Why water into wine?

[pia]

Aspen.........'do not believe celibacy is the cause of sex abuse among priests, but I would like to see diocesan priests have the option of marrying. Required celibacy is an outdated tradition and it's only current purpose appears to be as a dodge for refusing to address homosexuality within the priesthood'
.
This is what I found in the Bible in this regard...
1Tim 4:1-3.......1) Now the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons........2) speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,...........3) FORBIDDING TO MARRY, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving, by those who BELIEVE and KNOW the Truth."
So verse one clearly talks of 'later on', I would call a few hundred years 'later on'.
Verse 2..........Having damaged consciences is what we clearly see when men of ANY clergy, from any denomination, are discovered as having molested boys, girls and women, and having homosexual affiliations within their 'church'...Some have been ( very recently ) 'busted' by police in a hotel room, with young naked boys and quite a lot of illegal drugs, oh yeah, these men were Cardinals, 2nd. 'down' from the pope...All over the news. Not a good 'advertisement' for the Lord our god.
Verse 3..........Well, it's there in black and white, so it's not so much an outdated tradition....It should have never been so...Elsewhere the Bible states that a man can only be abstinent in that way, if God makes him so, and yet, all these men, who join themselves to various religions, try to force themselves and others to do, what it says only God is capable of, (as indeed they do with lots of other things), gives the devil a foothold right away, as he will see to it that many will succumb to the ever burning lust in their flesh.
This verse also makes it clear, that not only should we be believers, we are to go on to KNOW, which is totally different than knowing something ABOUT.
The entire chapter 3 in 1 Tim is actually a fairly good illustration, as to the real state of religions, compared to what he writes here, that they OUGHT to be.
It is hard to read all the posts defending those institutions..... There is clearly darkness in them, and the Light of God, cannot mix with the darkness......He separated them from the beginning .
If ALL the ones ruling over it would repent, ask for the Light of God to come in and clear away the darkness......That I think may be possible, but they would all have to be in 100% agreement.....So we shall see if that ever happens in any of the religions....With some it's sexual immorality, in some it's the love of money.........It needs to change so the poor people who have gotten caught up in this, can be set free from the institutions they have allowed themselves to get attached to, when we should, as believers be attached to only ONE, our Lord Jesus.....He is our Bridegroom, not the other pretenders, who pretend to be both Groom and Bride at various times. There is also only one Bride, made up of the ones who belong to Jesus, the ones who believe in Him....His church, the one He is building, the one NOT built by human hands, as the Bible also states somewhere.
So nor more lies that I hate Catholics or any other believing people.......I DO NOT !!!!!!!

 

[pia]

Wow.....this looks like a case of BoL spirit, just with distorted doctrine.....

Hi Aspen......I just wrote a post to you, without being able to use the reply button, so I just wrote a post down the bottom of the page, and started it with your 'call name'.. Hope you find it... very interested in what you think....

 

[amadeus]

As I've said in the past, and I repeat again, you do make a good politician. You aim to please everyone!

Jesus also worked to please everyone, but he was unsuccessful because it was unwilling to compromise. I hope in that respect I am like Him.

But what will you do with Scriptures like:

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

For myself, I do try the spirits versus the Spirit, but is it always my job to try them for everyone else?

"For the body is not one member, but many." I Cor 12:14

Do you know then what part of the body of Christ I am and what my function according to God is?

OR

"Not everyone that sayeth unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

The Catholic Church performs exorcism, don't they? They believe in miracles, don't they? They prophesy their false gospel to the world, don't they?

If you want to stay neutral, so be it. Just one caution, read Matthew 13:12.

To God Be The Glory

So is it that you don't believe that God works in me because I don't fit what you see as His pattern? Is that the trouble?
I am hardly neutral, but neither do I know all things. I do believe what God has led me to believe some things and I believe that there are things in me that He is still working to correct. I want to do the work that He wants me to do. What else should anyone until they are closer to being like He is?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

Do suppose the best thing a person could do to remain neutral and as you say be, "a good politician" would be to tell people that I cannot embrace the Trinity and that I do not believe in eternal torment and that I have some other rather controversial ideas that are part of my present beliefs?

