Redemption ?

[bbyrd009]

The Immaculate Conception refers to MARY'S conception - not Jesus's.

I got the sense that someone was suggesting that.

me, too!

 

[EndTimeWine]

You're back-pedaling.
The Immaculate Conception refers to MARY'S conception - not Jesus's.

YOUR question was:
"Was Mary Immaculately conceived in her Mother's womb or when the Holy Spirit came upon her and the Power of the most High over shadowed her?"

,
No back- pedaling , has everything to do with being able to understand the new title some Catholics want to give her , the "Why" is important. It has to do with understanding the Dogma presented as the RCC presents it, in which, as it has been defined is incorrect, because it can NOT be supported by scripture. And Immaculate Conception does refer to Christ's conception as well as how Mary was instantly Immaculate conceived by the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit came upon her. Simply put,was it a clean spotless , conception? Conception takes place in the egg, Incarnation has do with the Holy Spirit seed being placed in that egg. When you can correctly understand "Immaculate Conception", then you will see why she is not Co-Redemptrix, and The Titles Redeemer and Saviour are reserved for Christ on every level.

 

[101G]

The Trinity is blasphemy? Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox accept the authoritive verdicts of the councils of Nicae, Ephesus and Chalcedon, all defining and clarifying the Trinity to refute heresies. Many anti-trinitarians have been ejected from this forum.

a majority don't make it right. understand, only a few travel the straight road..... :cool:

 

[EndTimeWine]

,
No back- pedaling , has everything to do with being able to understand the new title some Catholics want to give her , the "Why" is important. It has to do with understanding the Dogma presented as the RCC presents it, in which, as it has been defined is incorrect, because it can NOT be supported by scripture. And Immaculate Conception does refer to Christ's conception as well as how Mary was instantly Immaculate conceived by the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit came upon her. Simply put,was it a clean spotless , conception? Conception takes place in the egg, Incarnation has do with the Holy Spirit seed being placed in that egg. When you can correctly understand "Immaculate Conception", then you will see why she is not Co-Redemptrix, and The Titles Redeemer and Saviour are reserved for Christ on every level.

We will all become Immaculate through the Holy Spirit ( Those who are chosen, the Elect), spotlessly clean and without blemish. Mary is an example of what the Bride will be. And much of this will come through her magnifying soul, which gives us greater clarity and understanding of God our Saviour and Redeemer. I am not going to elaborate anymore, this is for a small chosen to learn and understand Rev.14. It is enough for you to teach of Christ and praise and glorify His name above all names and fallibility. If Yeshua (Jesus) is our devotion and dying last words in love, it is all good. God Bless!

 

[FHII]

Second, you have to set aside your hostility and prejudice before you can begin to understand anything about the biblical Mary.

Pardon me, but while I am hostile to false doctrine, I am not hostile to individuals or to denominations. Furthermore I don't have prejudice. I so not prejudge; I study and gather information and then make a judgment. When new information is made available to me I adjust accordingly. I would like to think everyone does this but I have my doubts.

We are talking about "the biblical Mary"?!?! I don't see ANYTHING about what we are discussing as the biblical Mary. Certain things about the biblical Mary are not in dispute. She gave birth to Jesus while she was a virgin. She was blessed among women. She was highly favored. These things we are discussing aren't biblical. I think you know that because we are also arguing about sola scriptura. If these things were in the Bible, sola scriptura would be a moot point.

Third, if your community forbids praying for one another, then you are in a cult and need to leave.

Come on Kepha... That is an evasive statement. My Church does believe in praying for one another. My point is that we don't go around calling ourselves co-redeemers or speak of our intersession at all. At least nowhere near as much as it is discussed with Mary. Now why is that?

Straw man fallacy. I made no such argument.

Check the first few posts in the thread. I never said you made such claims. The notion that since Mary gave Jesus his blood makes her a co-redeemer. It then developed into we are all co-redeemers. I said then we must have all given Jesus our blood to illustrate absurdity.

 

[EndTimeWine]

a majority don't make it right. understand, only a few travel the straight road..... :cool:

The Trinity is very easily expressed and verified by the simple utterance: Matthew 28:19
The Great Commission
…18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”…
The Trinity can no be denied, that is to deny the faith. The road you are traveling may be straight, but is also wide. Travel the straight and narrow path and enter by the narrow gate! God Bless!

 

[FHII]

me, too!

Glad I am not the only one! In any sense... The Catholic Church doesn't teach that Mary's mom was a virgin when she gave birth to Mary.

 

[101G]

My apologies. I left out a two letter word: "of". The Catholic Church does teach she was born sinless and free from original sin.

I said that it doesn't teach "she was born a virgin herself." Of course she was. We all are born virgins. What I meant to say is that the Catholic Church doesn't teach that she was born OF a virgin.

I got the sense that someone was suggesting that.

FHII, don't take this the wrong way, I know what you're saying, ok. I'm just really being a little technical on what you're speaking on.

NO human man is "BORN" of a virgin. maybe conceive in a virgin. but once penetrated that virginity is OVER with.

Peace in Christ Yeshua.

 

[101G]

The Trinity is very easily expressed and verified by the simple utterance: Matthew 28:19
The Great Commission
…18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”…
The Trinity can no be denied, that is to deny the faith. The road you are traveling may be straight, but is also wide. Travel the straight and narrow path and enter by the narrow gate! God Bless!

what is the Name of the Father?.

 

[EndTimeWine]

Glad I am not the only one! In any sense... The Catholic Church doesn't teach that Mary's mom was a virgin when she gave birth to Mary.

