Why water into wine?

[GodsGrace]

If you don't mind, allow me to share with you.

The Glory of God is the Sum of all God's attributes.
View attachment 1046
Infinite is alone at the top because it affects all the other attributes. If God is good, then He is infinitely good, if He is Omniscient then He is infinitely omniscient.

All this Glory we can not see. As God said to Moses when he asked to see God's Glory. Ex. 33:18-20
But God did say that He would show Moses his back. In other words a portion of His Glory that Moses could see.
As Moses was hid in the cleft of the rock, God passed by and declared His Glory. Ex. 34:6
These were the attributes that you see on the right of the pic above. The are attributes that are communicable to us in a limited form that we can experience.
Now these glorious attributes were actually evidence in the person of Jesus. John 1:14 "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."
Heb. 1:3 :God… has in these last days spoken to us by His Son… who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person."

But watch what happens at the prayer of Jesus in the Garden.
Jesus actually exchanges that glory with us.
John 17:22 "And the glory you gave me I have given them, that they may be one as we are one,"
Col. 1:27 "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"

When we come to Christ and receive Him we also receive His Glory so that in living the Christian life the whole can see His Glory.
Numbers 14:21 "But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord. "

Blessings

This is Worth a bump.

It's not easy to explain the glory of God.
You did a good job!

Thanks.

 

[bbyrd009]

There is no metaphor for levels of faith when Jesus turned the water into wine.

you might phrase this differently, sure, but "water" is symbolic and so is "wine," and the connection to "old wine" which we think is just tastier wine, but is likely really "distilled wine," has been documented, you might just search "detergent" in connection with "wine" or whatever, maybe throw "Bible" in there, and see what you see, you'll get to granpa's stuff, or i'll go dig up a link. Fandom, maybe. i wanna say Religion 101. but it's other places too.

you might reflect on how you understand the Apostles being accused of being drunk, too.

understand these are perspectives ok, wherein you might be thought of as "fermenting."
this might describe...well, i hate to define it too much, but people who spend their spare time coming to Christian forums, and etc; seeking, asking, knocking. Fermenting is "changing," so in that vein

 

[bbyrd009]

There was a need.

you got that right, lol, but the need is spiritual, the wedding guests need it, and the story read as merely a historical account is imo missing the whole story, let's say. Now you have already mentioned one or two good ones, and you might not find the same perspectives that i have even, from it, no problem, but i didn't make this up, i just read it from others myself.

 

[Helen]

#742 Well said @bbyrd009

 

[bbyrd009]

His wine was very good.

His wine was made from water meant specifically for washing, He did not have to dump the water from the jars and put clean water in first iow, and "better taste" is just the impression that we come to, but again that is just quite possibly a symbol for "what your soul craves" possibly

 

[GodsGrace]

you might phrase this differently, sure, but "water" is symbolic and so is "wine," and the connection to "old wine" which we think is just tastier wine, but is likely really "distilled wine," has been documented, you might just search "detergent" in connection with "wine" or whatever, maybe throw "Bible" in there, and see what you see, you'll get to granpa's stuff, or i'll go dig up a link. Fandom, maybe. i wanna say Religion 101. but it's other places too.

you might reflect on how you understand the Apostles being accused of being drunk, too.

understand these are perspectives ok, wherein you might be thought of as "fermenting."
this might describe...well, i hate to define it too much, but people who spend their spare time coming to Christian forums, and etc; seeking, asking, knocking. Fermenting is "changing," so in that vein

I'm sure you know what exegesis is.
You exegete the verse without adding anything to it.
If you know anything about theology, you know that you do not add to the word of God.
You can say that TO YOU it could mean what you said, but you cannot put it forth as a fact of truth. I doubt anyone here has a PhD in theology, and neither do I, but I know this much.

As far as looking up wine, no need. My husband and I used to make wine for many years so I do know a little bit about it.

So, as you said, we're discussing SPIRITUAL matters here, NOT WNE.

It would have been nicer to talk about why the Apostles seemed drunk.
Better to be drunk with the word of God than wine.

And yes, we're all fermenting.
We're not wine yet.

 

[bbyrd009]

He respected His mother and did as she asked.

actually He kind of almost disrespected her, in a passage laden with symbolism also imo

That's it. You could add to it for your own understanding and God may show you something that is just for YOU, but you cannot claim that a parable or true story means something other than what it does.

well, that one can find water or wine--or it is also put pablum or meat--from the same Scriptures is hardly a new idea either imo. Understand though that i am not saying "this is the truth; i have some truth here, and you have to agree with it" ok

 

[bbyrd009]

You can say that TO YOU it could mean what you said, but you cannot put it forth as as truth. I doubt anyone here has a PhD in theology, and neither do I, but I know this much.

ha deja` vu. yes.

 

[GodsGrace]

you got that right, lol, but the need is spiritual, the wedding guests need it, and the story read as merely a historical account is imo missing the whole story, let's say. Now you have already mentioned one or two good ones, and you might not find the same perspectives that i have even, from it, no problem, but i didn't make this up, i just read it from others myself.

