Abraham was not saved by faith alone

[OzSpen]

"Appears to me" is just another way of saying that there is a difference in definitions between belief and faith. I am familiar with pistes and convinced that the Greek doesn't tell the whole story. So belief leads to repentance leads to faith. If you believe (Acts 2:37), you act (2:38), and the "evidence" of your belief is receiving the Holy Ghost .. and faith. Now that is how it worked for me so I also can testify to the truth of this order.

Notice, though, that where you say "faith alone" leads to confession, others say it leads to works not commanded of us in the gospel. Are you going to obey the gospel or are you not, 2Thes 1:8?

skypair

skypair,

The Greek word for faith is not pistes. It is pistis. I never said 'appears to me'.

If the Greek doesn't tell the story, which language does? Belief / believe = faith in the Greek language.

This article provides the biblical evidence: The Words of the Gospel: BELIEVE / FAITH.

Oz

 

[bbyrd009]

believe = faith in the Greek language.

but "beliefs" are nonetheless not "faith," even in Greek

 

[skypair]

No, this is me telling you, reminding you...of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the great commission of telling the world the good news - not adding "works" as you put it, to that simple commandment.

Your reference to Acts 2:36-40 was off the mark. He was not speaking of the great commission, nor to the gentile nations of whom the good news was to be given. But, rather, Peter was addressing those of Israel and that wicked generation who crucified the Lord.

OK, first I would ask where you get your gospel from if not Acts 2:36-40.

Second, like the newspaper that comes with "news" every day, the gospel you seem to be talking about is a gospel that doesn't affect your life. Are the "great commissioned" simply old world newspaper boys?

Next I would point you to the Galations who turned away from the gospel to another gospel (the law, 1:7) because they did not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ (3:1). This is quite similar to "Christians" today who believe the good news but then don't obey it. In 1Cor 15:2, 14, 17, Paul told the Corinthians that if they had not been "resurrected" from the "dead," then their belief/faith was in vain. Here again, if they didn't obey the gospel, they were still dead men walking. He ends in 15:29 by asking, Why are you baptized for the dead if you have not died (repented)?

So Acts 2:36-40 is the "pattern gospel." It is the first mention .. in 2:36, Jn 16:8-10 ("He will convict you of…") is laid out against sinners. In 2:37, they are convicted in their hearts because they believe, and they ask "What shall we do?" Now I realize that, at this point, the Calvinist would have answered, "Nothing." That is not what Peter answered and that is not what the Bible throughout answers. And so obviouisly, you would have to repent of your theology (2:40) AND your sin.

skypair

 

[H. Richard]

OK, first I would ask where you get your gospel from if not Acts 2:36-40.

Second, like the newspaper that comes with "news" every day, the gospel you seem to be talking about is a gospel that doesn't affect your life. Are the "great commissioned" simply old world newspaper boys?

Next I would point you to the Galations who turned away from the gospel to another gospel (the law, 1:7) because they did not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ (3:1). This is quite similar to "Christians" today who believe the good news but then don't obey it. In 1Cor 15:2, 14, 17, Paul told the Corinthians that if they had not been "resurrected" from the "dead," then their belief/faith was in vain. Here again, if they didn't obey the gospel, they were still dead men walking. He ends in 15:29 by asking, Why are you baptized for the dead if you have not died (repented)?

So Acts 2:36-40 is the "pattern gospel." It is the first mention .. in 2:36, Jn 16:8-10 ("He will convict you of…") is laid out against sinners. In 2:37, they are convicted in their hearts because they believe, and they ask "What shall we do?" Now I realize that, at this point, the Calvinist would have answered, "Nothing." That is not what Peter answered and that is not what the Bible throughout answers. And so obviouisly, you would have to repent of your theology (2:40) AND your sin.

skypair

***
skypair you don't seem to realize that Peter was only talking to the Jews in Acts 2. The fact that God had to show Peter a vision of what was clean shows that Peter did not believe the Gentiles were included at the writing of Acts 2. The gospel of grace did not come through Peter. It was given to Paul to take to the world.

That is what happens when people do not take into consideration WHO is being talked to and why.

