The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

[Richard_oti]

You are aware though, that there is Instruction with regard to the washing of hands.

Nothing?

 

[Rev20]

why to the Jew first then, someone will ask.

I forgot to mention that there is also "order" found in one of the prophecies of Isaiah. The Septuagint version provides better detail:

"And he said to me, It is a great thing for thee to be called my servant, to establish the tribes of Jacob, and to recover the dispersion of Israel: behold, I have given thee for the covenant of a race, for a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation to the end of the earth." -- Isa 49:6 LXX

Christ sent his disciples to recover the dispersion of Israel:

"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." -- Mat 10:5-6 KJV

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." -- Jas 1:1 KJV

"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered [Greek: diaspora] throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." -- 1Pet 1:1-2 KJV

"But ye are a chosen generation [Greek: chosen race], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." -- 1Pet 2:9-10 KJV

Verse 9 of 1st Peter 2 is virtually word-for-word from an Exodus promise to Israel:

'And now if ye will indeed hear my voice, and keep my covenant, ye shall be to me a peculiar people above all nations; for the whole earth is mine. And ye shall be to me a royal priesthood and a holy nation: these words shalt thou speak to the children of Israel.' -- Exo 19:5-6 LXX

Jesus said his sheep heard his voice (John 10:27).


Verse 10 of 1st Peter 2 references a Hosea prophecy promising the restoration of the two houses (e.g., to recover the dispersion of Israel, as also foretold in Isa 49:6, above):

'And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.' -- Hos 1:6 KJV

"Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son. Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God." -- Hos 1:8-9 KJV

'Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.' -- Hos 1:10-11 KJV

'And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.' -- Hos 2:23 KJV

Hosea lived before the house of Israel was taken into captivity by the Assyrians. The house of Israel was cut-off from being the children of God (divorced) (1:9), and God said he would no longer have mercy on them (1:6). But God also foretold the day when he would again have mercy on them, and they would again be his children (verse 2:23). God also said the houses of Israel and Judah would be joined again into a single kingdom (1:10-11). Now compare with 1 Peter 2:10 in his letter to the scattered tribes in Asia Minor.


The fulfillment of the last part of Isaiah 49:6 -- for a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation to the end of the earth -- was assigned later to Paul and Barnabas:

"Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth." -- Acts 13:46-47 KJV


So, the disciples were sent to the dispersion, while Paul and Barnabas were sent to the Gentiles, though Paul magnified his office to try to save some of his kinfolk, as mentioned in Rom 11:13-14 and in the book of Acts after chapter 13. That action by Paul (trying to save some of the Jews) was not outside his mission:

"But the Lord said unto [Ananias], Go thy way: for [Paul] is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:" -- Acts 9:15 KJV

Rev

 

[Richard_oti]

If you err in these lesser matters, I cannot imagine what greater matters you also err in.

Speaking of to "err", I attempted to speak to you with kindness. You have clearly demonstrated a "stubbornness" on your part when it comes to any word of correction or advise.

You claim you (and everyone) must uphold / observe some command that is taken to the point of being ludicrous, while you are more than willing to excuse yourself elsewhere:

I am obligated by my own conscience to obey it literally as given, as opposed to other commands where I have knowledge that permit not to observe them literally, such as festivals and abstinence from certain meats.

I warn you with regard to your judgment upon others, for you are only heaping it upon yourself. And your heart is hard enough already.

 

[KBCid]

We are not talking about sin here are we but the law, you know that bit about teh law is made for sinners, not teh rightousess.

Sin is the breaking of the law.

We have no more to discuss since you have avoided every single point I made and are intent on living a sinful life believing you are saved without ever having to turn from sin. You have chosen your path and I have mine and I will support the truth or oppose untruth when I see it.

 

[Rev20]

That is actually as sad post. Because anything that is not of faith is sin.
You obviously do not have enough faith in what Jesus Christ has done.
You think adding to your wee bit of faith is going to please God...it will not , we cannot add to the Finished work.
Also the "I fear God and want to obey Him" is a sad confession for someone who is called to be in The Bride Of Christ. Some 'happy wife'...living in fear and frightened that they will do something that brings punishment.

I know of what I speak...I too "lived there" until the 80's.
May God bless you with His Light.

Grace, since you mentioned it, one of Israel's sins was not serving the Lord with joy and gladness:

"Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever. Because thou servedst not the Lord thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things;" -- Deu 28:45-47 KJV

David understood:

"O come, let us sing unto the Lord: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation. Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms." -- Ps 95:1-2 KJV

"Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands. Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing." -- Ps 100:1-2 KJV

Rev

 

[KBCid]

I replied. You are only upset because I will not play your silly teacher/student game.
I deny your interpretation was/is the intention of Christ and his New Covenant with the houses of Israel and Judah. Rev

Upset? Nope that was an old sinful nature that I have long since turned from since anger promotes evil.

