What does Our Savior consider Idolatry

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

tabletalk

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2017
847
384
63
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Question:
What does Our Savior consider Idolatry?

From Psalms 44:
21. If we had forgotten the name of our God,
stretched out our hands to another god,
22. Would not God have discovered this,
God who knows the secrets of the heart?

This is what Catholics do when they celebrate their Eucharist.

 

Truth

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2017
1,737
1,797
113
71
AZ, Quartzsite
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why is pascha found only in the KJV?
We call it a liturgical calendar.

When a people observe a holiday under a specific title, then they as a people will insert it into whatever book they want. mans insertion! In the old testament God said you shall not add to or diminish from my Word! so if then we take or add one word, we no longer have Gods Word! we know have mans word! so if in the New Testament, we take or add to the Words of Jesus then we no longer have Jesus's word, we have the words of man!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Job

Truth

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2017
1,737
1,797
113
71
AZ, Quartzsite
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Soooo, YOUR problem is the the words "Christmas" and "Easter" are not in Scripture so they shouldn't be recognized?
I hate to have to be the one to tell you this - but Incarnation isn't in the Bible either, yet it is a core belief of Christianity. "Trinity" isn't in Scripture, yet it is THE core doctrine of Christianity.

You know what else isn't in Scripture?? The list of Books that make up the Bible.
Yup - the Canon of Scripture is a Tradition of the Catholic Church.

Why do YOU adhere to it?

Soooo you are saying that the Catholic Church is responsible, for the word of God, and the cannon of Scripture is Just a Tradition, Of the catholic Church!! Where did the Scriptures Come From???
 
  • Like
Reactions: KBCid

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Soooo you are saying that the Catholic Church is responsible, for the word of God, and the cannon of Scripture is Just a Tradition, Of the catholic Church!! Where did the Scriptures Come From???
No - that's NOT what I said.

GOD is the Author of Scripture. GOD gave His Church complete earthly Authority - that WHATEVER it ordained on earth would also be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:18, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

The Canon of what is considered "Scripture" was revealed to His Church by the Holy Spirit.
THIS is the Sacred Tradition that was revealed to the Catholic Church - not Protestantism.

Sooooo - why would YOU or any other Protestant adhere to the Canon of Scripture that was declared by an "evil" organization like the Catholic Church??

PS - in 15 years of online debating - not ONE Protestant has ever been able to answer this question.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Question:
What does Our Savior consider Idolatry?

From Psalms 44:
21. If we had forgotten the name of our God,
stretched out our hands to another god,
22. Would not God have discovered this,
God who knows the secrets of the heart?

This is what Catholics do when they celebrate their Eucharist.
Sooooo, worshiping Christ is idolatry??
Since when??
 

tabletalk

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2017
847
384
63
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
so, you are qualified to judge every Catholic heart now, ok.

No. Thanks for the correction. But, the Catholic Church teaches Transubstantiation, Real Presence, so the members should believe what their church teaches. Many do not, I have heard.
 

Truth

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2017
1,737
1,797
113
71
AZ, Quartzsite
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No - that's NOT what I said.

GOD is the Author of Scripture. GOD gave His Church complete earthly Authority - that WHATEVER it ordained on earth would also be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:18, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

The Canon of what is considered "Scripture" was revealed to His Church by the Holy Spirit.
THIS is the Sacred Tradition that was revealed to the Catholic Church - not Protestantism.

Sooooo - why would YOU or any other Protestant adhere to the Canon of Scripture that was declared by an "evil" organization like the Catholic Church??

PS - in 15 years of online debating - not ONE Protestant has ever been able to answer this question.

I adhere to it because I Believe that the Book I read! Is Gods Word! And if you want to claim that the Catholic Church is the soul Authority for its Canonization, You go right ahead. God through Moses gave the world His word, and by the Holy Spirit, the Apostles wrote the Gospels, as also Paul wrote His Epistles. I think they were all Jews lead by the Spirit, and inspired by God to write them.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Ever notice there's only 1 denomination that opposes these types of threads?
imo that is an unfair characterization, like saying "the religion of peace killed some people."
even if i agree with you that it is a common perception, it is like saying that no Catholic has any qualms about praying to Mary or whatever, when that is likely not true. Protestants have plenty of their own idols anyway, imo; who here does not need money to survive?
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I adhere to it because I Believe that the Book I read! Is Gods Word! And if you want to claim that the Catholic Church is the soul Authority for its Canonization, You go right ahead. God through Moses gave the world His word, and by the Holy Spirit, the Apostles wrote the Gospels, as also Paul wrote His Epistles. I think they were all Jews lead by the Spirit, and inspired by God to write them.
And there you go again being dishonest.
Not only did I NOT say that the Catholic Church was the SOLE Authority for the Canonization of Scripture - I stated that the Holy Spirit revealed the Canon to the Church - and the Church declared it.

