have other ones that spark our desire to search the scriptures as this one has for me. yes this post has deteriorated from its original inception, sad state of affairs!!!
I do agree and yet find myself also guilty of what you say.
I am thankful that you were challenged to dig deeper into the Word for confirmation and clarity. This the initial goal I wish to achieve. But when someone comes along and attempts hijack or distort what I know God revealed to me, i guess I can easily get carried away. I will take this post of yours under advisement.
Please do not give up yet as there is much in here that is beneficial if someone is teachable.
Check out my other Teachings if you liked this one.
Who was the Good samaritan?

Is there a recipe for discipleship?

How fast are you going?

The Crucible of Fire
 
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Marymog

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I have gone back to as far as post #142, which means I have checked post #242, #219, #203, #173, #170, #163, #156, #154, #148, #147, #142.
Out of these you have not quoted ONE passage of scripture in support of anything you have been saying or arguing. And you dare make the statement above??????
In post#142, and #147 you clearly state that, because you do not have any verse to support your belief you are using your OWN logic which was to conclude that Mary was right and JESUS was WRONG. And you dare make the statement above????? In post #148 you talk about a Gift of Interpretation of Scripture which doesn't exist at all in Scripture. And you dare make the statement above????? Post #148 I gave you 14 erroneous doctrines of the C church and you have not countered one of them with scripture to support them. And you dare make the statement above????? In Post #156 I answered your question in as much as you said "Thank you" but you have not answered me about the 2nd Commandment. And you dare make the statement above?????
Who is schooling who?
You accuse Sword of not doing his research when it is clear you don't do any yourself to defend your positions. All your posts are talk, talk, talk and talk is cheap. You need to start producing some evidence or try another forum where people will be less demanding.

You took a verse out of context in the scriptures and you want me to believe you are right on Infant Baptism.
You say my definition of the Greek Word Baptezo is narrow when you say that it means DIP.
Greek #907 Baptizo
  1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)

  2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe

  3. to overwhelm
This word should not be confused with baptô (911). The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped' (baptô) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizô) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.
βαπτίζω baptízō, bap-tid'-zo; from a derivative of G911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:—Baptist, baptize, wash.

You are far from schooling anyone Mary, especially when your arguments come from your new C friend.

I am in good company perrero!!

I used scripture AND 2,000 years of Christian History to support infant baptism. So did the FIRST CENTURY CHRISTIANS who walked and talked with the Apostles so it was more than likely a COMMON PRACTICE when the Apostles were alive. The CHURCH FATHERS used scripture to support infant baptism. I am truly in good company.

You perrero, by your own admittance, are unable to produce NOTHING from scripture that says DO NOT BAPTIZE INFANTS. Your tradition of not baptizing infants is only 500 years old.

I will respond to your other false accusations later.

Love...Mary
 

bbyrd009

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"Water into wine" was the first thread that I made post on, I came onto this web-site to exercise my mind, to interact with other believers! to Hopefully find a Joy with brothers and sisters in the Faith. Common Ground! even with differences of opinion, this thread is a good thread, makes you want to read through the scriptures again to see what we might have missed. Unfortunately some people find it hard to contain their lack of love, even for their enemies. I have wanted to post on other threads but I read how others react, and my heart becomes sorrowful, like it takes the wind out of my sail. thank you for this thread, we need to have other ones that spark our desire to search the scriptures as this one has for me. yes this post has deteriorated from its original inception, sad state of affairs!!!
well, forums are kind of like a crucible, they are not IRL.
 

BreadOfLife

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well, forums are kind of like a crucible, they are not IRL.
And NOBODY likes an educated Catholic who has no tolerance for lies.
It's more fun when they're mousy, quiet and submissive . . .