You are free to deny anything and everything and since the entirety of your response in essence is a denial of all but one commandment then tell me if there is no moral laws in the new covenant how can sin still exist since sin is the breaking of the law? Are we free to kill people as long as we believe in Christ? The CC felt that was an ok thing to believe in as they gave indulgences to crusaders who were killing God's enemies. God's government must be a sinners paradise since there are no laws restricting how people must live with both God and their other creations. That whole bit about being angry with your brother being the equivalent of murder and lusting a married person being equal with adultery must be just some stuff for those bad Jews who had lived under the law...

 

[KBCid]

Yet, there is a command with regard to the washing of hands. The same command from which the "tradition" came. Your silence with regard to my earlier post was deafening.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Tell me ChristianG, do you consider yourself to be a part of the "royal priesthood" spoken of above?
It comes from the same source as the washing of hands. You are upholding and insisting that others uphold that which is NOT there.

Depth of meaning.....

Exodus 40:30-32 He set the basin between the tent of meeting and the altar, and put water in it for washing, with which Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet. When they went into the tent of meeting, and when they approached the altar, they washed, as the Lord commanded Moses.

Hebrews 10:19-22 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

I love God

 

[kiwimac]

Sin is the breaking of the law.

We have no more to discuss since you have avoided every single point I made and are intent on living a sinful life believing you are saved without ever having to turn from sin. You have chosen your path and I have mine and I will support the truth or oppose untruth when I see it.

You don't get to decide who is a sinner and who not for that is God's purview alone. We are supposed to deal with all manner of folk as Christ did. You remember Him? Called a glutton and drunkard because he dared fellowship with people the keepers of the law looked down on.

 

[mjrhealth]

Sin is the breaking of the law.

We have no more to discuss since you have avoided every single point I made and are intent on living a sinful life believing you are saved without ever having to turn from sin. You have chosen your path and I have mine and I will support the truth or oppose untruth when I see it.

I guess you missed it, Adam and Eve sinned in the garden of Eden , when was the Law given to Moses, how many years after Adam??? Sin is simply anything that we do that separates us from God or effects someone else in a bad way. And teh reason you wont discuss like many is simply because you dont desire the truth, prefer the lies.

 

[Rev20]

You are free to deny anything and everything and since the entirety of your response in essence is a denial of all but one commandment then tell me if there is no moral laws in the new covenant how can sin still exist since sin is the breaking of the law?

Those are your words, not mine.

Are we free to kill people as long as we believe in Christ?

I suppose that would be okay, if you can figure out a way to kill someone while loving them. I won't hold my breath.

The CC felt that was an ok thing to believe in as they gave indulgences to crusaders who were killing God's enemies.

They should have stuck with following Matthew 7:12, rather than the doctrines of mere men.

God's government must be a sinners paradise since there are no laws restricting how people must live with both God and their other creations.

You have not been paying attention. This is God's law, from early on:

"Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord." -- Lev 19:18 KJV

"And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." -- Lev 19:33-34 KJV

"And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the Lord." -- Zec 8:17 KJV

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" -- Mat 5:43-44 KJV

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." -- Mat 7:12-14 KJV

"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." -- Mat 22:36-40 KJV

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." -- John 3:17 KJV

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." -- John 15:12 KJV

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." -- John 15:13 KJV

"These things I command you, that ye love one another." -- John 15:17 KJV

"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." -- Rom 13:9 KJV

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." -- Rom 13:10 KJV

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." -- 1Cor 13:1-3 KJV

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." -- Gal 5:14 KJV

"And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God." -- Eph 3:19 KJV

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well" -- Jas 2:8-9 KJV

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." -- 1Pet 1:22-23 KJV

"And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins." -- 1Pet 4:8 KJV

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." -- 1John 3:23 KJV

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God." -- 1John 4:7 KJV

"And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another." -- 2John 1:5 KJV

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," -- Rev 1:5 KJV


This is just a hunch, but I suspect God wanted us to love one another.

That whole bit about being angry with your brother being the equivalent of murder and lusting a married person being equal with adultery must be just some stuff for those bad Jews who had lived under the law...

I believe the first part is worded as being "angry without a cause"; and there was no mention of murder in that passage.

I think I finally understand you. You believe that if you hate yourself you have a right to hate everyone else. Thankfully God's law doesn't work that way. If you do not love God, who is Love, then you are breaking the law (the first great commandment). That is, if you do not love "Love", you are breaking the law.

In all fairness, I don't see how anyone can follow the law unless it is written in their hearts. Love is not something you can pull out of your bag of tricks, or add to your daily schedule, or read from a list of legalisms. It must be written in your heart.

Rev

 

[KBCid]

You don't get to decide who is a sinner and who not for that is God's purview alone. We are supposed to deal with all manner of folk as Christ did. You remember Him? Called a glutton and drunkard because he dared fellowship with people the keepers of the law looked down on.

Ezekiel 3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

Christ was the one that said in John 8:11 ... go, and sin no more.

1 Pet 3:10 For, He that would love life, And see good days, Let him refrain his tongue from evil, And his lips that they speak no guile: 11And let him turn away from evil, and do good; Let him seek peace, and pursue it. 12For the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, And his ears unto their supplication: But the face of the Lord is upon them that do evil.

