Can anybody really tell what time it is?

[ScottA]

Scott, can you define what "kainos" means? Does it mean, "brand new" or "refurbished like new"? Please note that this question is not about "time".

It wouldn't matter...

Because it is not defined in this context by the understanding of men, but rather by what is eluded to unto men within the limited realm of humanity from God. In other words, if Picasso used crayons to convey his impression...it is both crayon and Picasso, but elementary.

Therefore, we either press on to communicating in the spirit, or remain elementary. Thus, Christ said: "My words are spirit."

Rise, let us be going!

 

[Jay Ross]

Thanks @ScottA, what you are really saying is that your dribble is not defined in the context by the understanding of men but by a higher entity who you claim is "God" so that what you are admitting is that you do not know how to communicate with other fellow human beings. No wonder we are having trouble with your posts. The source of your utterances is then very questionable.

 

[Jay Ross]

Scott, can you define what "kainos" means? Does it mean, "brand new" or "refurbished like new"? Please note that this question is not about "time".

@ScottA the question can still be answered by you if you provide what "kainos" means in words that convey understanding to other fellow human beings.

 

[bbyrd009]

What does darkness have to do with light? That is schizophrenia. Iron mixed with clay crumbles.

imo mixing metaphors, that is for building a temple, not for "be in the world, but not of it" i guess. You don't cloister iow, for a reason; you separate, and stay separate, right there in them i guess

That is schizophrenia. Iron mixed with clay crumbles.

good advice, for a certain perspective though, i agree

 

[ScottA]

Thanks @ScottA, what you are really saying is that your dribble is not defined in the context by the understanding of men but by a higher entity who you claim is "God" so that what you are admitting is that you do not know how to communicate with other fellow human beings. No wonder we are having trouble with your posts. The source of your utterances is then very questionable.

Two can play at this. How fun!

You should really get started with the whole renewing of your mind thing. You're way too emotional to continue as you are.

 

[ScottA]

@ScottA the question can still be answered by you if you provide what "kainos" means in words that convey understanding to other fellow human beings.

The meaning is "new" in the way of being "different", "each after its own kind", as it has been since the beginning.

 

[amadeus]

we are manifest into time, however, and the fact that God exists outside of time is not a call for us to attempt to dwell there too, imo.

But, if that is where the Lord is, should we not desire to be there also? Should we not do what we can to be there?

"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again,and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" John 14:3

 

[bbyrd009]

But, if that is where the Lord is, should we not desire to be there also? Should we not do what we can to be there?

if you define God as being only there, yes, but imo this is not true, right; God is in time too

 

[amadeus]

if you define God as being only there, yes, but imo this is not true, right; God is in time too

God is where He is, whatever that means. We may agree that the scriptures speak of Him being effectively everywhere, but there are differences which probably we cannot really understand... unless He has given us a special vision on that.

Since God is everywhere, what do we say is the difference between a person who believes in God and one who does not? What is it that Jesus prays for with these words?

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Seemingly he had already excluded Judas Iscariot from the scope of that prayer:

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12

Does not @ScottA present an explanation that may explain this difference?

You say God is time and I agree that He is here among us, but we are not with Him unless and if we are in Christ. Judas was with Jesus as they all walked together in the flesh, but he was never in Christ and rejected the possibility. The remaining eleven did not reject the possibility. They messed up because they did not understand, but their hearts remained open to God so the place He had prepared for them remained open to them. The choice was theirs as it had also been for Judas.

I really don't understand what all of this means, but an inkling of an explanation is provided here: What did Jesus say about believers?

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

"They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." John 17:16

Notice the use Jesus made of IN the world versus OF the world. Eventually we would also have a place NOT IN this world. Does he not speak of it here?

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know." John 14:2-4

Maybe @ScottA can now help us connect some of the dots with regard to time.

 

[bbyrd009]

Seemingly he had already excluded Judas Iscariot from the scope of that prayer:

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12

i suggest that perceptions are being manipulated there, too, and Judas must be symbolically described as lost in the passage to condemn the behavior, which is no different from someone bowing to the current Authority that proclaims Zionism or even Rapture, in which Christ assuming an earthly crown is implied. Judas also confessed (unto salvation, right), even if he did not rebound per se, and he obv demonstrated remorse, so i would not be too quick to condemn Judas, myself anyway

Many believers are channelling Judas today, when it can be realized what Judas betrayed, bc Judas surely did not expect the authorities to be able to even touch Jesus, except by His leave, which was not anticipated, right. Judas might be thus characterized as "someone who expected Jesus to take authority by force."

 

[Helen]

bc Judas surely did not expect the authorities to be able to even touch Jesus, except by His leave, which was not anticipated, right

I like that thought very much...I had NEVER ever thought of that!
Could well be true. Yet if he didn't really believe that they could take Jesus , why did he take back the 30 bits of silver to them...

