Are Adam and Eve.....in HEAVEN??????????????????????

[ScottA]

Phew! Now you just might be a Christian AFTER all!
Then I will have to apologize! (LEER!)
It's were you choose to put the COMMA, Scott!
You either ignore Jesus and put the comma after "Truly I TELL you..."
Or you understand what Jesus said and put it AFTER "Today"~
TRULY I TELL YOU TODAY (I TELL YOU RIGHT HERE AND NOW!), you will be with me in paradise!

Interesting.

I may have told you this before, but I would suggest that the explanation is not where you place the comma, but rather what perspective you consider: God's perspective...or the world's.

If you take on the perspective of the world, you have to try to make everything fit into a timeline.

But if you take on the perspective of God, then time is of the world, and His kingdom is not of the world.

So, then, Jesus speaking to the thief of the kingdom of heaven, would have referred to "Today" as the day they would enter into the kingdom...which happens to be the same day they would be leaving the world. But where was Christ going? He was going to the Father...which means He was coming into His glory and fully One with God the Father, whom exists outside of time, and whom is omnipresent. Thus, He could move through walls and locked doors and be in paradise...as well as be in the grave. In other words, unlike us mere earth-bound humanoids, He could be on the clock of world time and history, as well as off the clock...forever more.

That is what Jesus meant when He said, "My words are spirit", and what Paul meant when he say, we must "rightly divide the word of truth" - because it not only speaks of the times of the world, but also of eternity.

Paul, then, goes on to speak of dying, being crucified, and being raised with Christ - in past tense....which is not a matter of a comma, but a matter of rightly dividing the word of truth into it's proper perspective, whether it be of God, or of the world.

And then...everything...unfolds differently than once believed.

 

[theQuestion]

Interesting.

I may have told you this before, but I would suggest that the explanation is not where you place the comma, but rather what perspective you consider: God's perspective...or the world's.

If you take on the perspective of the world, you have to try to make everything fit into a timeline.

But if you take on the perspective of God, then time is of the world, and His kingdom is not of the world.

So, then, Jesus speaking to the thief of the kingdom of heaven, would have referred to "Today" as the day they would enter into the kingdom...which happens to be the same day they would be leaving the world. But where was Christ going? He was going to the Father...which means He was coming into His glory and fully One with God the Father, whom exists outside of time, and whom is omnipresent. Thus, He could move through walls and locked doors and be in paradise...as well as be in the grave. In other words, unlike us mere earth-bound humanoids, He could be on the clock of world time and history, as well as off the clock...forever more.

That is what Jesus meant when He said, "My words are spirit", and what Paul meant when he say, we must "rightly divide the word of truth" - because it not only speaks of the times of the world, but also of eternity.

Paul, then, goes on to speak of dying, being crucified, and being raised with Christ - in past tense....which is not a matter of a comma, but a matter of rightly dividing the word of truth into it's proper perspective, whether it be of God, or of the world.

And then...everything...unfolds differently than once believed.

Nope! That's absurd to apply such ridiculous meaning to Jesus' words.
They we both dying, and the thief will be resurrected by Jesus at Judgment Day.
Jesus 3 days later.
Today did NOT mean 2 THOUSAND YEARS LATER, no matter HOW fancy you get in explanation.

 

[ScottA]

Nope! That's absurd to apply such ridiculous meaning to Jesus' words.
They we both dying, and the thief will be resurrected by Jesus at Judgment Day.
Jesus 3 days later.
Today did NOT mean 2 THOUSAND YEARS LATER, no matter HOW fancy you get in explanation.

Okay, preview's over. See you on the other side when you are finished. I was finished when Christ said "It is finished." How absurd.

 

[Stranger]

They ALWAYS get upset when shown what they have swallowed REALLY means!

More misrepresentation. Adam and Eve did die. Adam and Eve were however saved. They lived out their saved lives here on earth, the body dying daily until it went back to the ground. They then went to paradise to be with God.

So also with the thief on the cross. Jesus said 'today' the thief would be with Him in paradise. And so He was, as both Jesus and the thief went to paradise. Both their bodies died, but they, their spirit and soul went to paradise.

You fail to understand 'death'. Death is not annihilation. It is separation. Physical death is separation between the body and the soul/spirit. Spiritual death is separation between the body/soul/spirit from God. Thus nothing is annihilated. It is simply separated. All of those who are cast into the lake of fire will live forever in the lake of fire. But they are dead. Separated from God.

Thus the statement from Christ, (Luke 9:60), "Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead:...". The dead here are those who are physically alive but dead to God.

Stranger

 

[theQuestion]

Okay, preview's over. See you on the other side when you are finished. I was finished when Christ said "It is finished." How absurd.

Sorry if I offended you; I'm at that age where I say what's true not caring if it upsets people!
I HOPE you're not finished! (Leer)

 

[theQuestion]

The Latest Scam of Churchianity; Death is just a separation.
Their view is a separation from intelligence...

...."Seperated"! heh

 

[ScottA]

Sorry if I offended you; I'm at that age where I say what's true not caring if it upsets people!
I HOPE you're not finished! (Leer)

You didn't offend me.

It is just that I have been speaking of the kingdom side of all things, breaking from tradition and the common beliefs of those who are unaware, and explaining what otherwise will only be clear in the end. When that time of transition and transformation comes, every eye will see. But the mystery of God that He declared to His servants the prophets...is now available as never before.

