WHAT Is the Trinity?

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GodsGrace

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Ok, GodsGrace I'll treat you as a sister now, because you seek a true discussion instead of arguing.
let's discuss this one point at a time. I have copied you post for continued discussion.
You have the inner man, and the outward man, scripture, 2 Corinthians 4:16 "For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day". one more. Romans 7:22 "For I delight in the law of God after the inward man". the inward man is spirit, in our Lord case is called the son of man. this is who came down from heaven, scripture, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." which is not born, but Given of God. all spirits are given at birth by God (Isaiah 42:5). no woman cannot birth a spirit, nothing there to push out, spirit is "GIVEN" from God which returns after death.

now our Outward man is our FLESH, in the case of our Lord as well as us, THE SON OF GOD, which is birthed, meaning a body that is produce (in our Lord's case), and reproduce in our case. that, yes, a woman can bring forth or give birth to. son of God is flesh, scripture, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". so the son of God that flesh that vesture is born, but the son of MAN is given. let's check the record and be sure, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". see that? A CHILD/FLESH is born. a SON/SPIRIT is given. now no where in the scriptures do the son of man get crossed up with the son of God.... (smile). son of God "OUTWARD" man, son of man" INWARD" man.

so now you may reply. if not we will move on to your #2.
Wait.
I see what you mean.
You're saying that flesh can be born but not spirit.
Spirit is given.

Right!

This is also true in our case.
Were born but we receive our spirit when born again .

Great point.

I see it as the opposite though.
Body outside, spirit inside.
 

lforrest

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Wait.
I see what you mean.
You're saying that flesh can be born but not spirit.
Spirit is given.

Right!

This is also true in our case.
Were born but we receive our spirit when born again .

Great point.

I see it as the opposite though.
Body outside, spirit inside.

John 3:6
 

101G

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I never like to argue.
I'm no longer at my computer and am very limited.
Regarding the above...
I don't see the difference between what I said and what you're saying...

Could you tell me the difference?

I thought I did but I guess I failed to give you proper example. what you're saying, I believe and what I'm saying, tell me if I'm wrong is this. son to me when concering our Lord is not biological. see, my definition of Son/Spirit is used metaphorically. listen, according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words "SON" used metaphorically identifies the spirit that was GIVEN. listen to the definition, son, primarily signifies the relation of offspring to parent, but It is often used metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. it refer to those who manifest a certain character. it is use in descendants, without reference to sex. example, Romans 9:27 "Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved". Galatians 3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. so what you believe that was born/flesh called son is not what I call son that was given/spirit.

now let me try again, when the Lord Jesus died, (a natural, remember there are two deaths), his spirit, (HIM) didn't return to God as our do, but went to those who was in prison and preached to them. that's the son of man. his body, son of God was in the tomb 3 day while the spirit, the son of man was preaching to them. remember son of man is not biological, but spiritual. and the son of God is made in the likeness of flesh.

I hope you see the difference now.
 

101G

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Wait.
I see what you mean.
You're saying that flesh can be born but not spirit.
Spirit is given.

Right!

This is also true in our case.
Were born but we receive our spirit when born again .

Great point.

I see it as the opposite though.
Body outside, spirit inside.



GREAT. if you still want to wait till tommorrow, we can pick it up there.
 

GodsGrace

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Wait.
I see what you mean.
You're saying that flesh can be born but not spirit.
Spirit is given.

Right!

This is also true in our case.
Were born but we receive our spirit when born again .

Great point.

I see it as the opposite though.
Body outside, spirit inside.



GREAT. if you still want to wait till tommorrow, we can pick it up there.
Sure.
In the meantime, I'm sure you know that the Son of Man was a title given to the Messiah.
Daniel 7:13-14
 

101G

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Sure.
In the meantime, I'm sure you know that the Son of Man was a title given to the Messiah.
Daniel 7:13-14
(smile), yes the SON OF MAN have a body (the son of God/flesh and bone). just like My body take on the Identity of me, the spirit, that DWELLS in it. likewise the son of Man's body took on the identity of the spirit that in it, called JESUS. let me give you an example of this. say for instance my wife and i went to New York city. while there i was walking in central park and was mugged, shot and killed. the police find my wallet and goes to the hotel where we were residing and confront my wife with my demise. and they ask her to IDENTIFY the Body of her husband. see it now, OF, OF, OF, OF her husband. likewise on the 6 o'colck news the reporter might say something like this "there was a robbery in central park today and a person name, 101G, was shot and killed. ok, why not say 101G body was shot and killed. because was not the body shot?..... see what I mean now?. understand, the real 101G is not his body, but the possessor, or caretaker of it. understand now. see my wife can only identify her husband "BODY", not his spirit.

hope this help
 

amadeus

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Just to clarify for everyone let us presume to define God. What, we cannot? Yet some will say that God has no beginning and no ending. Is that not at least part of a definition? Can God create another God? If He and does then the new "God" would have a beginning rather than no beginning, ...or?

