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aspen

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Repost:

After spending years debating James White, I have noticed common tactics employed by people who want to win at any cost (dualistic mindset) rather than seek a mutual understanding of the facts or even work toward a mutual disagreement. Ann Coulter is a good example of a political satirist who engages in this sort of rhetoric. Let's take a closer look, shall we?

1. Make an outrageous claim. It doesn't matter if the Pope is or is not speaking infallibly, or if you take a comment out of context, or if the group you belong to is just as guilty as the group you are making accusations against, because the goal is not to be fair minded or even handed or even accurate; all you need to be concerned with is igniting an emotional response from your opponent rather than a logical one. Remember, you are always right and your opponent is always wrong; your job is to simply supply enough emotional rope for your opponent to hang himself.

2. Rely on Mocking or Sarcasm to ignite passion: If you are of a conservative ilk, rely on a mocking, morally superior tone to deliver your message (James White, Ann Coulter, etc); if you happen to be liberal use a lot of sarcastic humor to exalt yourself above your opponent's attempts at presenting himself/herself as morally superior (John Stewart, Steven Colbert, Al Franken). BTW, liberals get the most points when they present themselves so convincingly that even conservatives mistake them for a conservative! (Archie Bunker)

3. Do not give an inch: If your opponent happens to stumble upon a true statement, ignore, deny or re-frame the conversation! In all cases, never concede even a minor point to your opponent.

4. Make your opponent work harder: Always remember that you are right, regardless of the facts presented, and you will eventually prove it by weathering any storm that may be created due to the information your opponent happens to give you. Most importantly, make sure he spends most of his time researching the topic; you must put him in a place where he feels like he has to prove you wrong. If he presents troubling information to you about your own position simply refuse to acknowledge it. The fact is you set the pace and the agenda of the debate; your opponent is either a brainwashed innocent or at worst, a conniving, interloper who has no right to challenge your superior position, and only appears to have the nerve to do so without merit. Most importantly, he is challenging you intentionally; therefore it is the "Christian" thing to do to put him back in his place.

5. Do not bother reading posts or listening to responses from your opponent: After all, reading your posts may ignite emotions within yourself, or take your mind off your primary goal, winning. Instead of reading, skim your opponent's post for statements that can be molded to aid you in your ultimate goal. The best statements are usually the most irrelevant to your opponent's point - why re-post something meaningful or relevant? Oh, and make sure you continue to apply the steady drumbeat of either mocking / moral superiority, or sarcastic humor.

6. Stay the Course!: Eventually your opponent with either hang himself or simply tire of the interaction; in both cases, you must declare victory immediately. Like any good staring contest or series of tic-tac-toe draws, it is not the person that presents the best case who wins, but the person who is left standing.
 
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pia

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I am sharing my opinion on an opinion board. Everyone who posts here is sharing their opinion
Hi 'aspen'......That is not entirely correct. Some things can be opinions from studies, but others, and I am positive I am not the only one, I know I am not, do actually receive revelation, in whatever form it comes. When we can receive truth independently of one another, it can and should give us the confirmation we need, particularly if received through The Holy Spirit, which some can recognize immediately as from above. Other times, if it is the Lord Himself speaking, there can be no room for doubt. If I thought that everyone here were only basing all they say on their own opinions and interpretations of the Bible, I would leave in a heartbeat, but I have already found a few people on this forum, who without a doubt, do get revelation and that is what it is going to take, if we as Christians are to have any chance in reaching the lost. With revelation comes better understanding of Gods kind of love, which is most definitely NOT the same as what we call love. I guess the closest we humans can get to it, is in the way we feel and what we do with/to our own children, and even then, we have to understand that God is not just a slightly better human being than the rest of us. He is and has a much higher, purer and consistent Love for us, than we can even imagine. I am personally very excited to be here at this moment in time, because the last time I joined a forum, there were all of two people, who were not just basing everything they said or thought on some religious doctrine or other.....
Hope you will join in with us ? Have blessed day Pia :)
 