But I don't need an argument.

 

[jimd]

You didn't offend me.

It is just that I have been speaking of the kingdom side of all things, breaking from tradition and the common beliefs of those who are unaware, and explaining what otherwise will only be clear in the end. When that time of transition and transformation comes, every eye will see. But the mystery of God that He declared to His servants the prophets...is now available as never before.

But I don't need an argument.

When considered in the light of Hebrews 3&4 your suggestion provides food for thought.

 

[theQuestion]

You didn't offend me.

It is just that I have been speaking of the kingdom side of all things, breaking from tradition and the common beliefs of those who are unaware, and explaining what otherwise will only be clear in the end. When that time of transition and transformation comes, every eye will see. But the mystery of God that He declared to His servants the prophets...is now available as never before.

But I don't need an argument.

Then you know what the Kingdom is, unlike CHURCHianity?

 

[jimd]

Interesting.

I may have told you this before, but I would suggest that the explanation is not where you place the comma, but rather what perspective you consider: God's perspective...or the world's.

If you take on the perspective of the world, you have to try to make everything fit into a timeline.

But if you take on the perspective of God, then time is of the world, and His kingdom is not of the world.

So, then, Jesus speaking to the thief of the kingdom of heaven, would have referred to "Today" as the day they would enter into the kingdom...which happens to be the same day they would be leaving the world. But where was Christ going? He was going to the Father...which means He was coming into His glory and fully One with God the Father, whom exists outside of time, and whom is omnipresent. Thus, He could move through walls and locked doors and be in paradise...as well as be in the grave. In other words, unlike us mere earth-bound humanoids, He could be on the clock of world time and history, as well as off the clock...forever more.

That is what Jesus meant when He said, "My words are spirit", and what Paul meant when he say, we must "rightly divide the word of truth" - because it not only speaks of the times of the world, but also of eternity.

Paul, then, goes on to speak of dying, being crucified, and being raised with Christ - in past tense....which is not a matter of a comma, but a matter of rightly dividing the word of truth into it's proper perspective, whether it be of God, or of the world.

And then...everything...unfolds differently than once believed.

Interesting.

I may have told you this before, but I would suggest that the explanation is not where you place the comma, but rather what perspective you consider: God's perspective...or the world's.

If you take on the perspective of the world, you have to try to make everything fit into a timeline.

But if you take on the perspective of God, then time is of the world, and His kingdom is not of the world.

So, then, Jesus speaking to the thief of the kingdom of heaven, would have referred to "Today" as the day they would enter into the kingdom...which happens to be the same day they would be leaving the world. But where was Christ going? He was going to the Father...which means He was coming into His glory and fully One with God the Father, whom exists outside of time, and whom is omnipresent. Thus, He could move through walls and locked doors and be in paradise...as well as be in the grave. In other words, unlike us mere earth-bound humanoids, He could be on the clock of world time and history, as well as off the clock...forever more.

That is what Jesus meant when He said, "My words are spirit", and what Paul meant when he say, we must "rightly divide the word of truth" - because it not only speaks of the times of the world, but also of eternity.

Paul, then, goes on to speak of dying, being crucified, and being raised with Christ - in past tense....which is not a matter of a comma, but a matter of rightly dividing the word of truth into it's proper perspective, whether it be of God, or of the world.

And then...everything...unfolds differently than once believed.

Sorry but I think I quoted the wrong post in post #68 I meant to reply to this one.

When considered in the light of Hebrews 3&4 your suggestion provides food for thought.

 

[ScottA]

Then you know what the Kingdom is, unlike CHURCHianity?

I do. And since you bring it up...I have a love/hate relationship with the church, for it is a gathering of God's children, but rarely seeks Him first, except in lip service.

 

[ScottA]

Sorry but I think I quoted the wrong post in post #68 I meant to reply to this one.

When considered in the light of Hebrews 3&4 your suggestion provides food for thought.

If and when we are becoming more like Christ, meaning timeless, then we will "see Him as He is", which is One with the Father, whom is spirit - and then time is just His story, written, and played out in what we would ironically call "real time", which it is not.

 

[theQuestion]

I do. And since you bring it up...I have a love/hate relationship with the church, for it is a gathering of God's children, but rarely seeks Him first, except in lip service.

Ironic: I have such with the WTBS, since it watered down the NWT, and has cheapened the meetings at the Kingdom Halls.....

 

[theQuestion]

So- what do YOU think the Kingdom is?

 

[ScottA]

Ironic: I have such with the WTBS, since it watered down the NWT, and has cheapened the meetings at the Kingdom Halls.....

What is WTBS and NWT?

 

[ScottA]

So- what do YOU think the Kingdom is?

The kingdom is the eternal spiritual realm of God.

 

[theQuestion]

What is WTBS and NWT?

Watchtower B&S, New World Translation.

 

[theQuestion]

The kingdom is the eternal spiritual realm of God.

No.

 

[ScottA]

No.

I have told you what I know. But, please, tell me what you think.

 

[theQuestion]

Why not stick to the actual meaning of the word?
A GOVERNMENT, with a King, Law, and Subjects!

Daniel 2:44- And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Daniel 7:13- I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before Him.
14- And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.