Church

[amadeus]

Apostolic means all the Apostles.

You really did not answer my question. Is it what you often have called dodging?

I don't know when the practice of drawing straws ceased, probably as the Infant Church matured. Just because it's biblical does not make it doctrinal, and the Church has the authority to change non-doctrinal practices. It's hardly practical for 300 bishops to draw straws.

Impractical? Drawing straws or lots is simply letting everyone know that the decision belongs to God alone. Whether it is only two or a thousand, what is impractical for God?

They did, they are called bishops. Would you like some of their names?

Jesus chose twelve but he had other disciples as we see when he sent out 70. The point of my question was why is the number twelve no longer significant as it was when Jesus chose that particular number of followers. It was no accident that he chose twelve any more than it was an accident that Jacob had twelve sons.

 

[amadeus]

Disbelief of something is a rejection of that idea.
You can play word games all you want but you'd still be wrong.

Your language or no conversation? No discussion? You do not really want to discuss, do you? You want to be the lecturing teacher with no questions allowed that would suggest you might be wrong. I know that all Catholics are not like that. Somewhere down the line you will understand better how Jesus taught and teaches and then ask God to help you to do the same.

 

[101G]

Apostolic means all the Apostles.

that statement is not true, not all apostle are of God, or sent by God. Revelation 2:2 "I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars"
Just because someone say that they are an apostle, do not make them an apostle of God. maybe that's the problem, following the wrong apostle .

Peace in Christ Jesus.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes...

And the persistent illustration really brings the definition life

i was struck by how the one is a counterfeit for the other, which at the same time ends up like revealing that it is the opposite, or it is for lack of the one that we practice the other. i was raised without self-esteem, so i took up narcissism, and i'm in this weird in-between state now, where i can go either way lol. But one cannot do both at the same time, i guess

and i have explored this before, but for whatever reason the link just struck me as a great explanation, better than i have seen before

 

[bbyrd009]

Apostolic teaching? With a history of one Pope [apostle?] rather than 12? What became of the other 11? Did the Catholic Church draw lots to appoint each new apostle as they did to replace Judas in Acts 1? When they lost the missing 11, why did they not replace them?

wow, good Q, A.

ha look what i did there, i made a joke. Oh look, a flower! (lol)

 

[bbyrd009]

I can quietly pray in tongues

yes, and we can also deceive ourselves in our convos with ourselves.
Prayer is recognized as being actually for the self, i think, at least by some sages?


btw i usually agree with about 90% of what you post, i'm not meaning to be snarky here, just turning your concept to light up a different side, i hope.

 

[bbyrd009]

and the Church has the authority to change non-doctrinal practices

cool, because that is me, that "Church" part. i have as much authority as the pope, just like you; i just don't have as many ppl who believe that. ty GCarlin

 

[ScottA]

that statement is not true, not all apostle are of God, or sent by God. Revelation 2:2 "I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars"
Just because someone say that they are an apostle, do not make them an apostle of God. maybe that's the problem, following the wrong apostle .

Peace in Christ Jesus.

Indeed. Not all are found doing what their Master has appointed them to do.

It is important to understand and even expect the folly of men. Men who were appointed to tell the truth of Christ added and took away according to their own understanding. This was the reason that Paul counselled that women (all who are the bride of Christ) should be silent in the church. That God alone would speak, whether by word, or by the Spirit. That same spirit that first told Peter that Jesus was the Christ, and upon Whom He would build His church.

Many who believe they are children of truth, are the children of folly, and will not see Christ until the final judgement. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[bbyrd009]

It's hardly practical for 300 bishops to draw straws.

oh horse puckey, it is exceedingly practical imo.

Besides which straws are drawn only for candidates, or concepts, which never number that high.

 

[bbyrd009]

They did, they are called bishops. Would you like some of their names?

ha no, but i wouldn't mind some of their mansions lol

 

[bbyrd009]

?

you break the forum software when you reply like this, ETW. Makes any reply to you even harder, and subsequent convo basically impossible

 

[101G]

Indeed. Not all are found doing what their Master has appointed them to do.

