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BreadOfLife

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Why are you so keen to site God raising up leaders, but not to hear what he has [actually] said to Peter?

Peter was not even the subject of Christ's question to Peter - and you have completely missed His point.

As for the power to bind or loose, read further down in chapter 18. Jesus clarifies (what you have mistaken), addressing all his disciples, not just Peter, and not referring to who would be revered, but how the greatest would be like a little child.
First of all - Peter IS the subject of what Jesus was speaking about in Matt. 16:16-19.
It starts out with a recognition of the fact that the truth about Jesus was revealed by God.

Jesus then goes on to bless Peter - not one, not two - but THREE times:
(a) "Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jonah,"
(b) "You are Kepha and on this Kepha, I will build my church."
(c) "I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven."


As for the power to bind and loose - yes, Jesus gave it later to ALL of the Apostles.
HOWEVER, only Peter was given the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. This clearly illustrates the point of his Primacy over the others.

Jesus stated that the greatest would SERVE all of the others (Matt. 23:11, Luke 22:26) - just as HE served all of them.
That's why the official title of the Pope is: "The servant of the servants of God"
 

Job

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The reason you think veneration is worship is because you don't know what worship is.

Your worship has the appearance of evil. Bowing to images and statues. The scriptures forbid this kind of worship.

Leviticus 26
1 ‘You shall not make idols for yourselves; neither a carved image nor a sacred pillar shall you rear up for yourselves; nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land, to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God.



Abstain from all appearance of evil.
m
 

ScottA

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So you have no respect for the martyrs, and don't have a clue what was taught in the first 3 centuries, and think there should never have been one person to lead the church. History is your enemy; your concept of "church" didn't exist until recently.

Isaiah 22:19-25

Isaiah 22: 19
Shebna is described as having an "office" and a "station." An office, in order for it to be an office, has successors. In order for an earthly kingdom to last, a succession of representatives is required.

This was the case in the Old Covenant kingdom, and it is the case in the New Covenant kingdom which fulfills the Old Covenant. Jesus our King is in heaven, but He has appointed a chief steward over His household with a plan for a succession of representatives.

Isaiah 22:21 - Eliakim is called “father” or “papa” of God's people. The word Pope used by Catholics to describe the chief steward of the earthly kingdom simply means papa or father in Italian. This is why Catholics call the leader of the Church "Pope." The Pope is the father of God's people, the chief steward of the earthly kingdom and Christ's representative on earth.

Isaiah 22:22 - we see that the keys of the kingdom pass from Shebna to Eliakim. Thus, the keys are used not only as a symbol of authority, but also to facilitate succession. The keys of Christ's kingdom have passed from Peter to Linus all the way to our current Pope with an unbroken lineage for almost 2,000 years.

Isaiah 22:23 And I will fasten him like a peg in a sure place, and he will become a throne of honor to his father's house.

Revelation 1:18; Revelation 3:7; Revelation 9:1; Revelation 20:1 - Jesus' "keys" undeniably represent authority. By using the word "keys," Jesus gives Peter authority on earth over the new Davidic kingdom, and this was not seriously questioned by anyone until the Protestant reformation 1,500 years later after Peter’s investiture.

Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: `The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens.

Matthew 16:19 - whatever Peter binds or looses on earth is bound or loosed in heaven / when the Prime Minister to the King opens, no one shuts. This "binding and loosing" authority allows the keeper of the keys to establish "halakah," or rules of conduct for the members of the kingdom he serves.

Jeremiah 33:17 For thus saith the Lord: There shall not be cut off from David a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel.

Jeremiah prophesies that David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the earthly House of Israel. Either this is a false prophecy, or David has a successor of representatives throughout history.

Daniel 2:44 But in the days of those kingdoms the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, and his kingdom shall not be delivered up to another people, and it shall break in pieces, and shall consume all these kingdoms, and itself shall stand for ever.

Daniel prophesies an earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed. Either this is a false prophecy, or the earthly kingdom requires succession.
I am no respecter of persons.

The old testament leadership does not apply to the church. They are "the dead in Christ", we are "the living in Christ."

You are wrong about "the keys' being given to Peter (read further down in chapter 18 - He clarifies that the keys applied to all His disciples, not just Peter). Peter wasn't even the subject of Christ's question of him, Jesus simply used Peter to make his greater point of how He would build His church by revelations from His Father in heaven (that's what it says).
 

BreadOfLife

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Luke 6:13
"And when it was day, He called His disciples to Himself;and from them He chose twelve whom He also named apostles:"

And I ask you again:
When did Jesus EVER call Peter, "Apostle."

YOU stated the following:
"No. Jesus gave him the title of "apostle"...nothing more."

Jesus gave Simon the title of "Kepha".
I even proved it by showing you that Paul refers to him as "Cephas" in his letters.
NOT Simon
NOT "Petros"
He calls him "CEPHAS" because it is the closest transliteration of the Aramaic "KEPHA", which means "ROCK".
Because He didn't single him out as a leader (any more than he singled out the rest of His apostles).
When you (and the Catholic church) believe Christ singled out Peter, he was not even the subject of Jesus' question - Jesus simply used Peter to make his point of how He (not who) would build His church: that being by revelation from His Father in heaven.
WRONG - and I proved this in my last post (#701).
 

