Did God Need Jesus' Sacrifice to Make You Acceptable to Him?

[VictoryinJesus]

bbyrd009, It has been a long time since I read it but wasn't it a brass serpent on a pole that would heal them from a poisons snake bite if they looked upon it? An antidote for the bite of a serpent. Then they took it and worshipped it? An typology of the Son of God raised for sin...later it was crushed. I will admit before I came here to this board all I saw was the cross...I was still stuck on death. I agree it is time to move passed death onto the resurrected Christ. (Glorified). But, do you realize every word that proceeds from God is pointing to the Son. Put Christ at the center of every verse..:and the word makes sense. Christ is the key that unlocks. It is not us. It is Him. The Lamb...I am sorry if you don't agree; it doesn't make it any less true. Paul handled serpents too. And their bite didn't harm Him. Another bold statement that "the gates of hell will not prevail against it" ...the body of Christ.

You said those in the wilderness didn't go in, even after they were healed. Because they didn't believe what God said: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[bbyrd009]

Ok, so you have no idea what it means.

no, i did not say that, you said that

Instead of making stuff up, you should just leave it alone.

aw, missing your minion again, huh. Ty for your time here then, your input has been valuable imo. Both sides of a matter should get a hearing

 

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd009, It has been a long time since I read it but wasn't it a brass serpent on a pole that would heal them from a poisons snake bite if they looked upon it? An antidote for the bite of a serpent. Then they took it and worshipped it? An typology of the Son of God raised for sin...later it was crushed. I will admit before I came here to this board all I saw was the cross...I was still stuck on death. I agree it is time to move passed death onto the resurrected Christ. (Glorified). But, do you realize every word that proceeds from God is pointing to the Son. Put Christ at the center of every verse..:and the word makes sense. Christ is the key that unlocks. It is not us. It is Him. The Lamb...I am sorry if you don't agree; it doesn't make it any less true.

? haven't found anything to disagree with yet

Paul handled serpents too. And their bite didn't harm Him.

well, i suggest reading that with different eyes, or at least i know of a church you can still go to where they take that literally, and they put their money right where their mouth is lol. They still die when they get bit tho i guess

Paul "shaking a snake into a fire" has...more useful interpretations, imo, let's put it that way

 

[Job]

no, i did not say that, you said that

Yes, I said it. Doesn't make it any less true.

 

[bbyrd009]

yes, Job, you are the winner, ok

Another bold statement that "the gates of hell will not prevail against it" ...the body of Christ.

ah, but aren't you the Body of Christ?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Paul "shaking a snake into a fire" has...more useful interpretations, imo, let's put it that way

yes, it is Spiritual. I don't handle real snakes.

 

[bbyrd009]

You said those in the wilderness didn't go in, even after they were healed. Because they didn't believe what God said

i would argue "because they did not follow," not bc they did not "believe." And as evidence i would offer that every time they were asked, they evinced that they "believed," and there are several passages where this happens, more than one. their beliefs got them out of Egypt, see, but they too apparently assumed that the Promised Land was like the next step, like most Christians have been sucked into believing today, right

 

[bbyrd009]

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

well, you can read "believeth" if you liketh, personally i know that "belief" has 5 definitions, and "faith" only has one; the one i note there where you read "belief."
John 3:16 Lexicon: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. extract
Strong's Greek: 4100. πιστεύω (pisteuó) -- to believe, entrust

and just ignore where Strong's has helped to corrupt the definition of "faith" there, if you would, as if "believe" doesn't have enough definitions already lol. Pistis is not "belief," at least until they or your pastor (or your coach, lol) get done with it

 

[bbyrd009]

yes, it is Spiritual. I don't handle real snakes.

ah, then i am not getting why Paul's snakebite being portrayed as a literal history is being invoked here i guess, sorry

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ah, then i am not getting why Paul's snakebite being portrayed as a literal history is being invoked here i guess, sorry

I am not really sure; other than like this pole raised in the wilderness: man can take a couple of out of context verses and turn a worship service into handling snakes rather than the focus being God.

 

[bbyrd009]

In plain english...what does that passage mean? What is the interpretation of that passage?

If you don't know, just say so.

Isaiah 53:5, But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,

 

[Helen]

ha no on the kundalini, i had to go ask google there. and what am i referring to is that Jesus is intentionally referring to Nehushtan here, right, but now go and ask 100 "Christians"--virtually all of whom will also evince a belief in the Bible as the Word, or as Holy, right--who Nehushtan even is.

So we have like a...like the same concept as those who rely on the Rule of Law scoffing at it, see. i guess i won't be able to make the point here without flossing a little, sorry, but see i don't scoff at the Rule of Law, bc being Anarchist i cannot afford to; when you got no DL and no plates, you just nail the exact speed limit out of self preservation if nothing else, see.

and similarly i am not anxious to be identified as a Christian, if Christian means "Good News! If you don't do exactly as i say, you're all going to hell!" yet i know who Nehushtan is, for the same reason basically.