 

[perrero]

I have answered EVERY question thrown at me by every one of you anti-Catholics.

No you have not.
I asked you, why does the C church remove the 2nd commandment given to Moses and therefore, in order to keep the same count of 10 commandments, it splits what is known as the 10th commandment into 2, to make 9 and 10.
It is done in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. In Exodus 20 verses 4, 5 and 6 have been remove and in Deu. 5 the verses 8, 9, 10 are removed.

 

[perrero]

Do suppose the best thing a person could do to remain neutral and as you say be, "a good politician" would be to tell people that I cannot embrace the Trinity and that I do not believe in eternal torment and that I have some other rather controversial ideas that are part of my present beliefs?

Do you believe God is just?

 

[aspen]

And I have stated that I will answer anything you ask.
Your refusal to present these "previously asked" questions speaks VOLUMES about dishonesty . . .

This is called baiting

 

[mjrhealth]

Wow.....this looks like a case of BoL spirit, just with distorted doctrine.....

Seems he loves that website, always accusing me of being there.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, Jesus was completely alone, but not due to contempt for people - he loved everyone, even those who mischaracterized him.

Just imagine if Jesus spoke to people like this:



Or



Or



If lucky he would have been ignored, until he shouted down the wrong person; then he would have been killed on the spot without trial or fanfare - Roman Providences were brutal places to live

"when i defend myself, i am attacked"
from the A Course in Miracles guy, i guess? hmm, guess i'll hafta read it

 

[bbyrd009]

Don't you see? Mocking and Scoffing ARE a different gospel! Love of God and Neighbor is the True Gospel. You are mistaking Doctrine for Gospel

amen. Good News, BoL, God loves you anyway

 

[amadeus]

Do you believe God is just?

I do.
If I did not, I would certainly be in trouble, no matter how political I might be.

"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut 32:4

 

[epostle1]

What Catholic bashers don't know is that their behavior is sinful, and they need to be told.
If they are ignorant, they need to be instructed.
If they refuse to be instructed, they should be ignored.
sort of parallels Matthew 18:16-17

This applies to Protestant bashers as well, but there is not that many of them. I have the same intolerance for chronic liars who argue defending their lies as BofL. It's my fault for not putting them on ignore sooner.

 

[bbyrd009]

What Catholic bashers don't know is that their behavior is sinful, and they need to be told.
If they are ignorant, they need to be instructed.
If they refuse to be instructed, they should by ignored.

ya, and what poppy field guarders don't know is that they are humongous hypocrites, and will reap what they have sown, just like their State Religion

 

[epostle1]

I do.
If I did not, I would certainly be in trouble, no matter how political I might be.

"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut 32:4

But, after death, you have no way of reconciling His justice with His mercy, unless we arrive there perfect and holy and ready for heaven. That excludes most of us. Any kind of iniquity cannot co-exist with God. I thank God He has provided a means of final purification for the saved. The reformers didn't eliminate this final purification because they disagreed with it, it was eliminated in denying Church authority to bind and loose as a consequence of "faith alone". They the the baby out with the bath water.

 

[BreadOfLife]

1. I hate your witness. You witness arrogance and spite, not love.

2. You challenged my faithfulness to the Catholic Church and I responded; predictably, you only did so, in order to use my words against me. I am a faithful Catholic, not a better Catholic.

3. I have written close to 10,000 posts on this board, BoL - if you think it is your job to expose me, you have not bothered to read my posts and you have an even higher opinion of yourself than you have let on...

4. The way to avoid being humiliated is to not over-identitify with your opinions/false self. It has nothing to with doing homework. True Self deals in the spirit of the law, not in using externalized doctrine to pantse people with.

5. Once again, if you want to claim authority with your words, stop acting like a troll; over-identifying with your opinions; refusing to back up your words with the Catechism; and either, produce proof of ordination as a priest in the Catholic Church, or go get your diaper changed. Stop acting like you have spiritual authority over the Christians in this community.