So, again I ask you: Why would you adhere to a canon of Scripture that was declared by an "evil" entity like the Catholic Church??
And IF you accept what this "evil" entity declared as Scripture - why don't you believe everything it teaches?
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No. Thanks for the correction. But, the Catholic Church teaches Transubstantiation, Real Presence, so the members should believe what their church teaches. Many do not, I have heard.
And they would be called dissidents or outright Protestants - but not faithful Catholics.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
in my experience Catholics are as varied as any other group of people, yeh.
Between the faithful and the dissidents, yes.
But, that's the case in EVERY Protestant sect as well.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ever notice there's only 1 denomination that opposes these types of threads?
Ever notice how many moronic lies are told about the Catholic Church on this forum?
 

epostle1

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2012
3,326
507
113
72
Essex
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The Canon of Scripture itself is an example of developing doctrine. The New Testament never informs us which books comprise itself, and its Canon (final list of books) took about 360 years to reach its final form (at the Council of Carthage in 397). For instance, the books of Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, Jude, and Revelation were not widely accepted by the Church until 350 A.D.!

And books such as Barnabas and 1 and 2 Clement were considered Scripture by many at the same time (for example, the manuscripts Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Alexandrinus). Of the 27 New Testament books, 14 were not mentioned at all until around 200 A.D., including Acts, 2 Corinthians, Galatians and Colossians.

On what grounds, then, can we receive the Canon today except on the authority of the Church in the 5th century? These facts cause insuperable problems for Protestantism and its guiding principle of “Scripture Alone,” but are not a difficulty in the least for Catholics, who believe in Tradition, Church Authority, and development – all crucial elements in the very human process of selection of the biblical Canon.

It is plain silly (not to mention insufferably arrogant) to assert, as did Luther and especially Calvin, that the knowledge of what books constitute Scripture is attained simply by an intuitive and subjective inkling within each Spirit-filled person. If the early Church had such a difficult time determining what was and was not Scripture, how could Calvin 15 centuries later claim that it was altogether simple for him and every other sincere Christian?!
Development of Doctrine: A Corruption of Biblical Teaching?
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
If the early Church had such a difficult time determining what was and was not Scripture,
being as how the wolves had assumed control at that point
how could Calvin 15 centuries later claim that it was altogether simple for him and every other sincere Christian?!
obviously because he found the objective truth, eh?
so how you likin' Objective Truth now? When you do not get to be the arbiter of it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: KBCid

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
being as how the wolves had assumed control at that point
obviously because he found the objective truth, eh?
Soooo, Jesus was a liar and the gates of Hell DID prevail against His Church (Matt. 16:18)??
so how you likin' Objective Truth now? When you do not get to be the arbiter of it?
No - GOD is.
Jesus said the gates of Hell would NOT prevail against His Church - but you and Calvin didn't believe Him.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Soooo, Jesus was a liar and the gates of Hell DID prevail against His Church (Matt. 16:18)??

No - GOD is.
Jesus said the gates of Hell would NOT prevail against His Church - but you and Calvin didn't believe Him.
we do not define Church the same way, BoL, your church has laws that must be followed in order to be considered a member, after certain initiation rites are performed, and people are excluded based upon other peoples' judgements. Your "church" is seen, and comes by observation; my Church is built of Living Stones, and you do not get to define them, and neither do i, for Christians believe that God judges the heart, not the Catholic church.

So imo what you are doing is verifying that you must be the arbiter of this "objective truth," and i must agree with you, because you know what God means, while i am incapable of hearing God without your help; Jesus is a distant afterthought in this dogma.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Butterfly

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
we do not define Church the same way, BoL, your church has laws that must be followed in order to be considered a member, after certain initiation rites are performed, and people are excluded based upon other peoples' judgements. Your "church" is seen, and comes by observation; my Church is built of Living Stones, and you do not get to define them, and neither do i, for Christians believe that God judges the heart, not the Catholic church.

So imo what you are doing is verifying that you must be the arbiter of this "objective truth," and i must agree with you, because you know what God means, while i am incapable of hearing God without your help; Jesus is a distant afterthought in this dogma.
I don't define "Church" - the Word of God does:

- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6). Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31,
Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).


That is Christ's Church according to Scripture.