Can anybody really tell what time it is?

[amadeus]

yet Judas' confession i can read; where is Peter's? Quote me Peter's, if you can! I tell you that Judas was "lost" only bc he killed himself, and was no longer alive, which had to occur so that the behavior could be condemned. Judas is "i know better than you; my religion is better than yours," or any other expression of one who has Assumed the Position (Holy of Holies) imo, or rather, failed to relinquish it

Judas' problem brings with it the thought that suicide is an the unforgivable sin. I do not agree with that idea myself, for what was actually in a person's heart at the time of the suicide matters very much to God. God is the only one who really knows what was in there.

 

[amadeus]

that place being martyrdom, also, only of a different stripe, right?

Thot you were annihilationist? What place are you referring to?

The place prepared is for the believer with Lord. The unbeliever is dead and needs not place. The backslider from true believer remains open for me.

 

[bbyrd009]

Can we really say yet.. " The Prince of this world comes and find no place in me?" I don't think so! I would find that hard to believe that you are beyond any temptation.

i def would not say that. my biggest temptation now seems to be of pride, like @Job , i guess i did that pridefully.

 

[bbyrd009]

Moses. He did not make it into the Promised Land

another great example, no confession can be read right? At least that i remember

 

[amadeus]

as long as you can find it today, certainly. For Christ did not change the path, He only illuminated it, right. Worshipping Jesus for dying for your sins will not get you on the path at all, see, that is what Judas did.

"This is Our Guy, i'm convinced, now time to make Him into Our Jewish Image. Logically, He will do what He has done in the past, that i know He can do, if i can just get Him off this Hippy kick. Hey, i know how."

I have no disagreements with you on such issues. I am working a lot of details. Even though on some things I may lean a certain way, I truly do strive to remain pliable. The One who forms the clay into something worthwhile needs us to be pliable.

 

[bbyrd009]

Actually this problem with Judas could provide another clue into the difference between the Church and the Bride. Judas definitely would have missed being in the Bride of Christ, but may still be found within the Church.

Indeed and I do believe that some of those believers will be in the Church while missing the Bride.

i'd have to think on that, right now it still strikes me as mixing metaphors

 

[amadeus]

you should already be there, imo, shouldn't you? You are not brand new, after all. You already have no place in this world, right

This is the truth. For me to seriously backslide, if it were possible, would leave me in likely the worst of possible hells. Gives me some thought about satan and the devil...LOL

 

[bbyrd009]

Judas' problem brings with it the thought that suicide is an the unforgivable sin. I do not agree with that idea myself, for what was actually in a person's heart at the time of the suicide matters very much to God. God is the only one who really knows what was in there.

yes. So Judas was def "lost" to the world, but that he is also left literally hanging is realized in the interp of the "suicide" passage imo

 

[amadeus]

You make it sound easy...True, we already have no place in the world...trouble is, unless you are a dead man walking, and really DEAD, with no breath...then the world still has a place in US!! If not, we would be perfect in this flesh...
Can we really say yet.. " The Prince of this world comes and find no place in me?" I don't think so! I would find that hard to believe that you are beyond any temptation. While the Prince of this world is still free, we will always have to overcome.
My only answer is " Lord, I in myself can't, You can"...and I endeavour to dwell in The Secret Place and abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
He is my refuge and strength...that is the ONLY way I know how to "do the works of God." I know no other way of victory.

As Jesus put it [John 17], we are still IN the world, but we are no long OF the world. The IN the world part is why we have this double minded trouble. I believe that when Jesus said that he had overcome the world, [even though the cross was still before him] that he was no longer tempted. He had to suffer pain and he had to die, but after Gethsemene [Matt 26:39], he was no longer tempted to look for some way that was less painful. If we could get to such a place while still in this veil of flesh...? I won't get into that as a possibility here.

 

[Helen]

Judas' problem brings with it the thought that suicide is an the unforgivable sin. I do not agree with that idea myself, for what was actually in a person's heart at the time of the suicide matters very much to God. God is the only one who really knows what was in there.

Well said.. AMEN!!
Totally agree ... I have a friend who tried twice..someone we would call a "good solid Christian."

It always comes back to the heart.

 

[amadeus]

i def would not say that. my biggest temptation now seems to be of pride, like @Job , i guess i did that pridefully.

The last and probably the worst when it comes to it. When we finally are thinking we are clean, we open our mouth and say it to someone with just even a touch of "look at me now" showing.

 

[amadeus]

another great example, no confession can be read right? At least that i remember

No, no confession by Moses, at least none written down for us to read.

One problem that some people have is when they don't understand something in the scripture, they will sometimes grab hold of a handy explanation and before long it become "gospel" to them. Lots of condemnation of others comes from things like this. We see a person doing something that for us would probably be sin and we conclude that it is sin for them and quickly open our mouths in rebuke.

 

[amadeus]

i'd have to think on that, right now it still strikes me as mixing metaphors

Well I have known some people for years who believe strongly in the Bride coming out of the Church. While I also believe it, I remain very open to other explanations, because some parts do not fit when my mind seems to think that they should.

 

[amadeus]

Well said.. AMEN!!
Totally agree ... I have a friend who tried twice..someone we would call a "good solid Christian."

It always comes back to the heart.

I knew one who did commit suicide successfully, but while he was suffocating with his head sealed in a contrived plastic bag, he had time to talk to God. How long can a person live without oxygen? How long does it take to make things right with God?

 

[Helen]

Well I have known some people for years who believe strongly in the Bride coming out of the Church. While I also believe it, I remain very open to other explanations, because some parts do not fit when my mind seems to think that they should.

The thing is...that used to bother me...until a dear old man explained to me that NO Typing in scripture ever is prefect...and all types finally break down.
I was much younger then, and spent hours checking all the types and shadows of scripture and found it was so.
Makes sense really...there is only one perfect...and He is not a 'type of' He is the True.

 

[amadeus]

The thing is...that used to bother me...until a dear old man explained to me that NO Typing in scripture ever is prefect...and all types finally break down.
I was much younger then, and spent hours checking all the types and shadows of scripture and found it was so.
Makes sense really...there is only one perfect...and He is not a 'type of' He is the True.

Absolutely! I also do not let myself get hung up because I cannot see something I believe as clearly as I would like or even at all. When it comes down to it, we do still live for God by faith rather than by knowledge of all the details.

 

[ScottA]

The thing is...that used to bother me...until a dear old man explained to me that NO Typing in scripture ever is prefect...and all types finally break down.
I was much younger then, and spent hours checking all the types and shadows of scripture and found it was so.
Makes sense really...there is only one perfect...and He is not a 'type of' He is the True.

Indeed. In spite of all that is written and revealed by manifest revelation from God: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

John 21:25
And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

 

[bbyrd009]

I sure do not see Judas sitting up front next to Abraham and King David...but I do expect him to be there...if only in the back 40.

ya, he's prolly only partially forgiven i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

I have no disagreements with you on such issues. I am working a lot of details. Even though on some things I may lean a certain way, I truly do strive to remain pliable. The One who forms the clay into something worthwhile needs us to be pliable.

a great thing to remember when one is confronted with an "A or notA?" situation imo lol, you'll find out just how pliable you are, right?

But don't get all down on yourself when/if you fail this the first couple times imo, bc the third rail is electric, ok, it confronts every ego in the room, see, Spongebob's Good News--"you can have it"--kindles a bonfire in his friend the little green guy's heart, right, any defense Spongebob gives him is very obviously going to be received How?

 

[Armadillo]

lol, to partially forgiven