Catholics

[BreadOfLife]

So, if a member of your church disagrees with a doctrinal position such as Transubstantiation, but stays and remains a member, then is that person really a member, or just not considered *Catholic* any longer because of their disagreement?

That person would not be excommunicated, correct?

If that person formally brought their disagreements before the Church - they might be excommunicated .
However, if they chose to stay in the pews and hold to these views - then they would be hypocrites.

Why anybody would stay in a church that they disagree with is an exercise in stupidity.

 

[BreadOfLife]

according to whom?

According to simply logic.
Why would you stay in a church if you disagreed with its teachings??

 

[aspen]

The term anti-Catholic is Ad Hominem. I've gone back to the beginning of your posts on this thread and it is difficult to find anything, which does not contain ad hominien or baiting comments. You appear to accuse people of lying with the same vigor and inaccuracy (misspelled as lieing - I wouldn't want to be inaccurate and be called a liar) as a Puritan looking for witches. The language you use clearly communicates contempt with everyone who disagrees with you and you show it with your consistent drumbeat of accusations and wild assumptions. A few Catholics who have posted here, seem to be the only people who get away with not being noticed by you; i think that is probably the best response a person can hope for from you - like most people with narcissistic tendencies, you appear to 'level' friend and foe. It is hard to imagine anyone appreciating your negative comments, let alone, learning anything from you besides perhaps, Catholic contempt/condescension (here is a hint: Protestants can smell contempt from Catholics a mile away - if there is anything a Catholic can do to promote the truth of the Church, it is to drop any whiff of contempt or condescension). Yet, this appears to be your witness - you could learn from the article from the Pope, which I posted. It is up to you if you want to view it as an attack or a blessing

 

[BreadOfLife]

Like?

Give me time. I'd have to go back and glean all of your anti-Catholic remarks from other threads.
I could chalk up many f them to sheer ignorance because it's obvious to anybody with a rudimentary understanding of the Catholic Church that you don't know much about it.

 

[Stranger]

Well - I had hoped that the explanation would have helped you to understand - but I wasn't holding my breath.
It's almost like talking to a wall - without the sincerity, that is . . .

Your explanation was empty. You whinned and wined about not knowing nothing of a 'Roman' church. And you didn't call yourself 'Roman Catholic'. You only called the Church Catholic and yourself a Catholic.

But, I educated you on what your Church really is so now you feel like you need to explain why you never used these terms before. As I said, you can thank me later.

But, in reality, there is no Roman Catholic Church. Only the Roman Church. The Catholic Church comprises all believers no matter what denomination they are in.

Stranger

 

[aspen]

According to simply logic.
Why would you stay in a church if you disagreed with its teachings??

According to simply logic.
Why would you stay in a church if you disagreed with its teachings??

Now, this is better. Almost civil, in fact. Personally, I would remain Catholic for all the teachings I agree with and pray for God to work on my unbelief. I am not worried why many other people remain Catholic without believing core doctrines

 

[ScottA]

Can you show them in context?
For example - I never called anybody on this forum a "conspiracy loon".

CONTEXT . . .

Right...!

No, you already showed them (yourself) in context.

Sorry, no do-overs.

 

[aspen]

Give me time. I'd have to go back and glean all of your anti-Catholic remarks from other threads.
I could chalk up many f them to sheer ignorance because it's obvious to anybody with a rudimentary understanding of the Catholic Church that you don't know much about it.

Sorry everyone, Bread of Life is on a mission to expose me and needs to review around 9,000 posts of mine. I am sure he will return to insult you as soon as he finishes his fathers work

Happy reading, BoL

 

[aspen]

Tabletalk - The Real Presence is truly a core teaching of the Catholic Church and participation in the Eucharist does require belief because it is an act of worship. Doubts are difference than disagreement. If a person has doubts about the Real Presence and prays for belief, baptized, and are free from mortal sin, they are welcome to partake of the Eucharist. If another person privately disagrees with the teaching and sees it as symbolic, they may be involved in idolatry if the choose to participate. If a person disagrees and teaches their alternate belief, they face excommunication.

 

[pia]

Yes - and I was responding to Aspen's post #1542 . . .

