Why water into wine?

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perrero

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And this is precisely the kind of stupid, uninformed anti-Catholic remark I'm here to expose.
Time for another Bible lesson . . .

In Exodus 20, where we first see the list of Commandments, we read in verses 3 and 5 that this is not simply a commandment against the making of statues and images. It is clearly talking about not making gods out of them and not bowing to them and serving them. The Church has always condemned this practice as well.

If this were a Commandment against the creation of images and statues, then God would have violated His own law by commanding Moses just a few chapters later to create 2 golden images of Cherubim to place atop the Ark (Exod. 25:18-22).

His supposed hypocrisy would have also extended to commanding Moses later on to create a bronze serpent and place it on a pole so that those who looked upon it would be healed (Num. 21:8-9). We also read other examples of God being pleased with the creation of statues (I Kings 6:23-28, 9:3). When we read those verses in context, we see that God’s prohibition is against making idols to worship and not the creation of images. This is ALL covered in the Catholic rendering of the first Commandment about having “other gods”.

Exodus 34:28 tells us that there are “Ten” commandments, even though Bible doesn’t number them. As a matter of fact, if you were to count all of the “You shall nots” alongside the other two that command the keeping of the Sabbath and honoring your father and mother – you would wind up with at least thirteen. Numbering them depends on exactly which “You shall nots” you group together and which ones you leave separate.

Protestants commonly split up the first Commandment into two and combine the last two into one, where we see a prohibition against the coveting of your neighbor’s wife and of ––his property. Women and property are NOT the same thing. Gal. 3:26-28 tells us that there is NO difference among those belong to Christ:
“For through faith you are all children of God in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all ONE in Christ Jesus.”

In Deuteronomy 5, we see another version of the list. Here, we see a clear distinction between a man’s wife and his property. A different word for the desire of a man’s property is used than that of the desire for his wife.

Chamad (תחמד), is used to describe the coveting a man’s wife as opposed to 'Avah (תתאוה), which is used to describe the desire for a man’s property. Chamad has a connotation of sexual desire and lust, whereas, ‘Avah means to crave or to be greedy for something material.

We now see that there are two different Commandments here and not one jumbled, all-inclusive commandment. We must remember that in Gen. 2:24, God declared that, in the union between a husband and wife, the two become ONE flesh. Jesus reiterates this fact in Mark 10:8.

Nobody "changed" anything.
You are so slick man. Might I say slithery slick. All that diatribe to avoid the fact that the C church has remove the verses 4-5 from Exodus and 8-9 from Deu. 5.
You can't get around it with your silly explanation of the numbering game, the total "thou shalts", the splitting of property versus wife, ect. Nice smoke screen. The fact remains the verses are NOT there and you know it.
And that is what opened the door for the C church to introduce all the idols, and statues and pictures that the C people bow down to, pray to, and worship. Just look around the world, there are tons of communities and villages that have the madonna as there object of worship or some patron saint. They parade in the streets carrying her overhead. You walk into the church and she is plastered everywhere more than Christ Himself.
Seriously you need to stop drinking the kool-ade.
 

GodsGrace

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judge by the fruit. which is another way of saying learn from outcomes right, they are what matter
I like this.
I'd like to PM you about this.
But first I need to find out if you have any Calvinistic leanings.
All in due time...
 
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perrero

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I see you posted links.

I don't know anything about eschatology and I'm proud of it!
It's too much for me. I'm having enough problems worrying about today.
Jesus said to take no care for Tomorrow.

The Catholic Church is post. That means Jesus is coming back at the end.
Pre means Jesus is coming to take us away and we'll miss the tribulation.

The Catholic Church does not believe in the rapture.
When asked what it mean that one was taken and one remained, the asnwer is that one was saved and one was not.

I've learned to stop arguing about stuff that has nothing to do with salvation.

I know that Jesus is coming back one time.
Would it be at the end? I think so.

I don't really want to get into Eschatology either, I've done so much teaching on it I burnt myself out on the subject.
I got saved back in 1973 and at that time our church was going through a revival period. It was in the province of Quebec, which is a province steeped in catholicism. Many French Quebecors where getting saved and I was the only bilingual French guy, our church was English at that time, able to bring them true teaching of the Word in order to decontaminate all the Catholic false doctrine. Our church grew from 40 to 700 in 4 years, it was amazing what the Lord was doing. But after the people got saved all they wanted to hear was stuff on End time events. I was teaching many things but that was a common subject and I got tired of it. I still teach it now if required in a Bible Study but I don't get into it in this forum.
But just to help you out:

Pre-Millennialism = Christ Second coming is before the Millennium (Check this out. It has an interesting observation at the end of the Parable)
Who was the Good samaritan?
Post-Millennialism = Christ Second coming is after the Millennium (This is the C position and some P denominations) In other words we are in the Millennium now.
Amillennialism = Basically No Millennial.