pia

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Then that simply means that there were a thousand lies that needed to be rebuked . . .
If you guys would just stop lying - you wouldn't hear fro me anymore
Apologies Job for cutting in here, I just wanted to get one thing straight ( if it's at all possible ) from BOL....So BOL, you are saying that if I and the others were to turn around and lie about what Jesus has told us or shown us, then you would be a happy camper and we would no longer hear from you, is that what you meant to say, or did say?
If it had been you who had had a visit from the Lord Jesus and He had told and shown you many things, would you be willing to pretend that you were lying just to get some person off your back, who had NOT encountered the Lord?
If we were to do as you ask, don't you understand that we would then be lying about the Lord, or worse still, be calling Him a liar, and surely even you can understand that that is just not going to happen, we have to face Him again you know, as will you. I wonder what you will answer Him, when the time comes? Please just this once, could you please just answer the questions put to you without adding all the other things. They are two very straight forward questions, one hypothetical, one in relation to what you wrote, so it doesn't need anything else added, just your answers please.
Please show me that you have some of the Love of the Lord in you, and do this one thing without malice.
Thank you in advance Pia
 

aspen

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Hi 'aspen'......That is not entirely correct. Some things can be opinions from studies, but others, and I am positive I am not the only one, I know I am not, do actually receive revelation, in whatever form it comes. When we can receive truth independently of one another, it can and should give us the confirmation we need, particularly if received through The Holy Spirit, which some can recognize immediately as from above. Other times, if it is the Lord Himself speaking, there can be no room for doubt. If I thought that everyone here were only basing all they say on their own opinions and interpretations of the Bible, I would leave in a heartbeat, but I have already found a few people on this forum, who without a doubt, do get revelation and that is what it is going to take, if we as Christians are to have any chance in reaching the lost. With revelation comes better understanding of Gods kind of love, which is most definitely NOT the same as what we call love. I guess the closest we humans can get to it, is in the way we feel and what we do with/to our own children, and even then, we have to understand that God is not just a slightly better human being than the rest of us. He is and has a much higher, purer and consistent Love for us, than we can even imagine. I am personally very excited to be here at this moment in time, because the last time I joined a forum, there were all of two people, who were not just basing everything they said or thought on some religious doctrine or other.....
Hope you will join in with us ? Have blessed day Pia :)

Hi pia,

I recognize revelation from God and I understand how private revelation can speak truth to individuals it is reveal to, however.....

When revelation is shared with others I have a hard time seeing the message free from commentary. Nothing wrong with it, but it is no longer pure revelation. I am pretty sure that only God can produce truth - humans can comment on truth.
 
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pia

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Hi pia,

I recognize revelation from God and I understand how private revelation can speak truth to individuals it is reveal to, however.....

When revelation is shared with others I have a hard time seeing the message free from commentary. Nothing wrong with it, but it is no longer pure revelation. I am pretty sure that only God can produce truth - humans can comment on truth.
That's what I have been saying all along, but once we DO get the truth from Him, which a lot more people do than we may think, it is merely about sharing EXACTLY as the Lord says it or shows it. others should get confirmation from the Lord, so there's is no confusion in it. I have seen it work with a small fellowship ( it can be easier to be of one mind, when we are not too many people) and it is a truly wonderful thing... There would be others on this forum, who would know what I mean.
Anyone who would add anything to what the Lord reveals, free from commentary as you put it , should not be part of those who are 'dead' serious about the Lord. I for one wouldn't dare.
You say we as humans can only comment on the truth, again, if it is from the Lord it WILL be Truth, and therefore should be shared with other believers, for them to take it to the Lord for confirmation, unless they get that instant response from within
from The Holy Spirit, some people are amazing at knowing when it is The Spirit of Truth ( I am one who is perhaps a little too careful in that regard, probably because I got spoiled by the Lord.
Private revelation should be something just for that person and there is no need to share those.
I hope you will find people in your own life, you cn have that sort of fellowship with............Blessings in Him Pia
 

Marymog

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We live approx 4000 km apart, so wrong again! Why are you still writing to me ? I reply to whatever posts get listed for me on the forum under my name
Not sure how I can be "wrong again". I asked you a question, I didn't make a statement.

I am still writing you because you keep responding.