BreadOfLife

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Your worship has the appearance of evil. Bowing to images and statues. The scriptures forbid this kind of worship.

Leviticus 26
1 ‘You shall not make idols for yourselves; neither a carved image nor a sacred pillar shall you rear up for yourselves; nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land, to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God.

Abstain from all appearance of evil.m
Actually - YOU need to abstain from evil itself - which includes all the lying you've engaged in.
 

BreadOfLife

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I am no respecter of persons.
Then you violate God's Commandment which says you must HONOR your father and mother (Exod. 20:12).
Honoring them is FAR more than simply respecting them.

Don't just allude to Scripture or quote it.
LEARN what it means . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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all you proved is that Catholics seek an earthly king, not that Peter was special, sorry.
The Pope isn't an earthly "king".
Peter wasn't an earthly "king".

In your ignorance you make these asinine comments . . .
 

bbyrd009

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The Pope isn't an earthly "king".
Peter wasn't an earthly "king".

In your ignorance you make these asinine comments . . .
actually what i'm doing is making random statements, and then when they set you off i know that i am on the right track. Of course the earthly king thing is a foregone conclusion, but i understand that having been raised with lies, it can be impossible for you to see the truth.
 

Job

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It is so insulting that you think I'm that stupid.

I've never stated that I thought the individual catholic was stupid. Misguided yes, stupid no. If the material I post makes you uncomfortable, you should ask yourself why.
 

bbyrd009

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Then you violate God's Commandment which says you must HONOR your father and mother (Exod. 20:12).
Honoring them is FAR more than simply respecting them.

Don't just allude to Scripture or quote it.
LEARN what it means . . .
this is what happens when you go to the world to have your Bible interpreted for you. You are aware that deprogramming from your cult is often paid for by insurance now, right? Iow you don't have to die an emotionally spoiled 4 year old if you don't want to.
 
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Job

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So when the Spirit helps YOU properly interpret His word and the Spirit helps ME properly interpret His word but both of us have DIFFERENT INTERPETATIONS how do we resolve that?

Ever heard of the concept "iron sharpens iron"?
 

Marymog

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No, I simply took a chance, even dared Him to answer.

"First hand" means, I was not taught and did not hear from others, but received directly from God.

Yes, if denominational teachings do not wash with what God has revealed to me, then the error is clear.

It is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me - and it is He who is not wrong.
Hi ScottA,

You dared God to answer you? How do you KNOW that it wasn't the antichrist answering you? When God is speaking to you directly how do you KNOW it is the spirit of Truth or God answering you? How can you be SURE it is not the spirit of falsehood? (1John 4)?

Sounds like you are a prophet who has been given a special gift by God since God has revealed to YOU what is error and what isn't error in denominational teachings. Do you consider yourself a prophet? Prophet defined: a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God

Catholics, Methodist, Lutheran's etc. believe that Christ lives in them also. Their beliefs are different than yours. How do you KNOW that your belief is The Truth and their belief is in error? Are you suggesting that God is not revealing the truth to them, only you?

In a different post you said, “I am no respecter of persons” when you were asked about respecting martyrs (who are persons). The Apostles were persons AND martyrs. Do you not respect the Apostles or the Apostolic Fathers?

I agree with you
that HE is not wrong. We are not talking about Him, we are talking about YOU. You have admitted that you are not perfect. Since you are not perfect could you be wrong when you tell BreadOfLife or ME or the Methodist or the Lutherans that their teachings are in ERROR? Or are you always right when you tell us we are in error?

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

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Jesus didn't pray to images.
My dear Job,

You are VERY GOOD at selectively quoting scripture AND me.

You left out this part of my post: Do you, Job, ever kneel and pray?

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

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Ever heard of the concept "iron sharpens iron"?
My good friend Job,

Proverbs has nothing to do with our conversation. You are very good at not answering questions AND selectively quoting scripture AND me. So I ask you AGAIN:

Does the spirit let YOU know who the "OTHERS"are? Or are the "OTHERS" right only if they agree with YOU?

Curious Mary
 

Job

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Deuteronomy 4
2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.



 

Marymog

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It's been years since I've done that.

Better?
Yes. Better. Thank you for engaging in a conversation instead of just making statements.

You posted a picture of the Pope kneeling in prayer. Jesus knelt in prayer. The Pope kneels in prayer probably more than you and more than likely more than me. I think that is a beautiful thing the Pope was doing which was inspired by the ACTIONS of Jesus.

The Pope was in front of a picture that reminded him of Mary, the mother of Jesus (God). I don't see anything wrong with that. I have pictures of my deceased mother in my house, however, that doesn't mean I worship the picture.

Do you recall what prompted you to kneel in prayer and where you were when you did it? The surroundings?

The last time I knelt in prayer I had just read a vicious email from one of my brothers. I fell on my knees and prayed for him. I looked at a cross that I keep next to my computer to remind me of Him and what He would want me to do. Was I praying to that cross? Of course not. That is silly.

That brother has since gone to a psychiatrist to work out HIS issues and he has become less vicious. Did that cross I was looking at while i was praying help my brother or did Jesus (God) help him?

In my house I have the afformentioned cross and a picture of Jesus walking on water that I bought for my mother 40 years ago and post-it notes on my mirror with scripture. They, at times, remind me I should pray more often. I don't pray to the cross or the picture or the post-it notes. They are just a good reminder.

Love, Mary