It is important to understand and even expect the folly of men. Men who were appointed to tell the truth of Christ added and took away according to their own understanding. This was the reason that Paul counselled that women (all who are the bride of Christ) should be silent in the church. That God alone would speak, whether by word, or by the Spirit. That same spirit that first told Peter that Jesus was the Christ, and upon Whom He would build His church.

Many who believe they are children of truth, are the children of folly, and will not see Christ until the final judgement. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

thanks for the post. I been reading your book, up to chapter 19 now very interesting, but the jury still out. so I'll wait to the end.....

peace in Christ JESUS

 

[bbyrd009]

Disbelief of something is a rejection of that idea.

gotta agree with A here, they really are different. You (one) can refrain from having any opinion at all on a matter, once they have realized this (changed their minds), anyway

 

[bbyrd009]

You can play word games all you want but you'd still be wrong.

(tens of thousands) divided by (33,000) = ?

 

[bbyrd009]

You really did not answer my question. Is it what you often have called dodging?


Impractical? Drawing straws or lots is simply letting everyone know that the decision belongs to God alone. Whether it is only two or a thousand, what is impractical for God?


Jesus chose twelve but he had other disciples as we see when he sent out 70. The point of my question was why is the number twelve no longer significant as it was when Jesus chose that particular number of followers. It was no accident that he chose twelve any more than it was an accident that Jacob had twelve sons.

nice, i guess it is 70 (72) and not 144 for a reason too, huh. Hmm. where are the other half, i wonder.
i am not being coy here, i have no idea

 

[Helen]

I also do not reject the trinity although I do not believe in it. To reject it would mean I absolutely see no possibility that I am wrong in my belief. It is a belief rather than knowledge.

Since I have been wrong in the past in some of my beliefs as I have grown in God, I have learned to simply set some things aside rather than throw them out completely.

Amen John
I totally agree...That is how I hold all things...I believe them...but I 'hold them loosely' because I 'could' just be wrong. I doubt it, but I could. That is wisdom.
So many people get angry and rude when told ...'No, you actually do not KNOW, because the time is not yet on the full revelation of all things...then, and then only will we understand the right and wrong of it.'
But, I am having to come to the acceptance that many people will never let go of what they believe and accept a 'deeper truth', because they so arrogantly assert that they are right 100%.
( which means they are totally closed to God working on their heart, and no longer have a teachable spirit before the lord. They are stunted....but they do not know it. )

 

[amadeus]

nice, i guess it is 70 (72) and not 144 for a reason too, huh. Hmm. where are the other half, i wonder.
i am not being coy here, i have no idea

Precisely my friend. I also could present some ideas of why certain numbers are used rather than other ones. Some people make long studies to determine why. I don't know for sure the reasons, but I am also quite sure that God has His reasons, even if He hasn't always shared them all with me or you. Even so I would be very cautious about accepting the reason which BOL provided, which was only a support for the idea that it originated with men rather than with God.

 

[bbyrd009]

This was the reason that Paul counselled that women (all who are the bride of Christ) should be silent in the church.

hmm, i got this differently; i'll have to review there i guess, ty. i guess first we gotta fix "church" there, to diff from Church, 1 Corinthians 14:34 Lexicon: The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says., and then obv someone speaks in/to congregations who is a member of the Church proper; do you feel no thoughful response is ever indicated? What if the preacher is in error, what then, in your opinion? ty

 

[bbyrd009]

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

i see plenty of that today wadr; tomorrow is "free beer." Aren't you the "Time" OP?

 

[amadeus]

Amen John
I totally agree...That is how I hold all things...I believe them...but I 'hold them loosely' because I 'could' just be wrong. I doubt it, but I could. That is wisdom.
So many people get angry and rude when told ...'No, you actually do not KNOW, because the time is not yet on the full revelation of all things...then, and then only will we understand the right and wrong of it.'
But, I am having to come to the acceptance that many people will never let go of what they believe , for a deeper truth, because they so arrogantly assert that they are right 100%.
( which means they are totally closed, and no longer have a teachable spirit and heart before the lord. Stunted....but they do not know it. )

Absolutely old friend. I am always returned to the writings of Solomon. God did give the man great wisdom and we should periodically familiarize ourselves with them and if possible apply them to ourselves. They do us carnal good as well as spiritual good especially when we seem to be getting too full of ourselves.