The Amazing Abraham

[bbyrd009]

wow, i'll be re-reading Genesis 11 tonight i guess!
some other unique perspectives here, anyone fam with Abe's story paralleling Babel? hmm
The amazing name Abraham: meaning and etymology

The name Abraham is applied to only one man in the Bible: the famous son of Terah, who started out his life as Abram in Ur of the Chaldeans (Genesis 11:27) and ended it in Canaan, as the grandfather of Jacob, who became Israel.

 

[bbyrd009]

"...Noah marks the level of complexity at which the human mind is distinguished from animal behavior (hence 'they knew not until the flood came'; Matthew 24:39, also see 2 Peter 2:12 and Jude 1:10).

The story of Abraham serves as ultimate result of the destruction of the tower of Babel. Abraham's story follows the tower's story directly (Genesis 11), as two sides of the same coin..."

 

[truth333]

wow, i'll be re-reading Genesis 11 tonight i guess!
some other unique perspectives here, anyone fam with Abe's story paralleling Babel? hmm
The amazing name Abraham: meaning and etymology

Lol! Nothing more than an attempt to deny the Papacy.

The Bible Proves The Papacy

 

[bbyrd009]

hmm, they're separated by so much time it wouldn't have occurred to me to connect the two. Abraham denies the Papacy?

 

[bbyrd009]

i see similarities in 'scattered over the face of the earth" and "nothing you do will be impossible for you" already, but no more time tonight Genesis 11 Parallel Chapters

 

[truth333]

hmm, they're separated by so much time it wouldn't have occurred to me to connect the two. Abraham denies the Papacy?

I love your double speak. Its perfect for you, being a bird i.e. parrot! LOL!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

e story of Abraham serves as ultimate result of the destruction of the tower of Babel.

Destruction of the Tower of Babel? Parallels? Can you elaborate? I am lost but would like to follow thread.

 

[bbyrd009]

Destruction of the Tower of Babel? Parallels? Can you elaborate? I am lost but would like to follow thread.

that was a quote from the link, which i have only had time to skim briefly. i posted it mostly to see if anyone else was familiar with the perspective, which is new to me also. i'll try to get to it today. I was mostly struck by how i guess there is only one "Abram/Abraham" in the Bible, which is unique in itself i guess?

 

[bbyrd009]

Destruction of the Tower of Babel? Parallels? Can you elaborate? I am lost but would like to follow thread.

ok, i'm still at sea here myself ok, but this paragraph should be discussed for starters, if someone believes that Abe merely had a belief in God:

"It's been famously said that Abraham believed YHWH (and He reckoned that as righteousness; Genesis 15:6). The key-verb is אמן ('aman), which does not denote simply accepting for true an otherwise unverified statement but rather an active upholding of a standard. Abraham's patriarchy is one of doing; an activity much more fundamental than any particular conviction."

if one is ok with this, the connection to the parallel doing in "building the Tower" will clarify; if not, then it won't i guess.
(a likely parallel is with Paul's def of "doctrine," = manner of living, which is also not the accepted def today)

so iow if "doctrine" still means "a belief" to (you), that will cause problems also

 

[Helen]

I have just found this thread!!
I wish the Alerts would include new threads ..."Watched threads" don't help, because we are already watching them. How does everyone else find "New Threads"?

Anyway...it is mid-afternoon now , and my poor brain is mushy from eating too many sweets...I need to watch the link in post #1 before commenting..I have clicked 'watch thread' so I should get Alerts to remind me now.

Later.....H

 

[bbyrd009]

I have just found this thread!!
I wish the Alerts would include new threads ..."Watched threads" don't help, because we are already watching them. How does everyone else find "New Threads"?

ha they mostly don't, i guess. drives me nuts too

 

[bbyrd009]

"The Biblical narrative does not progress along a temporal axis (following time, like a modern story would) but along a complexity axis (from general to specific). Hence Adam marks the level that all living things have in common (Eve was the 'mother of all life', or in modern terms: the biosphere; Genesis 3:20, and the 'original sin' affected the whole of creation; Romans 8:22), and Noah marks the level of complexity at which the human mind is distinguished from animal behavior (hence 'they knew not until the flood came'; Matthew 24:39, also see 2 Peter 2:12 and Jude 1:10)."

