Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[BreadOfLife]

Twisting words again arn't you? In your post #359 you claim I lied. You quote part of a sentence of mine from my post #356 and then say I lied because of what I said in my post #337.

But there is no lie. In #337 I said (John 10:26) proves that we are His sheep before we believe. And in #356, had you copied the whole sentence, I said that it is not I that said it, it is Jesus Christ.

Thus by your manipulation of what I said, you present what appears to be a lie. Thus you say I have lied. But, who is now the liar? You twist my words as you do everything else.

Stranger

And you're LYING again.

These are YOUR words from post #303 - not Christ's:
"They are sheep first. Because they are sheep, they believe."

This is false, unbiblical and just plain moronic.
We ONLY become His Sheep upon accepting the grace to believe and being Baptized (Mark 6:16).
Prior to our faith - we belong to the Devil (Rom. 5:12) - NOT to Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why do you assume that I'm ignorant and unlearned?

Because every one of your posts exudes ignorance . . .

 

[FHII]

Why is that so hard for you to believe?

I don't think I ever met anyone who hadn't been told about Jesus before they read about him in the Bible. By the way, do you believe what it says in Romans 10?

 

[FHII]

Why do you assume that I'm ignorant and unlearned?

Never said or implied you are. How did you come to that assumption and are you actually going to answer the question?

I am a big believer in reading the Bible. But the verse in question doesn't say faith comes by reading.

 

[Stranger]

You're not one of Christ's Sheep until you come to Him in faith and are Baptized (Mark 16:16).
To think that you can be one of His Sheep PRIOR to having faith in him is a false Calvinist belief. Are you now claiming to be a Calvinist?

NOWHERE is this bizarre belief supported by Scripture OR the 2000 year old teachings of the historic Christian faith.

That is not what (John 10:26) says. Unless you twist and reword it as you did.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

And you're LYING again.

These are YOUR words from post #303 - not Christ's:
"They are sheep first. Because they are sheep, they believe."

This is false, unbiblical and just plain moronic.
We ONLY become His Sheep upon accepting the grace to believe and being Baptized (Mark 6:16).
Prior to our faith - we belong to the Devil (Rom. 5:12) - NOT to Christ.

Nice attempt at dodging your lie that I pointed out in #414. Now you simply want to act like it was just over the disagreement of we being sheep first before we believe. You charged me with a lie by your manipulation of what I said. Now you want to act like it never happened. But it did. And I will remember it and watch as you continue to twist the Scriptures and what I say. I knew you wern't man enough to own up to it. You are a wordsmith.

(John 10:26) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you"

Stranger

 

[Job]

By the way, do you believe what it says in Romans 10?

I don't question scripture. I don't take every word literally either.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nice attempt at dodging your lie that I pointed out in #414. Now you simply want to act like it was just over the disagreement of we being sheep first before we believe. You charged me with a lie by your manipulation of what I said. Now you want to act like it never happened. But it did. And I will remember it and watch as you continue to twist the Scriptures and what I say. I knew you wern't man enough to own up to it. You are a wordsmith.

(John 10:26) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you"

Stranger

That is not what (John 10:26) says. Unless you twist and reword it as you did.

Stranger - the only one "lying" here is YOU.
I have proven it time and time again.

First, you say that we are Christ's Sheep BEFORE we come to him in faith - THEN you claim that you never said it.
You're a cliche - a guy who argues just for the sake of arguing and can't admit when he's been caught.

Another thing I have proven DOZENS of times on this thread is that salvation is a GIFT that can be LOST.
I presented the following Scriptural evidence of this fact at least 3 times already - and you failed to address it. If you want to at least appear to know Scripture - MAYBE you should give it a shot . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you,provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had to begin with?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for“knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosis). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who canfall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ –CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
Pretty self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who arealready saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is aboutCHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[Dcopymope]

I don't question scripture. I don't take every word literally either.

How does one know when and when not to take scripture literally? Personally, I arrive at a conclusion as to its literacy by logical deduction, unless someone is going to claim to have interpretation from the spirit. Induction usually doesn't work out for me when it comes to scripture, which is like adding onto what is stated and isn't something taken lightly by God anyway.

 

[Job]

I am a big believer in reading the Bible. But the verse in question doesn't say faith comes by reading.

God isn't limited in His ability to make Himself known.

 

[Job]

How does one know when and when not to take scripture literally?

Discernment.

 

[Helen]

Why is that so hard for you to believe?

It is a unique experience...we too had a friend. He know nothing about the bible. No one had preached to him.
One night we was woken up. Jesus stood at the foot of his bed. ✟
He told our friend that He was calling him to preach the good news and lead people to Himself. That was enough for him...He bought a bible...read it right through.
He did not join any "organized church"...but went off on his bike " with God.".
The Lord led him like that for many years.
Once he heard the lord say- "Buy a pint of milk..take to #10 on the next street, it has a green door..."
When he got there , there was a penniless family lived there. They had a baby who badly needed the milk.
He told them that God sent him. The man and the woman both got saved. Many things like this happened. Awesome.

