What does Our Savior consider Idolatry

[epostle1]

hey @kepha31 sorry to interrupt, but i'm arguing your pov on the RCC "removing Christ from" someone, that the language has changed or whatever now, but i'm way out of my depth there, could you tell me where that was changed? ty

Without the name of the forum and subforum, and the thread title, I'll never find it. More info please, I'd be glad to help.

 

[DPMartin]

The Winter Solstice was NOT a Roman Civil holiday until 273 AD. The Emperor Aurelian made December 25th a civil holiday because the Christians were already using it to celebrate the Birth of Jesus and he was trying to detract from the Christian celebration!

None of the Sun Cults used December 25th before then. It appears that the Winter Solstice was originally a CHRISTIAN feast that the pagans tried to paganize, not the other way around.

I said, "Idolatry is worship of any created physical object, which does not include all created objects as Scripture clearly shows." That is a brief definition in the context of the discussion, your exception proves nothing.

I'm still waiting for an answer to the question at the bottom of post #72.

well keep waiting, its obvious your here for pissing matches, good luck with that. and you still haven't shown to be correct on anything towards me, "it appears" is a nice cya statement, were is the facts? and winter Solstice is the 21st +- 24 hrs not the 25th come on now get it right. pull your head out of your back side and take another breath before you post again. keep going, and we will have to dub you kepha31 the ignoramus

 

[BreadOfLife]

If these statues are treated with the same reverence as the Jesus and Mary statues, then yes, they are idols.

Sooooo, treating something with reverence is idolatry??

What would you say to all of those people at funerals who treat the corpse and casket with reverence??
What would you say to all of those people who proudly display pictures of their children and aunt Winnie on their mantle??
What would you say to the soldier who kisses a photograph of his sweetheart every night??
What would you say to the person who handles a family heirloom with care and reverence because it is a reminder of their family??

Idolatry is the WORSHIP of images.
Images only become idols when ther are worshiped.

 

[BreadOfLife]

well keep waiting, its obvious your here for pissing matches, good luck with that. and you still haven't shown to be correct on anything towards me, "it appears" is a nice cya statement, were is the facts? and winter Solstice is the 21st +- 24 hrs not the 25th come on now get it right. pull your head out of your back side and take another breath before you post again. keep going, and we will have to dub you kepha31 the ignoramus

No - it looks like Kepha31 did his homework and schooled you pretty good.

Don't be content to spew the same, tired old anti-Catholic rubbish. Do your homework and study your history - instead of those moronic Jack Chick tracts . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Romans 1
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Ahhhhh, taking Scripture completely out of context.
The blind leading the blind . . .

"Who is the bigger fool - the fool or the fool who follows him?"
- Obi Wan Kenobi

 

[DPMartin]

No - it looks like Kepha31 did his homework and schooled you pretty good.

Don't be content to spew the same, tired old anti-Catholic rubbish. Do your homework and study your history - instead of those moronic Jack Chick tracts . . .

why? its fun bashing Catholics nothing personal, just business. but your friend there loves to bash protestants.

anyway no I don't bash Catholics because they are catholic, people make themselves the desirable target for hostilities by their own hostilities which isn't unique to Catholics its just that your friend there happens to be catholic and you of course. I'm an equal opportunity ignorant jag off that's rude and crusty to anyone who asks for it. honest you don't have to be catholic.

why you guys got this venomous attack towards protestants (actually anyone Christian that ain't catholic) at the drop of a hat, I don't know. oh I'm sure you can find reasons in your own circles for hating anyone that isn't like you, but that's just an excuse for the kind of wrath God hates, isn't it?

 

[epostle1]

well keep waiting, its obvious your here for pissing matches, good luck with that. and you still haven't shown to be correct on anything towards me, "it appears" is a nice cya statement, were is the facts? and winter Solstice is the 21st +- 24 hrs not the 25th come on now get it right.

That's what I said.
The Winter Solstice was NOT a Roman Civil holiday until 273 AD. That fact is from wikipedia and you correcting me is a pretense.

The Emperor Aurelian made December 25th a civil holiday because the Christians were already using it to celebrate the Birth of Jesus and he was trying to detract from the Christian celebration!

Look it up.