Peter's sermon on Pentecost:

I believe that Peter's sermon has been taken out of context and used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized. This article is my attempt to prove that it has to be read “IN CONTEXT.“

(was it to the Jews and the Gentiles, or just to the Jews?)

Acts 2:31 38 (NKJV)
31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
'Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

In the above Peter is testifying to the “”Jews”” that Jesus is the promised Christ.

36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

Peter tells the Jews they have crucified the Lord of Glory. The Jews wanted to know what they could do to atone """for crucifying Jesus."""

38 ""THEN"" Peter said to “”THEM,”” (them = the Jews) "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Note: Verse 36 is the verse that says who he is talking to, Verse 38 is a DIRECT answer to the question in verse 37. The Jews were to repent of rejecting Jesus and having Him crucified. NOTE: It was not to repent of sins of the sinful flesh. Nowhere in the context of these scriptures has sins of the sinful flesh been mentioned.

The Jews were to fulfill a Jewish ritual of water cleansing (water baptism), a ritual under the Law of Moses, and at the same time they were to 'acknowledge' Jesus as the Christ by performing a water cleansing ritual (baptism) in His name.

39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." Note, the promises were made to the Jews only.

Peter's sermon included verse 39 which was taken from Joel 2:28 29 and was about the ""promise of the Holy Spirit"" that was to be “”given to the Jews.”” Verse 39 was to assure the Jews that their sin of rejecting Jesus would be forgiven and that they would also be given the Holy Spirit (see verse 38). Joel 2:28 3:1

Many theologians teach that Peter was including the Gentiles in verse 39. But how can that be true since it was necessary for God, at a later date, to give Peter a dream to teach him that the Gentiles were included. Acts 10:9 16

Although it was the Gentiles that actually killed Jesus they did it because the Jews insisted. The Gentiles did not need to repent for what the Jews did. Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles therefore the Gentiles had not rejected Him. (Matt 10:5 7) (Matt 15:23 24) (Rom 15:8)

Matthew 27:24 25 (NKJV)
24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it."
Note this verse:
25 And all the people answered and said, "His blood be on us and on our children."

Verse 25 above is important.

Peter's sermon has been used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized in many of the Christian Religious churches. It has become a “FORMULA” to be repeated in order to be saved. This formula is stated as a commandment in their theological statement.

I know that some will reject this writing. But IMHO, I don't think Peter's sermon is appropriate or valid for this age of grace and those that use it are preaching a sermon that was preached to the Jews, those that had Christ crucified, as if it also applies to the Gentiles. IMHO, that is a blatant falsehood because it is not the truth. IMHO = In my honest opinion.

Then how is one saved in this age of God’s grace? Rom 10:8 13

8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." NKJV

There is nothing in Rom 10:8 13 about an act of water baptism or repentance.

 

[skypair]

skypair you don't seem to realize that Peter was only talking to the Jews in Acts 2.

The gospel is the gospel, HR. Observe that both Peter and Paul preached a gospel of repentance from sin (Acts 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20, etc.). Sure, his sermon included prophecy for Israel. That has no effect on what the gospel is or is not.

skypair

 

[skypair]

and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
Many theologians teach that Peter was including the Gentiles in verse 39. But how can that be true since it was necessary for God, at a later date,

See, this right here anticipates the Gentiles(underlined). Like I said, the gospel doesn't change just because it is to the Jews. In fact, Jesus said, "To the Jews first and then to the Greeks."

BTW, I'm not about "baptismal salvation" and neither is the Bible. The gospel of Jesus Christ is about sinners needing to repent and receive justification through forgiveness of sins.

There is nothing in Rom 10:8 13 about an act of water baptism or repentance.

Actually, some of us believe that the alternative to the Calvinism "Golden Chain of Salvation" is the one found in Ro 10:15-13 (in that order) -- hear .. believe .. call on the name of the Lord (= Acts 2:38) .. saved. Then it is quite obvious what 10:9-12 says -- believing with the new heart and confessing what is in your heart with your mouth. And you are right .. baptism is not part of the "formula."

skypair

 

[H. Richard]

The gospel is the gospel, HR. Observe that both Peter and Paul preached a gospel of repentance from sin (Acts 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20, etc.). Sure, his sermon included prophecy for Israel. That has no effect on what the gospel is or is not.

skypair

***

Only Paul preached the gospel of grace.