One place I look is the Book of Genesis and consider what Joseph was to Pharaoh:

"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou." Gen 41:40
This was the king speaking to Joseph. I see a type or shadow of God [Father] and Son [Jesus].

The Father did call Jesus God, did He not? What did He mean with the following words insofar as the godhead is concerned?

"And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." Heb 1:6-8

Not understanding? Let the one who does please then clarify without changing a thing.
 
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breathofdesire

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Who could understand God?
God's mind is not our mind.
1 Corinthians 2:11

As far as mechanisms go, it's a good way to describe it. I believe we each must come to our own understanding.

You said God is spirit, and that these three things make up His spirit.

How's this:
God is Spirit.
He became flesh when Jesus was born.
Jesus is God in the flesh.
God is Spirit, but Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit when He left. In fact, He said if He did NOT leave, the Holy Spirit could not come to be with us.

Since Jesus, as man, could not be omnipresent, it was good that HE should leave, and the Holy Spirit come to dwell in us.
John 16:7

Jesus had completed His mission as Savior - He gave His life on the cross.
Now it was time for the Holy Spirit to come as Helper and paraclete.
This shows attributes: One for Jesus, the Son, and one for the Holy Spirit.

As you stated, each person of the Holy Trinity has their particular "work" and "job".
Each one has their particular "attribute".

God Father: The Creator, the Almighty Spirit
God Jesus: The One who created, the Rhema (breath) of God, The Savior, our
example, and God "seen".
God Holy Spirit: God indwelling, our helper, our conscience (convictor), our
paraclete.
Excellent.
 

101G

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Here's the Trinity
nice satire, got a good laugh out of it, but people souls are at stake. they need the truth.
may I make a suggestion. the person is where I go. if there are three person, scripture, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. question, "is this letter, (Revelation), the book, is it from three person or one". scripture, Revelation 1:4 & 5 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood".

is this a true assessment?
1. first person, "which is, and which was, and which is to come". the one called Father?.
2. second person, "the seven Spirits". the one called the Holy Spirit?.
3. third person, "Jesus Christ". a no brainier, the Son?
is this a fair assessment?

peace in Christ
 

GodsGrace

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Just to clarify for everyone let us presume to define God. What, we cannot? Yet some will say that God has no beginning and no ending. Is that not at least part of a definition? Can God create another God? If He and does then the new "God" would have a beginning rather than no beginning, ...or?

One place I look is the Book of Genesis and consider what Joseph was to Pharaoh:

"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou." Gen 41:40
This was the king speaking to Joseph. I see a type or shadow of God [Father] and Son [Jesus].

The Father did call Jesus God, did He not? What did He mean with the following words insofar as the godhead is concerned?

"And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." Heb 1:6-8

Not understanding? Let the one who does please then clarify without changing a thing.
God the Father called the son God.
God begets God.
 

amadeus

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Are the three supposed to be equally God? Then why is that the Holy Ghost is always shortchanged by the writers of the epistles in the NT in their opening greetings? For example:

"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." I Thess 1:1

Why was the Holy Ghost ignored?
 

101G

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God the Father called the son God.
God begets God.
God beget God?, NO, but "SHARE" himself in flesh YES. look up the word G243 allos. Vine dictionary give a good definition of this sharing of ONESELF.
 

amadeus

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God the Father called the son God.
God begets God.
So then does the one who begets precede the one who is begotten? Who existed first? If one did, then one had a beginning and apparently the other one did not.

I am using logic, but this is not necessarily supporting what I believe. Rather it is showing the difficulty or even the impossibility of clearly understanding. Hey I am a believer, but I will not embrace the trinity as so many do simply because they do.
 
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GodsGrace

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God beget God?, NO, but "SHARE" himself in flesh YES. look up the word G243 allos. Vine dictionary give a good definition of this sharing of ONESELF.
"And in Jesus Christ, His only begotten son..."

Creed of the Cristian faith.
Or,,, one of them, at least.
 

GodsGrace

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So then does the one who begets precede the one who is begotten? Who existed first? If one did, then one had a beginning and apparently the other one did not.

I am using logic, but this is not necessarily supporting what I believe. Rather it is showing the difficulty or even the impossibility of clearly understanding. Hey I am a believer, but I will not embrace the trinity as so many do simply because they do.
We're told we're to believe a doctrine that could not be understood.
Tomorrow...
 

Rollo Tamasi

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nice satire, got a good laugh out of it, but people souls are at stake. they need the truth.
may I make a suggestion. the person is where I go. if there are three person, scripture, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. question, "is this letter, (Revelation), the book, is it from three person or one". scripture, Revelation 1:4 & 5 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood".

is this a true assessment?
1. first person, "which is, and which was, and which is to come". the one called Father?.
2. second person, "the seven Spirits". the one called the Holy Spirit?.
3. third person, "Jesus Christ". a no brainier, the Son?
is this a fair assessment?

peace in Christ
The Lutheran satire gives the best explanation of the trinity I've ever heard
Maybe you failed to listen to the final explanation by Patrick