None of the Sun Cults used December 25th before then. Look it up. It appears that the Winter Solstice was originally a CHRISTIAN feast that the pagans tried to paganize, not the other way around.

pull your head out of your back side and take another breath before you post again. keep going, and we will have to dub you kepha31 the ignoramus

It's not me with reading comprehension issues. What you hate is the evidence that Christians (Catholics) had some form of Christmas celebration as early as the mid 2nd century. Do you know what liturgy is? You are forced to dispense with, re-write or ignore history because it doesn't line up with your preconceptions.

 

[epostle1]

why? its fun bashing Catholics nothing personal, just business. but your friend there loves to bash protestants.

anyway no I don't bash Catholics because they are catholic, people make themselves the desirable target for hostilities by their own hostilities which isn't unique to Catholics its just that your friend there happens to be catholic and you of course. I'm an equal opportunity ignorant jag off that's rude and crusty to anyone who asks for it. honest you don't have to be catholic.

why you guys got this venomous attack towards protestants (actually anyone Christian that ain't catholic) at the drop of a hat, I don't know. oh I'm sure you can find reasons in your own circles for hating anyone that isn't like you, but that's just an excuse for the kind of wrath God hates, isn't it?

I don't bash Protestants, I defend against attacks and insults like your anti-Catholic remarks and historical ignorance in post #66. MOST OF THE TIME what few Catholics in here post is defensive, or haven't you noticed? But I did turn the tables on the standard statue worship insanity that ALWAYS comes from ignorant anti-Catholics. The Reformation Wall is classic Protestant hypocrisy IMO.

In respose to post #66,
Doesn't your church have the power and authority to wipe out idolatry, and heresy's and paganism? You sure expect it from Catholicism.

That's ok. I am not expecting an answer.

 

[BreadOfLife]

why? its fun bashing Catholics nothing personal, just business. but your friend there loves to bash protestants.

anyway no I don't bash Catholics because they are catholic, people make themselves the desirable target for hostilities by their own hostilities which isn't unique to Catholics its just that your friend there happens to be catholic and you of course. I'm an equal opportunity ignorant jag off that's rude and crusty to anyone who asks for it. honest you don't have to be catholic.

why you guys got this venomous attack towards protestants (actually anyone Christian that ain't catholic) at the drop of a hat, I don't know. oh I'm sure you can find reasons in your own circles for hating anyone that isn't like you, but that's just an excuse for the kind of wrath God hates, isn't it?

Sooooo, YOU think that when a Catholic has had enough of the ignorant anti-Catholic garbage around here - we should just stay quiet? And, if we don't - WE are the ones on the "attack" against lying, anti-Catholic Protestants?
That's a pretty perverted way of looking at it.

The plain fact is that when people like you get Scripturally and historically spanked by an educated Catholic - you get defensive.
All of a sudden it those "mean, hateful Catholics" on that attack.

Lemme give you a little advice: Do your homework and we won't have to expose your ignorance.
It's that simple . . .

 

[Truth]

Christmas and Easter are not concessions to idolatry. They are largely cultural holidays with heavy Christian influence. You must live in a scary world. I hope you don't have children.

Martin Luther Day, Oct. 31, coincides with Halloween. According to your logic, the founder of Protestantism is a pagan and idolatror. I do not support this ridiculous non sequitur and you should stop making them up.

No! I don't have children! the holidays that the Churches keep, and the rest of the world keep, are man made, which would be considered the Traditions of men! which make the word of God to no effect. a little research into the Origins of these traditions would reflect what they are, and where they were established!

 

[Truth]

ha ya, seems impossible, until we observe that pure hearted people observe other holidays that we might not agree with, and we are commanded not to dispute holidays. Galatians 4:10 You observe special days, months, seasons, and years. (You are trying to earn favor with God by observing certain days or months or seasons or years.)

Sorry! I have started back to full time work, so I am not able to get to the Library to participate!!
I went back to Galatians-4 and read the chapt in the fullness of its context. 4:8 But then! Indeed, When you did not know God! You served those which by nature are not gods!
4-9 But now after you have Known God! Or rather are known by God! How [is it that] you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements! To which you desire again to be in bondage?
Paul is not speaking of the Feast days, He is speaking of the things they use to observe!
Yes! I would like to find favor, I would like to Please God. So I Celebrate Passover, at Passover!
I Celebrate the Resurrection, on the Day of First Fruits!
I Celebrate the Birth of our Savior, on the First Day of the Feast of Tabernacles! These are the very Holidays that our Savior not only kept, But He also fulfilled them!