Did you miss the part about Peter's vision?

 

[skypair]

Only Paul preached the gospel of grace.

Did you miss the part about Peter's vision?

No. And you are right. Paul only preached one gospel .. same gospel as Peter at Pentecost .. same sinful man, same repentance, same salvation. Now there did come a time in 1Cor 2 that Paul felt that the church was divided by the same thing you are saying -- that Paul preached a different gospel than Peter or Apollos. And there was a church council in Jerusalem (Acts 15) to see if that was the case, right? So neither Paul's nor Peter's gospel was of "grace" free of repentance.

In fact, you know what "grace" is? Grace is free .. it's unmerited, right? It's the wisdom of God, the Spirit, the Bible and the gospel! And it is what we must have faith in -- "For by grace are you saved through faith [in it]..." It is by obeying "grace" that we receive salvation and blessings. Does this make sense to you?

skypair

skypair

 

[ScottA]

OK, first I would ask where you get your gospel from if not Acts 2:36-40.

Second, like the newspaper that comes with "news" every day, the gospel you seem to be talking about is a gospel that doesn't affect your life. Are the "great commissioned" simply old world newspaper boys?

Next I would point you to the Galations who turned away from the gospel to another gospel (the law, 1:7) because they did not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ (3:1). This is quite similar to "Christians" today who believe the good news but then don't obey it. In 1Cor 15:2, 14, 17, Paul told the Corinthians that if they had not been "resurrected" from the "dead," then their belief/faith was in vain. Here again, if they didn't obey the gospel, they were still dead men walking. He ends in 15:29 by asking, Why are you baptized for the dead if you have not died (repented)?

So Acts 2:36-40 is the "pattern gospel." It is the first mention .. in 2:36, Jn 16:8-10 ("He will convict you of…") is laid out against sinners. In 2:37, they are convicted in their hearts because they believe, and they ask "What shall we do?" Now I realize that, at this point, the Calvinist would have answered, "Nothing." That is not what Peter answered and that is not what the Bible throughout answers. And so obviouisly, you would have to repent of your theology (2:40) AND your sin.

skypair

You have apparently cherry-picked from the scriptures and come up with your own gospel.

1. First, gospel, simply means "truth." So...the gospel of Christ, is the whole truth from Christ - not just what you have picked out.
2. The "good" news, simply refers to the fact that Christ/Messiah has come, and has made salvation possible. What about that does not affect your life? That's crazy. As for "obeying" the "gospel"... apparently you don't know the meanings of the words: obey the truth? That would not even qualify to be called "good news." As for the Corinthians not being resurrected from the dead, that is a different matter. He was referring to receiving the Holy Spirit, being born again of the spirit of God - which does not require "obeying", but rather "receiving." Which does not mean "repent." Again, that is a different issue, as it pertains to salvation.
3. But that all speaks of the salvation of the born again, which are "those who are alive and remain", whom are "the living in Christ." Whereas, Acts 2:36-40 is NOT a pattern of the gospel for all, but only for "the dead in Christ", which is to say Israel...but NOT the gentiles. Peter was addressing the last generation of Israel, of whom Christ was "the Last", as was Jn 16:8-10. You are mixing what Jesus made a point of keeping separate in two separate "folds."

 

[Helen]

Some excellent posts and reading here...much enjoyed..

 

[skypair]

First, gospel, simply means "truth." So...the gospel of Christ, is the whole truth from Christ

Big problem there, Scott. We aren't saved by believing in the Bible. We are not even saved by believing the gospel -- that we are sinners and that Christ died for our sins. I know that some theologies believe that we are saved by simply believing the scriptures and the gospel but that isn't the gospel.

You are probably not familiar that there are 3 gospels: 1) the everlasting gospel (Ro 1:20,Rev 16:3-4) says that we remain just as long as we acknowledge God, worship, and thank Him and haven't knowing sinned against Him. 2) The "gospel of the kingdom" (OT) says they were saved so long as they repented of sin (Job 33:27-28, Isa 55:7, etc.) trusting God that, at the coming of Messiah in His kingdom, He would forgive their sins and give them a new heart. 3) That gospel of Jesus Christ (NT) says that, knowing that we have sinned against God, we need to repent and trust our lives to Him.