Mary
 

epostle1

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Apologies Job for cutting in here, I just wanted to get one thing straight ( if it's at all possible ) from BOL....So BOL, you are saying that if I and the others were to turn around and lie about what Jesus has told us or shown us, then you would be a happy camper and we would no longer hear from you, is that what you meant to say, or did say?
Not from what I can see. He is not saying what you have been told or shown are lies, he is saying that anti-Catholics constantly lie, and are too proud to be corrected. Lying and pride are sins, and this forum is full of proud liars, The Christian Taliban.
If it had been you who had had a visit from the Lord Jesus and He had told and shown you many things, would you be willing to pretend that you were lying just to get some person off your back, who had NOT encountered the Lord?
It's called PRIVATE revelation for a reason.
If we were to do as you ask, don't you understand that we would then be lying about the Lord, or worse still, be calling Him a liar, and surely even you can understand that that is just not going to happen, we have to face Him again you know, as will you. I wonder what you will answer Him, when the time comes? Please just this once, could you please just answer the questions put to you without adding all the other things. They are two very straight forward questions, one hypothetical, one in relation to what you wrote, so it doesn't need anything else added, just your answers please.
OK.
Please show me that you have some of the Love of the Lord in you, and do this one thing without malice.
Thank you in advance Pia
And you have no malice towards our Marian devotions that you mock and refuse to understand? When we give anti-Catholics a tiny taste of their own medicine, they whine and cry and say how mean we are. We face loads of hate, lies, bigotry, and misrepresentations daily, because the Christian Taliban all think they are experts. They don't ask, they just accuse, accuse, accuse. Like your pathetic post on St. Alphonsus Liguori. So when I see no more ignorant, sinful Catholic bashing from you, I will take your visitations seriously.

Ask the Lord if He loves His mother, I'm still waiting on that one.
 

Marymog

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I'm done Mary. You have tried this trick with me before,or have you forgotten so soon.
Dear Pia,

See what I mean. Another question by me. NO answer by you. And you claim to have answered all my questsions. Simply not true.

I truly, truly and HONESTLY do not have a grasp on what you believe except; believe in Him, Trust Him, don't judge anyone because He will judge them, you don't need a book (bible) you only need Him.

Without that book, we wouldn't know about Him :)

That book says ALOT more about believeing and Him than what you have said.

Love Mary
 

Marymog

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I'm done Mary. You have tried this trick with me before,or have you forgotten so soon.
Hi Pia,

Since we are WAY off the topic of this thread I agree with you.....we are done. Not because I haven't enjoyed my debate with you but because we have gone way off topic. I would LOVE to continue with you but your non-sencical answers OR not answering my questions at all are getting us no where.

I wish you luck in your search for Him.

Love Mary
 

bbyrd009

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That's what I have been saying all along, but once we DO get the truth from Him, which a lot more people do than we may think, it is merely about sharing EXACTLY as the Lord says it or shows it. others should get confirmation from the Lord, so there's is no confusion in it. I have seen it work with a small fellowship ( it can be easier to be of one mind, when we are not too many people) and it is a truly wonderful thing... There would be others on this forum, who would know what I mean.
Anyone who would add anything to what the Lord reveals, free from commentary as you put it , should not be part of those who are 'dead' serious about the Lord. I for one wouldn't dare.
i don't want to diminish this, but Nazi Germany operated under the same principle, believe it or don't. Iow people are manipulable, and tend to block themselves off from sources of dissension or cognitive dissonance, as might be witnessed by some of the more ardent Catholics here (no offense).

Not sure why this is coming to mind, but back in the old days of America, the President often chose his opponent in the election as VP. Good to keep dissenters around iow, even if they are a pain. We tend to clan up with the like-minded, and develop judgements for any outside our group, not that i would suspect you of that or anything, but these things have a way of getting co-opted.
 

bbyrd009

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I hope you will find people in your own life, you cn have that sort of fellowship with
32But the time is coming--indeed it's here now--when you will be scattered, each one going his own way, leaving me alone. Yet I am not alone because the Father...

not disagreeing with you though, but this does illustrate the nature of our human relationships
 
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BreadOfLife

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Apologies Job for cutting in here, I just wanted to get one thing straight ( if it's at all possible ) from BOL....So BOL, you are saying that if I and the others were to turn around and lie about what Jesus has told us or shown us, then you would be a happy camper and we would no longer hear from you, is that what you meant to say, or did say?
If it had been you who had had a visit from the Lord Jesus and He had told and shown you many things, would you be willing to pretend that you were lying just to get some person off your back, who had NOT encountered the Lord?
If we were to do as you ask, don't you understand that we would then be lying about the Lord, or worse still, be calling Him a liar, and surely even you can understand that that is just not going to happen, we have to face Him again you know, as will you. I wonder what you will answer Him, when the time comes? Please just this once, could you please just answer the questions put to you without adding all the other things. They are two very straight forward questions, one hypothetical, one in relation to what you wrote, so it doesn't need anything else added, just your answers please.
Please show me that you have some of the Love of the Lord in you, and do this one thing without malice.
Thank you in advance Pia
Nope - that's not what I'm saying at all.
I said that if you and the other anti-Catholics here would just stop lying about the Catholic Church - then I would leave you alone. You wouldn't hear from me agan.

However - as long as you continue to lie about what Catholics believe and teach - I will be there to expose you.
 