Acts 18: 20-21 - When they asked Him [Paul] to stay longer with them, He [Paul] did not consent, 21- but took leave of them, saying, I must by all means keep this coming Feast in Jerusalem;
chapt 20:16 For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that He would not have to spend time in Asia; for He was hurrying to be in Jerusalem, if Possible, on the Day of Pentecost!
Paul an Apostle to the Gentiles, is declaring to the Gentiles, that He must by all means keep this coming Feast!
1st Corinthians 5:7-8 Therefore purge out the old Leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was Sacrificed for us.
8- Therefore let us keep the Feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. Shavuot and Pentecost are the same Feast, Shavuot and Pentecost mean 50- 7 Sabbaths + 1 day!

 

[Truth]

Deut 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch

It is well known that this specific Idol worship, was a worship to a god for prosperity, they would come before this Idol and voice their desires for the coming year, and then lay their Infant child in the arms of a Idol that had been heated with wood and pitch, so that it was red hot, and the child would be seared until it fell through the arms and fell into the pit beneath. Israel had such an Idol in the Hennam valley! so we get Gehennom. which means Valley of Suffering, also we get the term the Pit of Hell! Sad but true!

 

[Truth]

Deuteronomy 4
15 “Take careful heed to yourselves, for you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire,
16 lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female,

Someone else on this site has said that the Truth will never Offend someone who seeks Truth, we can believe a Lie for 50 years, But it doesn't become Truth for our sake!

 

[epostle1]

Someone else on this site has said that the Truth will never Offend someone who seeks Truth, we can believe a Lie for 50 years, But it doesn't become Truth for our sake!

No! I don't have children! the holidays that the Churches keep, and the rest of the world keep, are man made, which would be considered the Traditions of men! which make the word of God to no effect. a little research into the Origins of these traditions would reflect what they are, and where they were established!

Which authentic Traditions are man made?

Sorry! I have started back to full time work, so I am not able to get to the Library to participate!!
I went back to Galatians-4 and read the chapt in the fullness of its context. 4:8 But then! Indeed, When you did not know God! You served those which by nature are not gods!
4-9 But now after you have Known God! Or rather are known by God! How [is it that] you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements! To which you desire again to be in bondage?
Paul is not speaking of the Feast days, He is speaking of the things they use to observe!
Yes! I would like to find favor, I would like to Please God. So I Celebrate Passover, at Passover!
I Celebrate the Resurrection, on the Day of First Fruits!
I Celebrate the Birth of our Savior, on the First Day of the Feast of Tabernacles! These are the very Holidays that our Savior not only kept, But He also fulfilled them!

Acts 18: 20-21 - When they asked Him [Paul] to stay longer with them, He [Paul] did not consent, 21- but took leave of them, saying, I must by all means keep this coming Feast in Jerusalem;
chapt 20:16 For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that He would not have to spend time in Asia; for He was hurrying to be in Jerusalem, if Possible, on the Day of Pentecost!
Paul an Apostle to the Gentiles, is declaring to the Gentiles, that He must by all means keep this coming Feast!
1st Corinthians 5:7-8 Therefore purge out the old Leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was Sacrificed for us.
8- Therefore let us keep the Feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. Shavuot and Pentecost are the same Feast, Shavuot and Pentecost mean 50- 7 Sabbaths + 1 day!

So you celebrate Passover, The Resurrection, that most people call Easter, and the Birth of the Savior, that most people call Christmas. What's the problem?BTW, Pentecost is normally celebrated 40 days after the Ascension.

It is well known that this specific Idol worship, was a worship to a god for prosperity, they would come before this Idol and voice their desires for the coming year, and then lay their Infant child in the arms of a Idol that had been heated with wood and pitch, so that it was red hot, and the child would be seared until it fell through the arms and fell into the pit beneath. Israel had such an Idol in the Hennam valley! so we get Gehennom. which means Valley of Suffering, also we get the term the Pit of Hell! Sad but true!

You may be referring to the false god Mollock where the Amalekites would burn children alive, and God ordered the Israelites to wipe them out.