This is not complicated, follow what scripture says concerning Mary, that is all. Do not deny her because of controversy. Stand on scripture and you can not go wrong. I do not know what denomination you ascribe to but I can say with certainty the Protestant do not have right. They ignore all together any reflection or utterance concerning her. She must be included in the teaching of the faith because it is the beginning of Christianity the completion of Judaism . And in her , both covenants are joined.

 

[101G]

in her , both covenants are joined.

ERROR, Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah". no joining,

now what about the Father Personal Name?.

 

[EndTimeWine]

FHII, don't take this the wrong way, I know what you're saying, ok. I'm just really being a little technical on what you're speaking on.

NO human man is "BORN" of a virgin. maybe conceive in a virgin. but once penetrated that virginity is OVER with.

Peace in Christ Yeshua.

Ever Virgin Mary pertains to the Virginity of her soul. She is without blemish due to what Christ worked in her. It is not a sin to know your spouse in the holy matrimony of marriage hence, is what marriage between a man and woman is, under God. Joseph did not know Mary until after the birth of Jesus. This did not make her unholy, or take away from her being "BORN AGAIN" made a VIRGIN SOUL again! When God first made man his soul was pure and untainted. It is through sin that the light and VIRGINITY of the soul was changed. And our bodies became perishable. Rev. 14 .

 

[epostle1]

Pardon me, but while I am hostile to false doctrine, I am not hostile to individuals or to denominations. Furthermore I don't have prejudice. I so not prejudge; I study and gather information and then make a judgment. When new information is made available to me I adjust accordingly. I would like to think everyone does this but I have my doubts.

We are talking about "the biblical Mary"?!?! I don't see ANYTHING about what we are discussing as the biblical Mary. Certain things about the biblical Mary are not in dispute. She gave birth to Jesus while she was a virgin. She was blessed among women. She was highly favored. These things we are discussing aren't biblical. I think you know that because we are also arguing about sola scriptura. If these things were in the Bible, sola scriptura would be a moot point.
Everything we have been discussing about Mary is biblical, just not explicit enough for your personal tastes.

Come on Kepha... That is an evasive statement. My Church does believe in praying for one another. My point is that we don't go around calling ourselves co-redeemers or speak of our intersession at all. At least nowhere near as much as it is discussed with Mary. Now why is that?

Because non-Catholics like you are obsessed with a topic you know very little about. Every forum has miles of posts about Mary by anti-Catholics who don't have a clue. You are much too hostile to discover the truth of the matter, and making things up as often as you do will put you on my ignore list.

Check the first few posts in the thread. I never said you made such claims. The notion that since Mary gave Jesus his blood makes her a co-redeemer. It then developed into we are all co-redeemers. I said then we must have all given Jesus our blood to illustrate absurdity.

This is the third time you made a straw man fallacy. Not once did I say Mary gave Jesus his blood makes her a co-redeemer. You made that up. And it is not Catholic theology.

 

[101G]

Ever Virgin Mary pertains to the Virginity of her soul. She is without blemish due to what Christ worked in her. It is not a sin to know your spouse in the holy matrimony of marriage hence, is what marriage between a man and woman is, under God. Joseph did not know Mary until after the birth of Jesus. This did not make her unholy, or take away from her being "BORN AGAIN" made a VIRGIN SOUL again! When God first made man his soul was pure and untainted. It is through sin that the light and VIRGINITY of the soul was changed. And our bodies became perishable. Rev. 14 .

what are you rambling about?. never mind,

what about the Father Personal name to baptize in?... well.

 

[EndTimeWine]

ERROR, Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah". no joining,

now what about the Father Personal Name?.

No error the old covenant is joined to the new- in Christ it is completion. He makes all things new by joining and cleansing.

 

[EndTimeWine]

what are you rambling about?. never mind,

what about the Father Personal name to baptize in?... well.

He who sees the Son sees the Father and no one has seen the Father except the Son, and it is through Him the Father is revealed. What name are we Saved by? Who is God our Saviour, it is in the Son that we are saved. He is of God the Father and the Holy Spirit is the mutual Love between the two.

 

[101G]

No error the new covenant is joined to the new- in Christ it is completion. He makes all things new by joining and cleansing.

ERROR, Hebrews 8:7 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.Hebrews 8:8 "For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:Hebrews 8:9 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:Hebrews 8:11 "And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.Hebrews 8:12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

you can try again.

 

[101G]

He who sees the Son sees the Father and no one has seen the Father except the Son, and it is through Him the Father is revealed. What name are we Saved by? Who is God our Saviour, it is in the Son that we are saved. He is of God the Father and the Holy Spirit is the mutual Love between the two.

I know this, please for the Last time will you tell us the Name of the Father to baptize in. how hard is that? you said, "The Trinity is very easily expressed and verified by the simple utterance: Matthew 28:19 The Great Commission". ok, the Father name to baptize in please.

 

[EndTimeWine]

ERROR, Hebrews 8:7 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.Hebrews 8:8 "For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:Hebrews 8:9 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:Hebrews 8:11 "And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.Hebrews 8:12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

you can try again.

No one said he did NOT find fault with them:Matthew 5:17
The Fulfillment of the Law
16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. 17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…

 

[EndTimeWine]

I know this, please for the Last time will you tell us the Name of the Father to baptize in. how hard is that? you said, "The Trinity is very easily expressed and verified by the simple utterance: Matthew 28:19 The Great Commission". ok, the Father name to baptize in please.

Wow, are you a JW?