But, sadly it didn't all end well. Pride took him...he thought that "he himself" had this power, he didn't stay humble. So God removed this powerful ability from him....and he became like you and I, ..sometime led clearly by God, and something missing it a bit.
He became a broken man, because he didn't want to be "Just another regular Christian." At the end, he was still a christian, but a miserable old man , just living on memories.

 

[Stranger]

How does one know when and when not to take scripture literally? Personally, I arrive at a conclusion as to its literacy by logical deduction, unless someone is going to claim to have interpretation from the spirit. Induction usually doesn't work out for me when it comes to scripture, which is like adding onto what is stated and isn't something taken lightly by God anyway.

I take Scripture literally unless it is very obvious that it is not to be taken literally. And just because something said deals with the miraculous or supernatural, is not a cause to discount it as literal. For example the book of Revelation. I take it literally. There is symbolic language used, and signs used but I take the book literally. And most times the meaning of the symbols will be found in the Bible.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Stranger - the only one "lying" here is YOU.
I have proven it time and time again.

First, you say that we are Christ's Sheep BEFORE we come to him in faith - THEN you claim that you never said it.
You're a cliche - a guy who argues just for the sake of arguing and can't admit when he's been caught.

Another thing I have proven DOZENS of times on this thread is that salvation is a GIFT that can be LOST.
I presented the following Scriptural evidence of this fact at least 3 times already - and you failed to address it. If you want to at least appear to know Scripture - MAYBE you should give it a shot . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you,provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had to begin with?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for“knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosis). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who canfall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ –CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
Pretty self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who arealready saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is aboutCHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

See post #414. Reread.

Stranger

 

[Marymog]

This is what I mean.

John 11:25-26 “Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
John 10:28-29 “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.”
Romans 8:38-39 “For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Philippians 1:6 “And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.”
John 5:11-13 “And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.”
John 6:37, 39 “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out…And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.”
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”
There are far to many Christians think the have a call to teach. There are far to many jump in feet first to warn others. What I dont understand is this. Why is there zero fear of this verse.
James 3:1 My brethren, be not many teachers, knowing that we shall receive the severer judgment.
Why do you all think you are able to teach on every thing scriptural? 40.000 church who cant agree on all points with ANYONE ELSE. So there are many many who legally are able to teach . They cant all be correct. Then in here we find people who think they are qualified to teach. and have zero fear of that verse. How manyy in here do you think are teaching truth? man we got to humble our selves and listen

Hi Sword,

To get the FULL context of John 11:25-26 we need to add verse 27, “Yes, Lord; I BELIEVE that you are the Christ, the Son of God, he who is coming into the world.” If she didn’t BELIEVE she would have LOST HER SALVATION. Salvation was not guaranteed.

To get the FULL context of John 10:28-29 we need to look at verse 25-27 which says, Jesus answered them, “I told you (I am the Christ), and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness to me; but you do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;". Since they didn’t BELIEVE they lost their salvation; however, His followers did BELIEVE him and they FOLLOWED him so they were saved.


In Romans 8:38-39 they said these certain things will not be able to separate them from the love of God. So I ask you Sword: What would happen to them if those things did separate themselves from the love of God? Would they lose their salvation?

Philippians 1:6 has absolutely NOTHING to do with gaining or loosing salvation.


If you read just a little bit further into John 5:11-13 to chapter 16 you will see that it says: If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death;

Which means…..drum roll please….YOU CAN LOOSE YOUR SALVATION THRU SIN!!!

John 6:37, CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT Sword…..Verse 35: “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. Which means if you don’t go to Him or believe in Him you loose your salvation. Stop believing in Him or going to Him and you loose eternal life.


John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” EXACTLY….WHOEVER HEARS HIS WORD AND BELIVES HAS ETERNAL LIFE. Once you STOP believing or if you don’t listen to His word you LOOSE YOUR SALVATION. Salvation is not assured.

Matthew 25:31-46 tells us who will go away to eternal punishment and who will be saved. Those that went to eternal punishment went because of what they DIDN’T do.

Who are we supposed to listen to??? Are you suggesting we HUMBLE OURSELVES and listen to you??

Curious Mary

 

[Peanut]

Discernment.

Paul's letter to the Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Job]

Paul's letter to the Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Point?

 

[bbyrd009]

Point?

"In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God," apparently

 

[Job]

"In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God," apparently

Boy that would be a burn. But there are people out there that treat the bible like it's a little god.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

In which, as the salvation issues arose out of the Sardisean church age, the Lord Jesus also comments on the issue...

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3:5

I would imagine the Lord Jesus saying, "If you overcome... Yes, the eternal security is yours!"