No you showed me your prescription of belief and it's WRONG. Peter's very first message in Acts 2, an important one at that, kind of a make it or break moment, had the people asking what should we do? (to be saved). Peter answers Repent, be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit. 3000 people in front of him, salivating to know what to do to be saved and he tells them those three things. He didn't say; "Oh, btw here's also an important list 1) Take up your cross daily and follow Him, 2) you need works of mercy, 3) Obey all the commandments, 4) Doing the will of the Father, 5) You must suffer for Christ. Somehow Peter forgot his list, as infallible as you say he was. Let's chalk it up to old age. The next time in Acts 4, 5000 believed there message. Still no list. Matter of fact if you read about every conversion in the book of Acts you will not find your list. Obedience is not included in belief, as you say. Obedience can only be the result of belief and repentance. Don't put the cart before the horse.
Then you say; it's obedience to ALL His commands. That sounds like perfection to me, and I know you and me are not perfect, our arrogance proves that.
Did you notice Acts 16:29-31, the jailer specifically asks how to be saved and Paul replies "“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household" Where's the list?
When Peter told the crown to repent and be
Baptized - this is the
FIRST act of
obedience.
Of course they
can't be expected to have
done everything. they are
brand new believers.
As for obeying
ALL His commands - this is
neither arrogance
nor perfection.
We are to
STRIVE to do His will -
ALL of it. If you're not
striving to be obedient to
ALL He commands - then you are
disobedient.
You who are not infallible decided that the example of the thief on the cross was an exception. And I'm suppose to believe you blindly. Maybe I proved my point and you just can't admit it. I didn't realize you were clairvoyant in knowing that the thief WOULD have been an obedient servant. But what if he wasn't obedient, would that be an exception. I don't know, I don't have a crystal ball. Oh, you said that the thief on the cross was an exception not that obedience was an exception. Don't confuse the issue.
No - simply
logic and
faith in God shows us that the
thief on the cross was an
exception.
Jesus said that we
must be baptized with
Water (John 3:5) - but the thief on the cross
didn't have the chance to be baptized. He is the
classic example of an exception.
Yes you're right. We wouldn't want to take the exception of the thief and say that he would have followed the list had he been freed and therefore spin the theology that the list is an integral part of believing.
???
Where does the bible state that he did? Especially when the C church didn't even exist at that time. All we know is he got saved which entails being baptized into the Body of Christ by the Spirit and becoming a member of the Body. Then he was baptized in water by Philip.
No - he was baptized by
Philip before he was baptized by the
Spirit.
YOUR initial claim that the Eunuch went off on his
own and
never joined a Church community is completely
unfounded.
Anyway, we
know from the writings of
Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch that the Catholic Church existed in the
FIRST century.
That is simply an
historical fact. Read his
Letter to the Smyrnaeans . . .
The Body of Christ is ONE, although each member is different. The eye cannot say to the ear "I do not need you". Do you know what that means? It means that I cannot say I do not need you. Because if your goal is to lead people to Christ, then I shouldn't stop you because that's equally my ultimate goal.
But I could be wrong. Maybe your goal is to lead people to the C church. In that case you're working in a different field. But I don't know I'm not clairvoyant.
Christ's Church is
ONE Body - not
tens of thousands of splintering
"bodies".
HIS Body doesn't teach tens of thousands of
different and
competing doctrines.
HIS Body is
united in belief
and doctrine. It is
ONE, as He and the Father are
ONE (John 17:20-23).
When you have
tens of thousands of splintered sects teaching
different doctrines with
different interpretations of Scripture - it is not
ONE Body. The
7th Day Adventist CAN say to the
Calvinist, "I have no need of you" because they're
NOT from the
same Body. Same goes for the
Lutheran and the
Presbyterian or the
Methodist or the Quaker or the
Baptist, etc.
This should read ALL Christians, remember the thief wasn't baptized, are MEMBERS of the BODY of CHRIST and will remain in the Body as they walk in righteousness.
As I've already illustrated quite
clearly - the Thief was an
exception to the norm.
Aborted babies are probably
ALSO exceptions to the norm as are
unbaptized babies.
Actually, the C church also has a different belief on salvation, some think that there is a whole list of things that one needs to be doing in order to be saved.
No, the Catholic Church holds to the
Biblical prescription for salvation:
Enduring faith TO THE END.
You know Billy Graham got saved somewhere in the world and was called by God to be an evangelist to the world preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom. And like Peter and Paul he had more than 3000 or 5000 get saved under his ministry. Yet you would believe that because they are not Catholic they are not saved. Do you thing Billy preached about becoming baptist? No, he knew the Gospel was about Christ and Christ alone. Your gospel is about the C church alone. Such a shame.
No - I
never said that Billy Graham or the thousands of people he helped
weren't saved.
I said that
NOBODY's salvation is up for me or
YOU to decide. That is up to
GOD alone.
I sincerely
HOPE that Billy Graham makes it to Heaven. However, I
won't know until I get there
myself.
It's pretty
arrogant of you to think it is up to
YOU to decide who is
saved and who
isn't . . .[/QUOTE]