6. I see you still have nothing besides your contempt to show that attending Protestant services is condemned according to Catholic teachings......there is definitely a disconnect with you - a hole in the bucket. Or as you would label it, a LIE!!!!!

Lol

And ALL of this boils down to the fact that you're angry because I have exposed you - just like I have all of the other anti-Catholics on this board.

As I have told ALL of you ad nauseam - if you want me to stop exposing you - then can it with the lies . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hello @BreadOfLife

It would seem that you pretty much stand alone here. That's OK because we know that especially toward the end of His earthly ministry Jesus was nearly, if not completely, alone. Thousands had heard Him gladly and had eaten of the bounty in both spiritual and natural abundance He provided, but He was the One that most everyone here knows as Jesus, the very Word of God made flesh...

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" John 6:66-67

But, while Jesus stood without compromise ready to stand alone, we see this response to His words:

"Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life." John 6:68

He did, as most on this forum would agree, have the words of eternal life. He defended no existing religious group or church or sect, but God.

Jesus had a purpose, as again most here would agree, although there likely be a bit of disagreement on exactly what that purpose was.

And you, my friend, do you have a purpose? To make clear what the Roman Catholic Church is saying, or is supposed to be saying so people know?
Is that really a good purpose for you? Would you say that God called you for that purpose? Do you believe that you accomplishing that purpose?

One thing I would suggest is that when you use Roman Catholic expressions, you explain the meaning of those expressions for non-Catholics so that you are better understood. For example I have seen you use the expression, heresy. Your usage differs from my own when I use it [which really I know is seldom] and probably is different than what is shown by scripture [although I could be wrong on this last part]. You want people to understand better. So be it, then define your terms a little better so that they can. Most of them were not born in the Catholic Church and even those who were may not have known so well some of the things that you know.

I'm not here to support you or to attack you, simply rather I guess to allow you to make yourself clear to those who have not been around very long or even are completely new to this forum.

I appreciate your honest posts - and that's why I don't respond to YOU as I do some of the others.

As I have stated repeatedly - I am only here to expose lies about the Catholic Church so that others who come here seeking the truth about what the Church teaches don't get seduced by the lies. There is so much manure being spread around here and it's really pathetic how little research is done before some of these anti-Catholics post.

I will stop posting here when I stop seeing this rubbish about what the Church teaches being spread.
This was never a thread about the Catholic Church - until the anti-Catholics came out of the woodwork . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not His word just teh bible that man has so corrupted. I do hope you have a nice day, come here to spread a bit of life in all we get from you is death.

And again - if you hold such little regard for the Bible - WHY do you constantly quote it??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, Jesus was completely alone, but not due to contempt for people - he loved everyone, even those who mischaracterized him.

Just imagine if Jesus spoke to people like this:

Or

Or

If lucky he would have been ignored, until he shouted down the wrong person; then he would have been killed on the spot without trial or fanfare - Roman Providences were brutal places to live

And what part of "Stop lying and I'll go away" do you not understand, aspen??

 

[BreadOfLife]

YOU are going to hold people accountable???????? Who on earth do you think you are Sir ??????

I am a Christian, and as one, I am called to hold my fellow Christians accountable.
Just as, if I speak something that isn't true - YOU, as a Christian should hold ME accountable.

Although - MANY of the doctrines being preached around here are hardly Christian . . .