Do you ever just answer "in a straight line"??

 

[Helen]

what am i referring to is that Jesus is intentionally referring to Nehushtan here, right, but now go and ask 100 "Christians"--virtually all of whom will also evince a belief in the Bible as the Word, or as Holy, right--who Nehushtan even is.

Okay Mark. I am glad @Miss Hepburn asked you the same questions I have asked in times past.
As neither of us actually "get" what we "think" you are trying to say.
Can I just ask if you are saying that "this"( below) is what you believe Nehushtan worship is...and you just say YES or NO.
Because although at one time I thought I understood what I thought you were saying..but these posts seem to not be what I thought you were saying!!

So..are you saying that some Christians believe and worship the Jesus who walked this earth as a man...( = Nehushtan worship) while those who can 'see' worship the living , GLORIFIED Lord?
Is that, in a nut shell, what you mean?
If not...I give up!! LOL

 

[Job]

So..are you saying that some Christians believe and worship the Jesus who walked this earth as a man...( = Nehushtan worship) while those who can 'see' worship the living , GLORIFIED Lord?
Is that, in a nut shell, what you mean?
If not...I give up!! LOL

He has no idea. He'll have to consult the Great and Mighty Google.

As he does with everything else...

 

[amadeus]

and imo Stranger and lots of other "fire and brimstone" types just project our anger onto God, the God reflected in the OT, iow.
It is widely assumed that God needed a sacrifice, see, when it is actually people that needed them, and many people still do today.
"Sin must be paid for with blood" is a characterization of human nature, not God.
"Vengeance is Mine" is mostly a mature adult's way of prohibiting an adolescent kid from attempting to engage in Righteous Retribution done from ignorance; and our love of the Charles Bronson-esque has hardly abated any, right, ppl are as bloodthirsty as ever.

@Miss Hepburn

I learned something through you that I only vaguely was understanding although the clarification came through bbyrd009 in the above cited post:

"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Psalm 51:17

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Do you ever just answer "in a straight line"??

That is hysterical...I think he is having fun tho.

 

[amadeus]

? haven't found anything to disagree with yet

well, i suggest reading that with different eyes, or at least i know of a church you can still go to where they take that literally, and they put their money right where their mouth is lol. They still die when they get bit tho i guess

Paul "shaking a snake into a fire" has...more useful interpretations, imo, let's put it that way

I met one of those snake handlers, an old man, here in Oklahoma about 25 years ago. A friend and myself had a long conversation with him. He agreed that his group misunderstood some things in the scriptures. But his last word on it was that he had been with snake handlers all of his long life, and he was never going to change what he did or where he attended "church". He was a nice guy and never got upset when we tried to point out the errors of the snake handlers. He may miss it on doctrine, but if charity/love have anything to do with it, his attitude was very good.

 

[Richard_oti]

a good point imo, personally i think the "aforetime" was more of a judicial device to address peoples' grievances about past sins done to them, as we can witness that many ppl seek Christ who have done terrible things in their past, and may not so easily leave them at the altar, so to speak, but being as i don't know there, i guess it is possible that some ppl can, so maybe.

I do see your point, and there may be more merit to it than I can currently see. For I can quote verses equally from both sides: receive mercy ; give mercy : give mercy ; receive mercy.

However the context, would seem to support the former.

but imo it is more pertinent to realize what happened to all but 2 (or 3, with Moses) of those, after their "salvation" experience @ Passover. A million+ ppl "found Jesus" and then went and perished in the Wilderness, right.

A clear and demonstrative example of the wide path vs. the one that few find. Which as you have brought forth, was because they did not follow.

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you ever just answer "in a straight line"??

lol. i used to, yes.

 

[bbyrd009]

So..are you saying that some Christians believe and worship the Jesus who walked this earth as a man...( = Nehushtan worship) while those who can 'see' worship the living , GLORIFIED Lord?
Is that, in a nut shell, what you mean?
If not...I give up!! LOL

the problem with me giving a yes or no answer here is that you are asking me to assume a place that is not proper for me to assume, see. I would then be defining who can see and who cannot, in this instance, and i would be including myself in that group, as well, see.

So loosely speaking, "yes," but i would characterize it as more like most or almost all new seekers are encouraged to worship Jesus as Nehushtan, or "believe and worship the Jesus who walked this earth as a man," yes, even though "believe" there is not really accurate i guess--i did it for years myself--while very few "established Christians" could even describe who Nehushtan is, despite Jesus having referred to Himself in the manner that He did. And imo this makes the statement better than i could anyway.

and there will be evidence of this, too, this Nehushtan worship; questions will be discouraged, posts with valid questions in them will be ignored, even contrasting statements made by Christ will be ignored, IRL or in posts, logic will dictate that a certain blindness...be present, since no logical explanation can be forthcoming; they will exhibit denial, iow. Or give some loopy answer, not that i can really talk much there, right.