Calling all Law Keepers.

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bbyrd009

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I think even though many do not understand how faith and works correlate they do have faith in God.
imo the obvious confusion of the issue is a symptom manifested by churches, and should be perceived as evidence of their overall state; if them having all signed Contracts for Jesus is not enough, that is
the "debate" is never ending, and always the same, right
regardless of the fact that

the very next thing you do will be a work, and so will the next thing after that;
and you will be judged by your works.
it should not be so easy to confuse, we do it every day

it just gets churchified and comes out like mush lol
 
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Butterfly

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Our bodies / temples were designed with the same inherent nature as the animals. By this I mean that we have all the same basic instincts as any animal which was put in place as an automated system to protect the individual and the family.
These genetically controlled instincts are the things that give us urges that do not and cannot conform to God's will. They will always be with us until we die and thus we will always be susceptible to the sin of following their urges and desires.
Christ was born of the flesh and his flesh had the same instinctual urges as any other man as we can see here;
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Hebrews 2:14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Christ who like ourselves was tempted in 3 respects:
1) lust of the flesh --hunger -turn stones into bread-
2) lust for power -- control-- -have all the kingdoms of the world-
3) pride -- test God-- -jumping from a cliff-

Christ IS the example for every man who says sin can't be resisted..... Christ IS the example for every man who has the spiritual desire to overcome the natural urges of the body. Christ is the example that proves to all men that you can beat the nature of the beast that is part of each of us and you can do it with God's helper that can let you know when to just say no.

If a man asserts that they cannot stop sinning then they are denying that Christ was made like us. They would by default be asserting that Christ didn't do it by his own free will.

Who is not able of their own free will to have no other gods before God in mind and deed?
Who is not able of their own free will to not make any graven images and serve them in mind and deed?
Who is not able of their own free will to not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain in mind and deed?
Who is not able of their own free will to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy in mind and deed?
Who is not able of their own free will to Honour thy father and thy mother in mind and deed?
Who is not able of their own free will to not kill in mind and deed?
Who is not able of their own free will to not commit adultery in mind and deed?
Who is not able of their own free will to not kill in mind and deed?
Who is not able of their own free will to not steal in mind and deed?
Who is not able of their own free will to not bear false witness in mind and deed?
Who is not able of their own free will to not covet in mind and deed?

All these things and more Christ did of his own free will choice as an example for us to follow;

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously...
Brilliantly said, this was why I earlier brought up the subject of free will and the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness, but no way could I have explained it in this way -thank you x
 
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GodsGrace

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I am not saying anything at the moment, I simply asked if Others consider Jesus to have had free will, and also bring into the discussion the point behind his own temptation in the wilderness, which I have always felt had a purpose in preparation for the beginning of his ministry.
Butterly
Of course Jesus had free will.
When He was in the Garden praying, He said,
"Not MY WILL, but Yours be done".
Luke 22:42

This means He had free will.

Please let me know when you figure out whether or not Jesus (God) was born with the sin nature.
 

bbyrd009

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This means He had free will.

Please let me know when you figure out whether or not Jesus (God) was born with the sin nature.
free will="sin nature," GG.

17This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again.
18No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from My Father."

(19Again a division took place among the Jews because of these words
.) ya, no kidding
 
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GodsGrace

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free will="sin nature," GG.

17This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again.
18No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from My Father."

(19Again a division took place among the Jews because of these words
.) ya, no kidding
Not for Jesus.
He was NOT just a man.
Sorry 'bout that.
 
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Butterfly

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Of course Jesus had free will.
When He was in the Garden praying, He said,
"Not MY WILL, but Yours be done".
Luke 22:42

This means He had free will.

Please let me know when you figure out whether or not Jesus (God) was born with the sin nature.[/QUOTe
Will I earn a brownie point if I and when I do !
I knew he had free will
So if Jesus could have chosen to go his own way rather than his fathers - would that not make him disobedient to his fathers will. Now Jesus never gave in to the temptations he experienced, so he was in his fathers will all the time - but, in my honest opinion , the potential was there.
Butterfly
 

Helen

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i never said He was, but if Jesus was not a man in body, He could not die for me

YAY!! FINALLY someone said it!! ✟

A Man, for a man.
The man Adam lost it...we were in that man. Only a man could redeem it..and our life. A life for a life.
And there is no double jeopardy...God does not punish for sin now..the slate was wiped clean on mankind's outstanding bill.
Thank you.
 
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Helen

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Will I earn a brownie point if I and when I do !
I knew He had free will.
So if Jesus could have chosen to go his own way rather than his Fathers - would that not make him disobedient to his fathers will.
Now Jesus never gave in to the temptations he experienced, so he was in his fathers will all the time - but, in my honest opinion , the potential was there.

Butterfly

Your response got a little lost within the quotes of your post!


Amen...agree. At least some people understand the GREAT sacrifice that Jesus paid in overcoming all things on our behalf.
What a wonderful awesome Saviour He is! I can feel a glory shout coming on!
Yay God!!
 
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Butterfly

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Your response got a little lost within the quotes of your post!


Amen...agree. At least some people understand the GREAT sacrifice that Jesus paid in overcoming all things on our behalf.
What a wonderful awesome Saviour He is! I can feel a glory shout coming on!
Yay God!!
Yes I messed up with quote - then could not find a way to change it !!
 
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jimd

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It seems obvious to me that Jesus had a sin nature but He overcame it, not just for Himself but for us also, if we have faith in Him. Thank you Jesus!
 