Pre-Trib rapture = The rapture happens before the tribulation
Post-Trib rapture = The rapture happens after the tribulation
Mid-Trib = the rapture happens in the middle of the tribulation

Ciao! 4 now
 

perrero

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We don't need to do any "works" to be saved.
God does that all by Himself.

But I do know the difference between Justification and Sanctification and I'm Learning that some don't like the Sanctification part.

Are you going to be one of those? You seem so nice.
It is NOT a specific list of things to do.
However, Jesus did leave us with many teachings and commandments that He means for us to follow.

If this is called works, or good deeds, I don't know, but Jesus did say to do them.
There's plenty of scripture in the gospels of Jesus Himself saying a lot to this.

Because I believe in Ephesians 2:8-9 doesn't mean I do not believe in good works.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Because faith without works is dead.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


I pray often that God would direct me and show those good works. And He always comes through.
Eph. 2:10 -- For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 
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mjrhealth

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1. How is a Church that teaches that Jesus is God and that He died for our sins, a cult?
Isn't a cult when you follow A PERSON?
Popes title

VICARIUS FILII DEI
THE LITERAL MEANING: VICARIUS - substituting for, or in place of

FILII - means son

DEI - means GOD

So you see it is not God they worship, their pope replaced Jesus , literally.

You really should do some research into what it did and where it came from, or are you too just playing games with us...
 
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Rollo Tamasi

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Yeah, have a nice day!
Now, now Robert.
We know you are stuck up there in those cold oil fields all day.
They can do weird things to one's mind.
I've known lots of people who have everything figured out in the Bible, and now I can add you to the list.
 

GodsGrace

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Popes title

VICARIUS FILII DEI
THE LITERAL MEANING: VICARIUS - substituting for, or in place of

FILII - means son

DEI - means GOD

So you see it is not God they worship, their pope replaced Jesus , literally.

You really should do some research into what it did and where it came from, or are you too just playing games with us...
Where's BoL when you need him?

OK. I'll take this one.

First of all the Pope is not called what you state, or at least, he's not meant to be.
I found this on Wikipedia:



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vicarius Filii Dei (Latin: Vicar or Representative of the Son of God) is a phrase first used in the forged medieval Donation of Constantine to refer to Saint Peter, a leader of the Early ChristianChurch and regarded as the first Pope by the Catholic Church.[1] Its interpretation has been disputed, at times, during the past four centuries.

You're quoting a very questioable document,which was most probably forged, and which is not accepted by better minds than yours or mine. Also, it's interesting that you know latin so well that those who speak it have a problem translating what the title even means.

Second, every preacher and ANYONE who wishes to witness is, in fact, a representative of the Son of God. When YOU witness, are not not representing Jesus? I would certainly hope so! Since at that time, the person sees YOU and not Jesus.

Thirdly, Persons in the Catholic Church worship GOD, not the Pope. There's a difference between worshipping someone and just really liking them a lot. I think they like him a lot. Like some might like Ceflo Dollar a lot.

Fourth, I know where the C C comes from. You only know PART of the story. The part you wish to concentrate on. We've already been through this, if you remember. I had said, at the time, that there's enough blame to go around. No Church is pure because MEN run it.

Fifth, I don't play games.

Sixth, you never answered my questions.

1. How does a Church that teaches that Jesus is God in the flesh and that He died to save us and that we are to follow Him -- a CULT?
Isn't a CULT when you follow a person? Catholics are following GOD.

There was a second question, but I can't figure out how to find it.
Just answer THAT ONE.

P.S. Thanks to a nice poster, I got the second question.
Here it is:

2. How is the C C binding people to hell?

 
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GodsGrace

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(this why using the software is better imo. i just clicked the invisible button, then clicked it again on that post, tracking back to your Q)
If the button is INVISIBLE
HOW am I supposed to SEE IT????????????????
uffa.
 

GodsGrace

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(this why using the software is better imo. i just clicked the invisible button, then clicked it again on that post, tracking back to your Q)
You mean those Arrow things to the right of the screen?

BTW, THANK YOU.
:)
 

GodsGrace

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(this why using the software is better imo. i just clicked the invisible button, then clicked it again on that post, tracking back to your Q)
Tried clicking on them
The upper one brings me to the very top of this pages' posts.
The bottome one brings me to the very end of this pages' posts.
I guess I'll figure it out eventually....