There's not much else to add to the true story.
It's history.
We make it spiritual, but only as it pertains to the true story.

 

[bbyrd009]

It would have been nicer to talk about why the Apostles seemed drunk.
Better to be drunk with the word of God than wine.

see how the two are related, and "wine" is being used as a metaphor then, because your last line here is the point imo, and actual wine is irrelevant, nobody is talking about some wine tasting better than some other wine

as to the first line, bam if you have a perspective let's hear it :)

 

[GodsGrace]

actually He kind of almost disrespected her, in a passage laden with symbolism also imo

well, that one can find water or wine--or it is also put pablum or meat--from the same Scriptures is hardly a new idea either imo. Understand though that i am not saying "this is the truth; i have some truth here, and you have to agree with it" ok

Are you telling me Jesus disrespected His mother?

Jesus, who wrote the 10 commandments, BROKE the 5th one?
He who is without sin, almost disrespected His mother??

.......

 

[bbyrd009]

There's not much else to add to the true story.
It's history.
We make it spiritual, but only as it pertains to the true story.

so you say, yes. Then that is where you are, and there is nothing wrong with being there. Wine is wine in your opinion, and Jesus just makes better tasting wine for weddings, which also have no other meaning for you right now, fine. Can't argue with that i guess

 

[GodsGrace]

so you say, yes. Then that is where you are, and there is nothing wrong with being there. Wine is wine in your opinion, and Jesus just makes better tasting wine for weddings, which also have no other meaning for you right now, fine. Can't argue with that i guess

How's this?

Tell me what John 2:6 means to you.
We could stop arguing and actually get somewhere...

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you telling me Jesus disrespected His mother?

Jesus, who wrote the 10 commandments, BROKE the 5th one?
He who is without sin, almost disrespected His mother??

.......

i would not look at it that way, looking for sin where there is none, no. But i would contemplate why Jesus said "what has that to do with me, woman?" mostly because it is an out-of-character statement, but it ties in with "My time is not yet," etc, to paint a deeper picture, lots going on here. And again, others have trod this ground before us, there is a lot of good perspective on the Wedding Miracle going around--whereas many other perspectives seem dead--imo because the Wedding thing is so laden with obvious symbolism. don't get me wrong, there's a lot of fluff out there on it too, Gill's and whatnot. straight water imo.

 

[GodsGrace]

actually He kind of almost disrespected her, in a passage laden with symbolism also imo

well, that one can find water or wine--or it is also put pablum or meat--from the same Scriptures is hardly a new idea either imo. Understand though that i am not saying "this is the truth; i have some truth here, and you have to agree with it" ok

I do wish to repeat that Jesus DID NOT disrespect His mother.
Woman - was a common reference to women back then.
Jesus respected women more than any.
He spoke to the Samaritan woman.
He hung out with Magdelene.
He ate with harlots.
etc.

I hope you realize that women were treated much worse at the time of Jesus than a the time of Moses. Jesus was very much criticized for how he treated women.
He certainly WOULD NOT mistreat His own mother.

 

[bbyrd009]

Tell me what John 2:6 means to you.
We could stop arguing and actually get somewhere...

ah, din't realize we were arguing lol. "6" "stone" "vessels," filled with "pure water" at a "wedding" being "turned into wine" lol, i could be here the rest of the day lol. but i guess this is the thread for it, so i'll get back to you today on that one

 

[bbyrd009]

He certainly WOULD NOT mistreat His own mother.

ha ya, wrong direction, not saying that at all. So then, what He did say is that much more out-of-character then, yes?

 

[GodsGrace]

i would not look at it that way, looking for sin where there is none, no. But i would contemplate why Jesus said "what has that to do with me, woman?" mostly because it is an out-of-character statement, but it ties in with "My time is not yet," etc, to paint a deeper picture, lots going on here. And again, others have trod this ground before us, there is a lot of good perspective on the Wedding Miracle going around--whereas many other perspectives seem dead--imo because the Wedding thing is so laden with obvious symbolism. don't get me wrong, there's a lot of fluff out there on it too, Gill's and whatnot. straight water imo.

Reading commentaries may not be the best thing to do.
It was not His time yet.
Which time?
The time for Him to begin His ministry
or the time for Him to die?
It's opinion. I Always thought for His Ministry.

 

[GodsGrace]

ah, din't realize we were arguing lol. "6" "stone" "vessels," filled with "pure water" at a "wedding" being "turned into wine" lol, i could be here the rest of the day lol. but i guess this is the thread for it, so i'll get back to you today on that one

I would say that the jars that held water for purification were used to make the wie.
I'd say that Jesus is the ULTIMATE PURIFICATION.
Some will say that the water refers to the Word, but I can't say that -- it seems to go Beyond what is written.

But Jesus does make THE BEST WINE available to us!
And just when we need it most!

 

[GodsGrace]

ha ya, wrong direction, not saying that at all. So then, what He did say is that much more out-of-character then, yes?

No. Not out of character.
I posted on this up above re women.