GodsGrace

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i never said He was, but if Jesus was not a man in body, He could not die for me
Who said he wasn't a man in body?
I'll try again...
Jesus was 100% man,,,fully man
And 100% God,,, fully God.

Understand it as you will.
If you can believe God ever had a sin nature,,,
I have some bldg property for sale in flamingo Florida.
Interested?
 

KBCid

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The entire problem of people trying to understand the Christ / man problem is derived from not having an understanding of who the us represented in genesis really is. This was precisely why the HS had me start at the beginning as I was learning about God.
The beings that we are came directly from God. Our spirit was once part of God so effectively we are spiritual inhabitants existing within created temples. This is why it was written "ye are gods" because in a smaller manner we are gods whose living essence came out from the Father. This was the only way that God could form their image.
Now all people have to figure out is how Christ can be God's Son while still trying to rationalize the teaching of men that hold a belief that the Son and the Father are still essentially one being.
If one believes that Christ was fully God then why would Christ himself say;
John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
10...the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

If Christ is in essence the Father then all the words he spoke about himself in reference to his Father would be lies. Christ and the Father are two individual beings just as each of us are individual beings.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Acts 2:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

The Authority of the Son
John 5:16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Most people never grasp the significance of the above verse but in ancient Jewish society a mans first born son would hold the same power as his father does which is why the Jews were hating on Christ simply because "he claimed to be God's Son"... not because they thought he was implying that he himself was the Father.

Everyone should really pay attention to this parable as it is reality.
The Parable of the Wicked Tenants
Matt 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

So when did Christ become the Fathers Son?
 

Helen

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@KBCid Good post, and well laid out. I totally believe that Jesus was both God and man....limiting Himself to a human body.
I have never wrapped my head around the 100% God and 100% man...that makes 200% to me.

....Watching this space.
 
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jimd

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The entire problem of people trying to understand the Christ / man problem is derived from not having an understanding of who the us represented in genesis really is. This was precisely why the HS had me start at the beginning as I was learning about God.
The beings that we are came directly from God. Our spirit was once part of God so effectively we are spiritual inhabitants existing within created temples. This is why it was written "ye are gods" because in a smaller manner we are gods whose living essence came out from the Father. This was the only way that God could form their image.
Now all people have to figure out is how Christ can be God's Son while still trying to rationalize the teaching of men that hold a belief that the Son and the Father are still essentially one being.
If one believes that Christ was fully God then why would Christ himself say;
John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
10...the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

If Christ is in essence the Father then all the words he spoke about himself in reference to his Father would be lies. Christ and the Father are two individual beings just as each of us are individual beings.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Acts 2:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

The Authority of the Son
John 5:16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Most people never grasp the significance of the above verse but in ancient Jewish society a mans first born son would hold the same power as his father does which is why the Jews were hating on Christ simply because "he claimed to be God's Son"... not because they thought he was implying that he himself was the Father.

Everyone should really pay attention to this parable as it is reality.
The Parable of the Wicked Tenants
Matt 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

So when did Christ become the Fathers Son?
I notice you left out all the scripture where Jesus unquestionably refers to Himself as God, which shows you are unwilling to consider both sides.
No human body can contain the totality of God. Christ (GOD WITH US) is Gods solution for us. PRAISE HIM!
 
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KBCid

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I notice you left out all the scripture where Jesus unquestionably refers to Himself as God, which shows you are unwilling to consider both sides.
No human body can contain the totality of God. Christ (GOD WITH US) is Gods solution for us. PRAISE HIM!
Your not getting the point I made.
WE are all gods.... ANYTHING that comes from the Father spiritually is a god.
God the Father was with Christ... Christ is not the Father.... WE are not the Father and we can have God with us just as Christ did.
Christ showed us that just like himself WE could have GOD with us.
The difference between us and Christ is that he is God's first born and after he ascended to the Father the Father gave, granted, empowered Christ with authority that he did not have prior as it is written;

Matt 28:18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Christ who had a spirit and a body just like our own with our same free will lived a sinless life just like we can if we follow the Fathers direction through the Holy Spirit just like Christ had and then we can be brothers and sisters and mothers to the Fathers first born Son who was anointed and given, granted, empowered by the Father to be our advocate. Christ was the first fruit of many.

Acts 5:31 "He (Christ) is the one whom God (the Father) exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

John 10:18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again This commandment I received from My Father."

God would not give a commandment to himself. The Father gave a commandment to his Son just as any earthly father can command his son.

Hebrews 1:2 - Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Christ is not the Father but he is the Fathers first born and was the one through whom the Father made everything and he was the one that the Father sent to save us and after he proved that a sinless life was possible for an individual spirit within a fleshly temple his Father gave him, granted him, empowered him with authority and power as his first Son to be the Fathers representative between man and the Father. When we worship the Son we are also worshipping the Father since the Father and Son are both one in purpose just as we can also be one in purpose with them.
 

Richard_oti

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<snip>
So if Jesus could have chosen to go his own way rather than his fathers - would that not make him disobedient to his fathers will. Now Jesus never gave in to the temptations he experienced, so he was in his fathers will all the time - but, in my honest opinion , the potential was there.

Heb 5:8 though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered
 
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Richard_oti

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<snip>
The Authority of the Son

1Co 15:24 then--the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power-- 25 for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet-- 26 the last enemy is done away--death; 27 for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, it is evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him, 28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.


So when did Christ become the Fathers Son?

Excellent question. The answer sheds light.
 
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