The "good" news, simply refers to the fact that Christ/Messiah has come, and has made salvation possible. What about that does not affect your life? That's crazy. As for "obeying" the "gospel"... apparently you don't know the meanings of the words: obey the truth?

So like I said, you believe that gospel but you don't know how to obey it, right? I realize how the first time you realize that the Bible wasn't just man's words but God's, is a moving experience.it. I had been to Presby, Methodist, Congregational, and Christian churches before and had never understood that.

But that is not salvation. Obedience to the gospel that saves sinners is repentance (Isa 55:7, Psa 34:18, Lk 18:13, etc.). Job 33:27-28 even tells us that God will save our souls from going to the pit if we repent.

But that all speaks of the salvation of the born again, which are "those who are alive and remain", whom are "the living in Christ."

So you are making the error of many who think that b/c they believe the Bible and the gospel, they are born again. And they are so convinced because they believe on has to have the Holy Spirit in order to believe. Well, it is true that when on believes the Bible and the gospel, one has received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, the mind of God, is the Bible. But through repentance and forgiveness, we receive the Holy Ghost -- Christ in you (Gal 1:27). And that is "born again." That is the old man put off by repentance and the new man put on by receiving the new man of Jesus Christ.

The concept of Holy Ghost has been lost since 1611 when the KJV version came out. Every version after that has replaced Holy Spirit with Holy Ghost -- which is wrong. You can't have the "mind of Christ" unless you have Christ.

skypair

 

[ScottA]

Big problem there, Scott. We aren't saved by believing in the Bible. We are not even saved by believing the gospel -- that we are sinners and that Christ died for our sins. I know that some theologies believe that we are saved by simply believing the scriptures and the gospel but that isn't the gospel.

You are probably not familiar that there are 3 gospels: 1) the everlasting gospel (Ro 1:20,Rev 16:3-4) says that we remain just as long as we acknowledge God, worship, and thank Him and haven't knowing sinned against Him. 2) The "gospel of the kingdom" (OT) says they were saved so long as they repented of sin (Job 33:27-28, Isa 55:7, etc.) trusting God that, at the coming of Messiah in His kingdom, He would forgive their sins and give them a new heart. 3) That gospel of Jesus Christ (NT) says that, knowing that we have sinned against God, we need to repent and trust our lives to Him.


So like I said, you believe that gospel but you don't know how to obey it, right? I realize how the first time you realize that the Bible wasn't just man's words but God's, is a moving experience.it. I had been to Presby, Methodist, Congregational, and Christian churches before and had never understood that.

But that is not salvation. Obedience to the gospel that saves sinners is repentance (Isa 55:7, Psa 34:18, Lk 18:13, etc.). Job 33:27-28 even tells us that God will save our souls from going to the pit if we repent.

So you are making the error of many who think that b/c they believe the Bible and the gospel, they are born again. And they are so convinced because they believe on has to have the Holy Spirit in order to believe. Well, it is true that when on believes the Bible and the gospel, one has received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, the mind of God, is the Bible. But through repentance and forgiveness, we receive the Holy Ghost -- Christ in you (Gal 1:27). And that is "born again." That is the old man put off by repentance and the new man put on by receiving the new man of Jesus Christ.

The concept of Holy Ghost has been lost since 1611 when the KJV version came out. Every version after that has replaced Holy Spirit with Holy Ghost -- which is wrong. You can't have the "mind of Christ" unless you have Christ.

skypair

1. I should not even answer you - you are in need of milk, and recklessly take on what you know very little about. The words are not enough, the scriptures must be discerned spiritually.
2. There is only One Truth (gospel), not three.
3. As for being saved by believing this or that, it is rather "by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." But you take it upon yourself to judge God as to what He shall reveal to men throughout the ages - and you have not heard the last of it.
4. You should not preach, nor teach, but should, as was Paul's counsel, you should be silent in church (letting only God speak).

 

[skypair]

I should not even answer you

Well, you got this part right.

skypair