Good thought...something within me has always felt sorry for Judas.
Someone had to do it!

 

[bbyrd009]

I like that thought very much...I had NEVER ever thought of that!
Could well be true. Yet if he didn't really believe that they could take Jesus , why did he take back the 30 bits of silver to them...

Good thought...something within me has always felt sorry for Judas.
Someone had to do it!

yes. Better to consider him lost, though, as he reps those mentioned; can they be saved? i sure hope so, i was one too

 

[Helen]

yes. Better to consider him lost, though, as he reps those mentioned; can they be saved? i sure hope so, i was one too

I sure do not see Judas sitting up front next to Abraham and King David...but I do expect him to be there...if only in the back 40.

 

[bbyrd009]

Judas was with Jesus as they all walked together in the flesh, but he was never in Christ and rejected the possibility.

imo he rejected the possibility of his works, and sought to worship Jesus as king, rather than follow Christ, but then this also describes most church believers imo, who also bow to kings

 

[bbyrd009]

The remaining eleven did not reject the possibility. They messed up because they did not understand, but their hearts remained open to God so the place He had prepared for them remained open to them. The choice was theirs as it had also been for Judas.

I sure do not see Judas sitting up front next to Abraham and King David...but I do expect him to be there...if only in the back 40.

yet Judas' confession i can read; where is Peter's? Quote me Peter's, if you can! I tell you that Judas was "lost" only bc he killed himself, and was no longer alive, which had to occur so that the behavior could be condemned. Judas is "i know better than you; my religion is better than yours," or any other expression of one who has Assumed the Position (Holy of Holies) imo, or rather, failed to relinquish it

 

[bbyrd009]

They messed up because they did not understand, but their hearts remained open to God so the place He had prepared for them remained open to them.

that place being martyrdom, also, only of a different stripe, right?

Thot you were annihilationist? What place are you referring to?

 

[bbyrd009]

Eventually we would also have a place NOT IN this world. Does he not speak of it here?

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know." John 14:2-4

as long as you can find it today, certainly. For Christ did not change the path, He only illuminated it, right. Worshipping Jesus for dying for your sins will not get you on the path at all, see, that is what Judas did.

"This is Our Guy, i'm convinced, now time to make Him into Our Jewish Image. Logically, He will do what He has done in the past, that i know He can do, if i can just get Him off this Hippy kick. Hey, i know how."

 

[bbyrd009]

Eventually we would also have a place NOT IN this world.

you should already be there, imo, shouldn't you? You are not brand new, after all. You already have no place in this world, right

 

[Helen]

you should already be there, imo, shouldn't you? You are not brand new, after all. You already have no place in this world, right

You make it sound easy...True, we already have no place in the world...trouble is, unless you are a dead man walking, and really DEAD, with no breath...then the world still has a place in US!! If not, we would be perfect in this flesh...
Can we really say yet.. " The Prince of this world comes and find no place in me?" I don't think so! I would find that hard to believe that you are beyond any temptation. While the Prince of this world is still free, we will always have to overcome.
My only answer is " Lord, I in myself can't, You can"...and I endeavour to dwell in The Secret Place and abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
He is my refuge and strength...that is the ONLY way I know how to "do the works of God." I know no other way of victory.

 

[amadeus]

i suggest that perceptions are being manipulated there, too, and Judas must be symbolically described as lost in the passage to condemn the behavior, which is no different from someone bowing to the current Authority that proclaims Zionism or even Rapture, in which Christ assuming an earthly crown is implied. Judas also confessed (unto salvation, right), even if he did not rebound per se, and he obv demonstrated remorse, so i would not be too quick to condemn Judas, myself anyway

Actually, I really try not to finally condemn anyone even though some like Judas and Esau and King Saul present examples of what we should not be doing. A momentary condemnation within the context could very well be as it was with Moses. He did not make it into the Promised Land because he disobeyed God when he smote the rock instead of simply speaking to it. That he was not finally condemned is supported by his appearance at the "transfiguration" of Jesus.

Many believers are channelling Judas today, when it can be realized what Judas betrayed, bc Judas surely did not expect the authorities to be able to even touch Jesus, except by His leave, which was not anticipated, right. Judas might be thus characterized as "someone who expected Jesus to take authority by force."

Actually this problem with Judas could provide another clue into the difference between the Church and the Bride. Judas definitely would have missed being in the Bride of Christ, but may still be found within the Church.

 

[amadeus]

imo he rejected the possibility of his works, and sought to worship Jesus as king, rather than follow Christ, but then this also describes most church believers imo, who also bow to kings

Indeed and I do believe that some of those believers will be in the Church while missing the Bride.