i remem passing on this perspective several years ago, and now for whatever reason it is resonating better.
Quite different from the Christian perspective, huh
gotta review the evidence though, manana God willing

 

[Jay Ross]

perhaps the attached PDF file will help the discussion

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ok, i'm still at sea here myself ok, but this paragraph should be discussed for starters, if someone believes that Abe merely had a belief in God:

"It's been famously said that Abraham believed YHWH (and He reckoned that as righteousness; Genesis 15:6). The key-verb is אמן ('aman), which does not denote simply accepting for true an otherwise unverified statement but rather an active upholding of a standard. Abraham's patriarchy is one of doing; an activity much more fundamental than any particular conviction."

if one is ok with this, the connection to the parallel doing in "building the Tower" will clarify; if not, then it won't i guess.
(a likely parallel is with Paul's def of "doctrine," = manner of living, which is also not the accepted def today)

so iow if "doctrine" still means "a belief" to (you), that will cause problems also

I wasn't sure what you meant by doctrine so I googled the meaning of doctrine. If you mean: do I identify with a certain denomination or group...not really. I am seeing more and more everyday that everything I previously accepted as truth taught from a denomination, may not be the point. I've had to start over. I hear Christ from beginning to end, and believe He is the Son of God come in the flesh. If you mean doctrine as going to the word for answers, then yes, I still go to His word so I don't fall prey to imagination.

In response to the Abraham and the destruction of the Tower of Babel; is interesting that Christ also does the same.

Zephaniah 3:9 KJV
[9] For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord , to serve him with one consent.

Maybe that's nowhere near your topic and that is fine, that is just what i understood of it.

 

[bbyrd009]

I wasn't sure what you meant by doctrine so I googled the meaning of doctrine. If you mean: do I identify with a certain denomination or group...not really. I am seeing more and more everyday that everything I previously accepted as truth taught from a denomination, may not be the point. I've had to start over. I hear Christ from beginning to end, and believe He is the Son of God come in the flesh. If you mean doctrine as going to the word for answers, then yes, I still go to His word so I don't fall prey to imagination.

In response to the Abraham and the destruction of the Tower of Babel; is interesting that Christ also does the same.

Zephaniah 3:9 KJV
[9] For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord , to serve him with one consent.

Maybe that's nowhere near your topic and that is fine, that is just what i understood of it.

that's a cool reflection!

i was mostly interested in the "Abraham paralleling Babel" part, but tbh this all came up researching something for another thread anyway, and i just thought i'd see if anyone could shed light on that, but really whatever comes out here is fine with me. The One Abe" thing kinda struck me, i mean we even have at least 2 Jesuses? Wasn't even sure if that was true or not lol

 

[bbyrd009]

perhaps the attached PDF file will help the discussion

i really have too much on my plate at the moment, i skimmed that, do you see any connections that you would like to build on?
(also the "common era" thing kinda blinds me i guess)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"...Noah marks the level of complexity at which the human mind is distinguished from animal behavior (hence 'they knew not until the flood came'; Matthew 24:39, also see 2 Peter 2:12 and Jude 1:10).

Consider: Noah (the Ark)marks the "human mind distinguished from animal behavior".

Also "in Christ" (the Ark) marks the "human mind distinguished from animal behavior".

Matthew 24:38-39 KJV
[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, [39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[bbyrd009]

"The Hebrew scholars of the kingdom years weren't operating in a cultural vacuum, but lavishly borrowed stories, imagery and terminology from their colleague scholars of neighboring cultures. The same thing obviously happens today, when a Christian apologist might try to drive the gospel home while using time-bound terms such as evolution theory, search engine, server (or even: opportunity cost, target audience, swarm intelligence, and so on).

The name Leviathan reflects another example of Yahwism being discussed in terms of Babylonian imagery. And the phrases King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Savior of the World and even Son of God came straight from Roman imperial theology and were hijacked by the apostle Paul to allow the citizens of the Roman world to discuss the mystery of the Messiah.

The reader should realize by now that ancient people had completely different feelings when they saw..." The amazing name Abraham: meaning and etymology

 

[Stranger]

Destruction of the Tower of Babel? Parallels? Can you elaborate? I am lost but would like to follow thread.

So is everyone else, lost. So is he.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

i hope i made that clear, yes. I'm pretty much up to speed with the concept now though, even though the article did not really connect all the dots there, @ "Abe contrasts with Babel."