Yes but you were including me as a 3rd person ( so to speak ) when it was clearly me who sent it to you. I do sincerely apologize if I am doing it wrong when responding, I just can't seem to find and unanswered post of yours or indeed other peoples, which hasn't already been replied to.
I can see from your post that you say you have been doing this for 13 years, so you are most certainly committed to your beliefs, and I surely cannot fault you on your commitment, nor would I want to, but PLEASE try to understand, I am not trying to be at odds with people who call themselves Catholics, and just like you, who is fully committed to your studies and what your church has taught you, I can only be committed to the One who taught me that God AND Jesus are actually really real, which I had absolutely no clue about, at that time. So please don't try to get me to resist or worse reject HIM, what He has taught me or shown me....I am not questioning your faith in The Lord, but I cannot fathom why you don't believe all the various historical evidence against the establishment of the Catholic church, since you don't have any problems accepting words that were written down by, God only knows who, and be willing to 'fight to the death' so to speak to defend their position.
Please believe me when I tell you that if Jesus had instructed me to go to a Catholic Church ( when I inquired about going to church for Him ), I would have IMMEDIATELY gone and found one, and I would have stayed put there, come hell or high water. But alas, He did not and because of how He described His church, I did not immediately go and try to find one, I took 6 1/2 years before doing that, and it almost destroyed me, filling my head with doubts and fears and untold amounts of lies, which have all been proven to me at one stage or another by HIM....Mind you, He has no problem with the people, but as He emphatically said to me once :" I am NOT a religion but REALITY ! ", not A reality, not THE reality, just reality..........
It is my sincerest hope that somehow the Lord can bring someone like you and I into SOME agreement...Now that would be a testament to others, of the great and awesome power of our Lord.............What do you say 'Bread of Life' ? Can you and I show some maturity in Christ and at least find ONE thing where we can share common ground? Nothing would please me more, and somehow I think it would please the Master also..........What do you think ?
sincerely Pia

 

[pia]

Infallibility isn't a trait of ANY human being - but a charism of the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15).
The Pope by himself is not infallible. But through the Holy Spirit, he is unable to teach error in matters of faith and morals.

Infallibility doesn't mean that he is right about everything.
Jesus's promise that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL truth doesn't include the Pope's Superbowl picks . . .

But surely dear Sir, with all your learnedness you must be aware that The Holy Spirit was given to all mankind ( even if all won't accept this precious gift ), and it was in THIS way, that all believers were to come into the ONE truth, and that truth lies predominately in understanding that God is Love ( not love as we know it, it's much much purer ), as well as WHY Jesus had to go through what He had to endure ? IF Christians could display this Love for one another , Jesus said that it was going to be the one thing to convince others that He exists . To my recollection Jesus never said to His disciples to go into the various places where someone else had already been and build onto THEIR foundation. I am certain Jesus showed them that it was on the foundation which Peter received from above , when he could unequivocally say :" You are the Christ, The Son of the living God.", that revelation is probably the most important one, because who would listen to Him, if He were NOT the Savior , and as well, believing is one thing, KNOWING is quite another, as Paul states, that he counted ALL that he ever knew as dung, compared to the KNOWING of Jesus in the power of His resurrection. So to those who are content to just study the writings of others, it's all good because :" Blessed are they who have believed and not yet seen."
But those who want to taste the victory and live a life consecrated to Him should go on to KNOWING and not just believing, He is the one who wants us to know Him as we are known by Him...........I pray the Lord, that He will find at least one thing upon which we can both stand.................Pia

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your explanation was empty. You whinned and wined about not knowing nothing of a 'Roman' church. And you didn't call yourself 'Roman Catholic'. You only called the Church Catholic and yourself a Catholic.

But, I educated you on what your Church really is so now you feel like you need to explain why you never used these terms before. As I said, you can thank me later.

But, in reality, there is no Roman Catholic Church. Only the Roman Church. The Catholic Church comprises all believers no matter what denomination they are in.

Stranger

No - there is no "Roman" Church.
There IS the Catholic Church - and there is the Latin or "Roman" RITE.

You're a Protestant, ergo, you are not part of the Catholic Church. You're part of one of the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines - yet ALL claim to have the "truth".

I taught a 3rd grade catechism class - and they were able to grasp what YOU have failed to . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Now, this is better. Almost civil, in fact. Personally, I would remain Catholic for all the teachings I agree with and pray for God to work on my unbelief. I am not worried why many other people remain Catholic without believing core doctrines

I'm not "worried" about why anybody has a lack of faith - except for my family.
My question to YOU was asked out of simple curiosity - and which you have yet to answer:
Why would you stay in a church if you disagreed with its teachings??

I'll simplify the question:
Do you believe that Christ would allow His Church to teach incorrect and dangerous doctrines?
If not - why wouldn't you try to find the Church that you believe to he His??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Right...!
No, you already showed them (yourself) in context.

Sorry, no do-overs.

Translation:
"I cherry-picked your quotes, so please don't ask me to expose my deceit!"

 

[bbyrd009]

You're part of one of the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines - yet ALL claim to have the "truth".

you need to find some new tropes, BoD

 

[bbyrd009]

Translation:
"I cherry-picked your quotes, so please don't ask me to expose my deceit!"

i must witness for him, as many others have done at this point

 

[BreadOfLife]

you need to find some new tropes, BoD

Hey - I stick with truth . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

i must witness for him, as many others have done at this point

Let me see . . . a person who has been caught in endless lies is vouching for another person who lies.
That makes sense . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

 

[ScottA]

Translation:
"I cherry-picked your quotes, so please don't ask me to expose my deceit!"

Translation: "Oh no, he quoted just a fraction of my many trash-mouth remarks - which is all I have...so here is some more."

Which I will say just this one time to show you how childish you have been all this time. Take it as a warning, or take it up with God.