Backing a sinner to help try to justify knowingly sinning is not a wise path to take. In any event warning was given and it is up to the Lord to open the understanding. My conscience is clear.

 

[christiang]

1 John 3:6
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

In the days before and during the time of Christ, one was either of the chosen (of Israel) and under the law, or of the gentiles and not under the law. But today, and since the death of that last generation of whom Christ was the Last, the chosen are "the dead in Christ." What we have today and since then, are the gentiles (for these are the times of the gentiles), and also those who are not the chosen, but those who are born [again] of the spirit of God, born directly into God without adoption through the flesh.

In other words, we cannot choose ourselves, nor since Christ, is it even possible to be among the chosen - for He was the Last. Meaning that we being of the gentiles (not being of the chosen of Israel) are not under the law, and if we are born of the spirit of God, the law was never against God, but for Him, for He is perfect. As are we, if we are born of Him.

Therefore, the only way to be under the law during these times, is to choose ones self as chosen of God - which cannot be done.

This is not so, for whoever is born of the Spirit now is indeed among the chosen, and this choice came before the foundations of the world were laid, which was on the third day of creation when dry land was caused to appear. The Gentiles who are now born of the Spirit become descendants of Abraham, and grafted into the one olive tree, Israel.

 

[christiang]

So by your own words, I have your permission to be harsh with you, for you are stubborn, and do not see as well as you think you see.

Think about why you are telling me this, what have I said that I should be berated by you, or any of these other people? I teach obedience to the commands of God, why should this be cause to berate me? Berate someone who teaches pursing wealth is okay, or that sexual immorality is okay, but you're going to berate me for obedience to the Law of God? Do you even realize what you are opposing?

 

[christiang]

Since I have your permission by your own words: You are deceiving yourself. You have a long way to go before you teach "exactly" what is taught in Scripture. You are missing the mark in more ways than you know. That is a fact.

What have I missed? Be plain.

 

[christiang]

You would do well to heed your own advise. For I have seen you make excuses with certain things in so that you need not uphold the law with regard to them. As you have so judged, shall come back upon your own head.

Tell me, what am I in disobedience in specifically?

 

[christiang]

Yet, there is a command with regard to the washing of hands. The same command from which the "tradition" came. Your silence with regard to my earlier post was deafening.


1Pe 2:9 But ye are a elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Tell me ChristianG, do you consider yourself to be a part of the "royal priesthood" spoken of above?

<snip>



It comes from the same source as the washing of hands. You are upholding and insisting that others uphold that which is NOT there.


You clearly stated, and I quote:


By which, you make yourself a liar. For you are not truly doing so. And yes, by your own words, I have your permission to be harsh.

<snip the rest>

There is no command regarding the washing of hands, except the command given to the priests in relation to temple duty, as were other commands given to priests concerning the holy temple. This, however, was not a command for everyone to wash their hands before eating, that became a tradition of men that was not commanded by God.

 

[christiang]

And there you go, making a clear statement that shabat has changed. Thus also, by which you excuse yourself of the fullness of it. In 1 Corinthians 5, Paul makes the clear admonishment, therefore let us keep the feast.

Everyone that replied to you, though it was done in kindness and in earnest, you retorted unto them in a manner that was less than becoming. And one of them, myself excluded, I know does in fact follow after the Instruction. Your replies showed no discernment on your part.

The Sabbath has changed, for we observe not the weekly Sabbath, but the millennial Sabbath to fulfill the requirement to observe Sabbath. I suggest you read these two studies. Clearly I know more than you (I boast in the Lord),

The True Sabbath and the Millennial Rest Foreshadowed | Wisdom of God
Why the Law Is Not Abolished, Yet Circumcision, Festivals, Sacrifices, Sabbaths, Foods Are No Longer Observed | Wisdom of God

 

[bbyrd009]

judge not, lest you be judged

 

[ScottA]

This is not so, for whoever is born of the Spirit now is indeed among the chosen, and this choice came before the foundations of the world were laid, which was on the third day of creation when dry land was caused to appear. The Gentiles who are now born of the Spirit become descendants of Abraham, and grafted into the one olive tree, Israel.

That is correct, which I did not mean to contradict. For the sake of understanding to whom the law was given, I stuck to those not grafted in, for clarity. But the fact remains, that those that are grafted in (and not part of the natural branches), not Israel, were never under the law. So, then, "chosen" indeed does mean something different for each in coming into Christ, but not in the end. Thank you for the opportunity to clarify.

 

[christiang]

That is correct, which I did not mean to contradict. For the sake of understanding to whom the law was given, I stuck to those not grafted in, for clarity. But the fact remains, that those are grafted in (not part of the natural branches), not Israel, were never under the law. So, then, "chosen" indeed does mean something different for each in coming into Christ, but not in the end. Thank you for the opportunity to clarify.

If you are under sin, then you are under Law, which includes not just Jews, but also Gentiles. You can only be released from Law, once you have been released from sin, where subsequently, in being released from sin, you obey Law. The release from sin happens at the baptism of the holy spirit. Only few are chosen for this.