Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[Stranger]

Try to understand what Jesus was saying.

Jesus said he was DEAD.
Was he physically dead? No - he was spiritually dead.

Jesus said he was LOST.
Was he physically lost? No - he was spiritually lost.

He was later found and came back to life - SPIRITUALLY.
That's the entire point of the parable.

Nothing in the story says the son quit being the son. And that is the point you are trying to make. Even though the son was separated, dead, to the father, he was still a son. This is not a picture of a loss of salvation. It is a picture of salvation.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

And I never said that we could - where are you getting that??
We cannot make ourselves believe by a work - but we can reject God by our own doing.

You cannot make yourself believe by a work. You cannot disbelieve by a work. And how do you get saved? By faith.

Stranger

 

[Mick_Alexander]

Not so.

The parable is, first of all, not about those who are "saved". Again, "saved" by definition, means "saved." You may want to question whether or not God is true or a liar, but I do not and know better.

Then, the parable is not about "one faithful servant." It is about multiple possible scenarios with those who had not yet received the saving Holy Spirit of God. Jesus eluded to His going away and return, and what was possible among those who were waiting on his promise of salvation.

Finally, the parable does not address the saved who have received the Holy Spirit, but rather tells of a future time of His sending holy "fire on the earth" - this is the time of salvation, and not before. Then He goes on in verses 54-56 to address the timing...which you have mistaken.

I can only say that you are at odds with the 30 commentaries I have as well as many others available online. Can you show me one, just one, that supports what you say.

You say, "the parable is not about one faithful servant" yet v.42 speaks of "the faithful and wise manager". "the" is the definite article pointing to just one person and "manager" is singular.
V.43 says "that servant". "that" is the definite article meaning it refers to just one person.
V.45 also uses the definite article in referring to the one and only servant.
There can be no question that Jesus was talking about one faithful and wise servant.

Regarding whether or not the servant was saved, Jesus spoke of a future time - after He had ascended. Don't you think that Peter, along with the others, was saved at that time? In my mind, there is not question that he was. In John 20:22 we are told the disciples received the Spirit: "And with that he breathed on them and said, 'Receive the Holy Spirit'".

God bless,
Mick

 

[Mick_Alexander]

BreadOfLife

Save your grocery lists for another, as I have told you before.

(2 Peter 2:1) is clear. It is addressed to false teachers and prophets. They are not saved.

Stranger

Not saved you say? Then what does 2Pe 2:15 mean? "They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor..." (The KJV says that they have left the right way and gone astray)

In the above verse, "the", in "the straight way", is the definite article telling us that there is only one straight way. Is there a straight way or a right way other than Jesus?

God bless,
Mick

 

[Mick_Alexander]

Is eternal life eternal salvation?

Eternal life is the gift we eventually receive from persevering in faith. Rom 2:7 says, "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life".

God bless,
Mick

 

[Stranger]

Not saved you say? Then what does 2Pe 2:15 mean? "They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor..." (The KJV says that they have left the right way and gone astray)

In the above verse, "the", in "the straight way", is the definite article telling us that there is only one straight way. Is there a straight way or a right way other than Jesus?

God bless,
Mick

These are those who have denied the Lord, (2 Peter 2:1), and yes they have 'forsaken the right way' as the KJV says. They are not believers. They are false prophets and teachers.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nothing in the story says the son quit being the son. And that is the point you are trying to make. Even though the son was separated, dead, to the father, he was still a son. This is not a picture of a loss of salvation. It is a picture of salvation.

Stranger

Sorry - but there is NO Gospel precedent for Jesus referring to "death" that doesn't mean spiritual death.
Nice try . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You cannot make yourself believe by a work. You cannot disbelieve by a work. And how do you get saved? By faith.

Stranger

You cannot disbelieve by your own doing??
WHERE in the Bible does it make this claim??

Chapter and verse, please.

 

[Stranger]

Eternal life is the gift we eventually receive from persevering in faith. Rom 2:7 says, "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life".