BreadOfLife

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Repeating that mantra doesn't make it so.

Stranger
Actually, it does because Jesus only built ONE Church (Matt. 16:18-19, John 17:20-23).
He didn't build tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering "churches" who ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have the "truth".

There is only ONE truth (John 14:6) and ONE Church that is the pillar and foundation of that truth (1 Tim. 3:15): Christ's Catholic Church.
 

BreadOfLife

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Actually, I am still waiting for you to fulfill your word: Review posts 1644-1648

Every post you write exposes your dualism.
In other words you don't know what "Dualism" even is - and now that I've exposed you - you don't want to explain yourself.

That's what I thought . . .:rolleyes:
 

BreadOfLife

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Repost:

After spending years debating James White, I have noticed common tactics employed by people who want to win at any cost (dualistic mindset) rather than seek a mutual understanding of the facts or even work toward a mutual disagreement. Ann Coulter is a good example of a political satirist who engages in this sort of rhetoric. Let's take a closer look, shall we?

1. Make an outrageous claim. It doesn't matter if the Pope is or is not speaking infallibly, or if you take a comment out of context, or if the group you belong to is just as guilty as the group you are making accusations against, because the goal is not to be fair minded or even handed or even accurate; all you need to be concerned with is igniting an emotional response from your opponent rather than a logical one. Remember, you are always right and your opponent is always wrong; your job is to simply supply enough emotional rope for your opponent to hang himself.

2. Rely on Mocking or Sarcasm to ignite passion: If you are of a conservative ilk, rely on a mocking, morally superior tone to deliver your message (James White, Ann Coulter, etc); if you happen to be liberal use a lot of sarcastic humor to exalt yourself above your opponent's attempts at presenting himself/herself as morally superior (John Stewart, Steven Colbert, Al Franken). BTW, liberals get the most points when they present themselves so convincingly that even conservatives mistake them for a conservative! (Archie Bunker)

3. Do not give an inch: If your opponent happens to stumble upon a true statement, ignore, deny or re-frame the conversation! In all cases, never concede even a minor point to your opponent.

4. Make your opponent work harder: Always remember that you are right, regardless of the facts presented, and you will eventually prove it by weathering any storm that may be created due to the information your opponent happens to give you. Most importantly, make sure he spends most of his time researching the topic; you must put him in a place where he feels like he has to prove you wrong. If he presents troubling information to you about your own position simply refuse to acknowledge it. The fact is you set the pace and the agenda of the debate; your opponent is either a brainwashed innocent or at worst, a conniving, interloper who has no right to challenge your superior position, and only appears to have the nerve to do so without merit. Most importantly, he is challenging you intentionally; therefore it is the "Christian" thing to do to put him back in his place.

5. Do not bother reading posts or listening to responses from your opponent: After all, reading your posts may ignite emotions within yourself, or take your mind off your primary goal, winning. Instead of reading, skim your opponent's post for statements that can be molded to aid you in your ultimate goal. The best statements are usually the most irrelevant to your opponent's point - why re-post something meaningful or relevant? Oh, and make sure you continue to apply the steady drumbeat of either mocking / moral superiority, or sarcastic humor.

6. Stay the Course!: Eventually your opponent with either hang himself or simply tire of the interaction; in both cases, you must declare victory immediately. Like any good staring contest or series of tic-tac-toe draws, it is not the person that presents the best case who wins, but the person who is left standing.
Ummmm, you forgot one: Just stop lying and I'll leave you alone.

Disagree
with the Catholic Church all you want.
Reject the Teachings of the Church all you want.
Just stop lying about what the Church teaches and you won't have to put up with me anymore . . .
 

Stranger

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Actually, it does because Jesus only built ONE Church (Matt. 16:18-19, John 17:20-23).
He didn't build tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering "churches" who ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have the "truth".

There is only ONE truth (John 14:6) and ONE Church that is the pillar and foundation of that truth (1 Tim. 3:15): Christ's Catholic Church.

I have no problem with the One Church. I have no problem with the Catholic Church. The problem is that the one Church the Catholic Church is not the Roman Church. It is not the Roman Catholic Church.

Stranger
 
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BreadOfLife

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I have no problem with the One Church. I have no problem with the Catholic Church. The problem is that the one Church the Catholic Church is not the Roman Church. It is not the Roman Catholic Church.

Stranger
And nobody said it was.
It's "The Catholic Church" that is headquartered in the Vatican.

YOU keep using the erroneous terms, "Roman Church" or "Roman Catholic Church" - as if it were an entity.
It ain't . . .