 

[Truth]

Which authentic Traditions are man made?

So you celebrate Passover, The Resurrection, that most people call Easter, and the Birth of the Savior, that most people call Christmas. What's the problem?BTW, Pentecost is normally celebrated 40 days after the Ascension.

You may be referring to the false god Mollock where the Amalekites would burn children alive, and God ordered the Israelites to wipe them out.

First answer-- Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Valentines Day, all made up from the Imaginations of mans Mind! Not found in the Scriptures!!
Second answer-- I keep the Days that are in the Scriptures, According to what God Commanded. according to Gods Calendar< Passover on Passover! the Resurrection on the Day of First Fruits, and the Birth of our Savior on the Day He was Born, The First High Sabbath of the Feast of Tabernacles!
Third answer-- Mollock and Chemish are the same Deity! and the Israelite's did take to worshiping this god!

 

[BreadOfLife]

First answer-- Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Valentines Day, all made up from the Imaginations of mans Mind! Not found in the Scriptures!!

Ummmm, first of all - Halloween and Valentine's Day aren't Sacred Tradition.

Secondly - Christmas and Easter ARE found in Scripture:
Christmas - Luke 2:1-20
Easter - Luke 24:1-12

Why would you say that they aren't found in Scripture??

 

[Truth]

Ummmm, first of all - Halloween and Valentine's Day aren't Sacred Tradition.

Secondly - Christmas and Easter ARE found in Scripture:
Christmas - Luke 2:1-20
Easter - Luke 24:1-12

Why would you say that they aren't found in Scripture??

Easter is found one time and it was translated from the word pascha, which means Passover Acts 12:4! KJV
What you have given In Luke is what the world uses for the Story of these two holidays, there is no mention of Christmas or Easter, in either of these two witnesses you have provided. they are what took place as far as the birth and the Resurrection of our Savior. But God Gave us the the Holy Convocations, in which all the same things happened as in the two witnesses you Gave, and they took place on the very Days, according to Gods Calendar, His times and Seasons. All came about perfectly in God's Timing. God wrote the Play!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Easter is found one time and it was translated from the word pascha, which means Passover Acts 12:4! KJV
What you have given In Luke is what the world uses for the Story of these two holidays, there is no mention of Christmas or Easter, in either of these two witnesses you have provided. they are what took place as far as the birth and the Resurrection of our Savior. But God Gave us the the Holy Convocations, in which all the same things happened as in the two witnesses you Gave, and they took place on the very Days, according to Gods Calendar, His times and Seasons. All came about perfectly in God's Timing. God wrote the Play!

Soooo, YOUR problem is the the words "Christmas" and "Easter" are not in Scripture so they shouldn't be recognized?
I hate to have to be the one to tell you this - but Incarnation isn't in the Bible either, yet it is a core belief of Christianity. "Trinity" isn't in Scripture, yet it is THE core doctrine of Christianity.

You know what else isn't in Scripture?? The list of Books that make up the Bible.
Yup - the Canon of Scripture is a Tradition of the Catholic Church.

Why do YOU adhere to it?

 

[Richard_oti]

It is well known that this specific Idol worship, was a worship to a god for prosperity, they would come before this Idol and voice their desires for the coming year, and then lay their Infant child in the arms of a Idol that had been heated with wood and pitch, so that it was red hot, and the child would be seared until it fell through the arms and fell into the pit beneath. Israel had such an Idol in the Hennam valley! so we get Gehennom. which means Valley of Suffering, also we get the term the Pit of Hell! Sad but true!

Indeed. It can be seen throughout the TaNaKh, and there is a reference within the N.T. as well.

2Ki 23:10 And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.

Act 7:43 And ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of the god Rephan, The figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

 

[epostle1]

Easter is found one time and it was translated from the word pascha, which means Passover Acts 12:4! KJV

Why is pascha found only in the KJV?

What you have given In Luke is what the world uses for the Story of these two holidays, there is no mention of Christmas or Easter, in either of these two witnesses you have provided. they are what took place as far as the birth and the Resurrection of our Savior. But God Gave us the the Holy Convocations, in which all the same things happened as in the two witnesses you Gave, and they took place on the very Days, according to Gods Calendar, His times and Seasons. All came about perfectly in God's Timing. God wrote the Play!

We call it a liturgical calendar.