God bless,
Mick

Then salvation is not by faith. According to you. And (Rom. 2:7) speaks to those who want to be judged by works. You will be found wanting. you misunderstand (Rom. 2:7).

Stranger

 

[Mick_Alexander]

(2 Peter 2:1) gives you the context of who is being addressed. "denying the Lord that bought them". Pretty simple. They are not Christian.

Even our witness to others of Christ brings salvation or damnation. To one we are the savour of life unto life. To the other we are a savour of death unto death. (2 Cor. 2:14-15) But in both God is pleased with our witness. Those who deny do so willingly. We show them the way, but we cannot make them believe.

Stranger

Yes, they deny the Lord who bought them. They can only deny the Lord who bought them because they were bought in the first place. 1Co 6:20 says about Christians, "you were bought at a price". Again, they could only deny the Lord because they had been previously bought.

God bless,
Mick

 

[Stranger]

Sorry - but there is NO Gospel precedent for Jesus referring to "death" that doesn't mean spiritual death.
Nice try . . .

The story of the prodigal son is a story of salvation. Not a story of a loss of salvation. Death means separation.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You cannot disbelieve by your own doing??
WHERE in the Bible does it make this claim??

Chapter and verse, please.

Chapter and verse how you can quit believing by a work. Be specific.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

These are those who have denied the Lord, (2 Peter 2:1), and yes they have 'forsaken the right way' as the KJV says. They are not believers. They are false prophets and teachers.

Stranger

Wrong.

The Greek word used here is καταλειπο (kat-al-i'-po), which means:
1) to leave behind; to depart from

This speaks to the reality of people on the RIGHT road who veered off track.
They WERE walking with God and eventually walked away . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The story of the prodigal son is a story of salvation. Not a story of a loss of salvation. Death means separation.

Stranger

Absolutely.
Spiritual death is separation from God.

We finally agree . . .

 

[Stranger]

Yes, they deny the Lord who bought them. They can only deny the Lord who bought them because they were bought in the first place. 1Co 6:20 says about Christians, "you were bought at a price". Again, they could only deny the Lord because they had been previously bought.

God bless,
Mick

Please...Jesus Christ bought the whole of Adams race. That doesn't mean the whole are saved. Even though Christ paid the price, those who deny are not saved.

Stranger

 

[Mick_Alexander]

This to me is nothing whatsoever to do with salvation, but faithfulness in committed service.

Amen, it is to do with faithfulness. If the servant remains faithful he will be rewarded, if not he will be condemned. That is the plain reading of the parable.

In vs. 43-44 the servant is rewarded for being faithful.
In vs. 45-46 the servant is condemned for unfaithfulness.

God bless,
Mick

 

[Stranger]

Wrong.

The Greek word used here is καταλειπο (kat-al-i'-po), which means:
1) to leave behind; to depart from

This speaks to the reality of people on the RIGHT road who veered off track.
They WERE walking with God and eventually walked away . . .

Save your greek gymnastics for another. I'm used to them already. They were false teachers, denying the Lord, they forsook the right way. They were false from the beginning.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Chapter and verse how you can quit believing by a work. Be specific.

Stranger

I said that we can stop believing by our own DOING.

It hasn't happened to me so I can't speak from experience.
However, I've known people who were pretty devout - but suffered a tragedy and stopped believing in God. I personally knew one woman who was dying and cursing and blaming God for her suffering. I knew her when she was devout.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Save your greek gymnastics for another. I'm used to them already. They were false teachers, denying the Lord, they forsook the right way. They were false from the beginning.

Stranger

No "Greek gymnastics" here - just linguistic facts.
You're just embarrassed because the Greek proves you wrong and you have no where to go from here.

 

[Stranger]

Absolutely.
Spiritual death is separation from God.

We finally agree . . .

Good we agree that the story of the prodigal son is one of salvation. Not a loss of salvation. We are making progress.

Stranger