You know, I have had enough of you twisting each and every word I have written to you and to others, where you've jumped in to spew more venom at it.
I LOVE any and every single solitary human being, who believes in Jesus and through Him, God our precious Father.....I couldn't care less what denomination they attach themselves to, Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, Jehova's Witnesses, 7th Day Adventist, I could keep going for an hour, listing more.
What I cannot abide, is what men, through the past two millennia, have done to the original commandment of Christ's, and the ruler ship they have appointed unto men, throughout various institutions, which they all call 'churches', and each and every denomination, will try to convince you, that they are the ONLY ones, who have the real truth, while all reading the ( almost identical ) Bibles, but all getting different understandings out of it, which is why it is certainly not correct to call the Bible, THE Word of God, as we know from it that 'God is NOT the author of confusion'............I personally LOVE the Bible, but I certainly need Him and The Holy Spirit to get to KNOW, what it says....The more He shows me, the more I KNOW that I don't know...He is beyond fully KNOWING, He is too much, too 'large'......Far too large to be confined to a few hundred pages in a book.......The Bible itself states that :" The Word of God is ALIVE and powerful"........A book can never be 'alive', but He can bring to 'LIFE" what the words are telling us, but as sure as He is God, He is NOT nor EVER will be restricted to, what we think or what any amount of books have to say ABOUT Him.
He is offering what He lost with Adam, actual fellowship, actual relationship.....But as He is quoted as saying:" 'Narrow is the path and few it is who find it'........The path to Him, to LIFE in Him, to relationship with Him..
The choice is entirely ours.....anyone who believes in Him and is content to know Him only through the Bible and through going to various churches, as far as I'm aware are fine....They believe in Him........But getting to KNOW Him, that is a step further, who not everyone is willing to take, nor do some even believe it possible.
As He is also quoted as saying :" You cannot serve two masters." So all I have been pointing out in all my posts, is that I prefer to follow after and cling to Him, the actual resurrected being called Jesus the Christ.... Becoming ONE with Him, and not one with any of the institutions or their self appointed leaders and rulers.
So for the last time Sir.....I am not, nor have I ever been anti the catholic people..........just anti religion of doctrines of men, whether from the catholic writings, the protestant writings, the Mormon writings and so on.........Can you comprehend what I am and have been saying to you sir?
Also, can you find a single solitary scripture to refute what I have shared, that the real Jesus taught me, long before laying eyes on a Bible?.......As I have said before, if anyone can do that ! Then I guess I will have to have a serious look at it all, but so far in the past 33 years none have been able, even the Mormons, who have come and visited with me, which gob smacks them, and by the third visit, they're not allowed to visit anymore, because they believe that only their one single man, called their Prophet, can receive revelation from above, so it confuses them, when an insignificant person like me, can also hear from above, and I'm guessing THAT is what you are having such a hard time dealing with also, you have no idea how to respond to it, so you just go on and on like a broken record, saying the same things over an over, they won't become true no matter how many times you write them.
I will get your other post out later on and try to reply to your questions, even though you really didn't answer mine, again you just spewed filth at it.... That is if you still want me to?

Actually - I agree with much of what you said about Scripture. It's NOT the entire Word of God - and that is a very Catholic teaching. The Word of God is revealed in BOTH Scripture AND Sacred Tradition. And that's about where I stop agreeing with you . . .

You speak of "churches" - and there is only ONE Church (Matt. 16:18).

You use the following verse out of context: "You cannot serve two masters."
Jesus wasn't talking about His Church - but material wealth. You an others like mjrhealth simply don't have a complete understanding as to what Christ's Church actually is - so allow me to educated you with the Biblical definition:

- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.

- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).

- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).

- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).

- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

It's not TWO masters: Christ OR the Church.
The Church IS Christ on earth.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Don't you see? Mocking and Scoffing ARE a different gospel! Love of God and Neighbor is the True Gospel. You are mistaking Doctrine for Gospel

And I'm not mocking OR scoffing.
You're got it backwards.

The person who tells lies about what another believes - HE is the mocker and the scoffer.
I simply point out and expose their falsehoods.

God has no tolerance for lies - and neither should YOU . . .

 

[aspen]

And ALL of this boils down to the fact that you're angry because I have exposed you - just like I have all of the other anti-Catholics on this board.

As I have told ALL of you ad nauseam - if you want me to stop exposing you - then can it with the lies . . .

Ah....you are one of those guys who is socially rejected and soothes yourself by thinking 'they're just jealous!'

We are not jealous, BoL.....