Can a Christian be only partly saved?

[GodsGrace]

I've found bits and pieces of truth in other works, but a little bit of the truth is what makes an effective lie. Scripture says that the gods of the nations are demons. The goal of demonic entities is to deceive people and keep them from believing and receiving Jesus Christ. When someone says that there are other ways to enter the kingdom the same is a thief and a liar. You have to enter the sheepfold by the gate, going over the wall is not an option.
Translations can be problematic as the rendered version will always reflect the philosophy or belief of the translators (a kind of self justification). The New World Translation and JPS Tanaach are 2 perfect examples of how the translators disbelief in the person of Christ altered the fundamental meaning of passages revealing Him as God incarnate. If you don't read the original languages, the best that you can do is read multiple translations and trust the Teacher to reveal the truth in them.

I'm amazed by some that say they learn ONLY with the Holy Spirit.
He can tell us everything we need to know in order to know Jesus.
If we want to know more about our faith, we really do need teachers, and I mean persons that have taught in mainline churches and have some initials after their name, or have been taught in those churches using those methods.

There are too many heretical beliefs going around these days...

 

[michaelvpardo]

I'm amazed by some that say they learn ONLY with the Holy Spirit.
He can tell us everything we need to know in order to know Jesus.
If we want to know more about our faith, we really do need teachers, and I mean persons that have taught in mainline churches and have some initials after their name, or have been taught in those churches using those methods.

There are too many heretical beliefs going around these days...

Heretical beliefs started in the 1st century AD and if you look at today's heresies, you'll find that they're mostly just repeated from the previous centuries. The leadership of the church has the burden of addressing false doctrine, but God in the person of our Lord intentionally held back information from His own disciples, because they were not prepared to deal with it. God also said to His prophets that some things were sealed up for the end or latter times. If they were sealed, then no amount of scholarship or spiritual maturity was ever going to reveal their meaning before the time predetermined by God Himself. Now, we can debate when the end times starts or started and what times are referenced by the phrase "latter times", but only the fulfillment of prophecy is a sure way to prove a given framework. The reestablishment of the descendants of Jacob in Palestine as a nation is one such totally unique sign of the times and of the age to come. There was never before a nation that was totally destroyed and then restored, much less one restored after 1900 years. Our times are unique in history. Its no longer possible for scoffers to deny the rapidly increasing rate of natural and man made disasters as having always occurred but gone unreported. Since we are drawing near the end of the age we need to expect both the rise of false christs and false prophets, as well as an increase in knowledge both scriptural and worldly. Don't be fooled by "initials following a name" as the world is full of liars and fools with doctorate and masters degrees. God turns the wisdom of the wise to foolishness and is exalted in the excellence of His teaching. Out of the mouths of babes and nursing infants He has ordained strength (Psalm 8:2).
It is written in the prophets, 'and they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. John 6:45.

 

[pastor marty]

I've found bits and pieces of truth in other works, but a little bit of the truth is what makes an effective lie. Scripture says that the gods of the nations are demons. The goal of demonic entities is to deceive people and keep them from believing and receiving Jesus Christ. When someone says that there are other ways to enter the kingdom the same is a thief and a liar. You have to enter the sheepfold by the gate, going over the wall is not an option.
Translations can be problematic as the rendered version will always reflect the philosophy or belief of the translators (a kind of self justification). The New World Translation and JPS Tanaach are 2 perfect examples of how the translators disbelief in the person of Christ altered the fundamental meaning of passages revealing Him as God incarnate. If you don't read the original languages, the best that you can do is read multiple translations and trust the Teacher to reveal the truth in them.

Michael Michael;what U say is true but yer missin the point.The best deception mixes truth w/lies (correct)If I tell a curious Hindoo his whole life is based on crap rite off the bat what chance do I have 2 accomplish anything ? Whearas if I point out all the good stuff our beliefs share I might just get past his defenses> 2 him my Christ is just a fake 2..Walking up 2 bunch of islanders or bikers & shouting;"Yer all damned & gonna burn in Hell !" is no-way 2 start a dialog..So much knowledge/pal/mix it w/a lil' common sense.U don't get out & preach much;do U ??No one living in a tent under a RR bridge gives a hoot what U know/they react 2 what U show !!No 1 knows the word better than Lucifer (any bible) & that's why we got the Spirit (advocate) cuase the devil can't listen in !!(ya,I no/spelled cause wrong/w/only 2 working fingers its 2 much work 2 correct)so please don't B like my usual detractors who claim my ideas can't B valid cawz I put the B's in" BOB " on the wrong end.It's such a cheap shot .My friend;St. Paul sd;"B as subtle as a serpent & as gentile as a dove !"If U ever find yerself in a cannibals pot/waving a diploma won't get U out... PAX ! <m>

 

[pastor marty]

I'm amazed by some that say they learn ONLY with the Holy Spirit.
He can tell us everything we need to know in order to know Jesus.
If we want to know more about our faith, we really do need teachers, and I mean persons that have taught in mainline churches and have some initials after their name, or have been taught in those churches using those methods.

There are too many heretical beliefs going around these days...

Yes;dear 1;correct again ! Never bother GOD w/minutiae or stuff U can look up yerself.Sanctus's (Santa's ?) gifts ! Some 2 teach/some 2 preach/some 2 ladle out free soup ! It's all good ...<m>

 

[pastor marty]

I have to agree with you.
I didn't read all you did. And won't be.
I tried a couple. Very little of the Qur'an.
Some writings of Krishna. Very beautiful, BTW.
The Gospel of Thomas

I stopped reading all of it. Oh. And the extra-biblical books.
It sounds like mumbo jumbo.
The bible IS special.
It can make one know God.
It can save a person.
Yeah. There's no other book like it.
Sounds like one complete though and it spans about 3,500 years.

And my phone book is still valid even tho someone ripped out the pages from U to Z. If Nicodemous(Jesus's rich friend) had written abt.his young prophet protégé would that B invalid/false because I don't like it/the council of Nicea didn't ?Or my gramma hated the guy guy 4 jilting her ?" So narrow our scope/so intransient our views/that in our pride we told GOD what HE could do !"attributed 2 some Heb/mystic or maybe Thomas Aquinas/who cares !! That which we can't understand is Mambo-Gumbo/so lets chuck revelations out ! its harder 2 understand than a recipe for fried chicken in Sanskrit..I may use humor & Aesop like stories 2 make a point.( A lil'bit o'honey helps the medicine go down/quote/Julie Andrews with that silly umbrella that helped her fly) but I'm as accurate as the UPS on a "hawkeye" drone aimed at an ISIS arms bunker !!Also somewhere in the OT is the phrase;"If U want 2 know more U can read it in the"book of the wars of our Lord" which,2 bad;is LOST;along w/others.That don't make the bible any less GOD's word /& I'm hopefull they'll turn up in the next cave pot !(DSS) And finally;what ever did we do in those 1st 3/4/5 hundred yrs. w/no bibles(don't matter/we couldn't read)when forum(Roman)posters read;"wanted/dead or alive"/info abt. Christian's/dead 10 sesterces/alive 20 (we need them 4 the Arena so we pay more) U scratched a fish symbol in the dirt & hoped no cop saw U; 2 signal 2 fellow believers .So/bible gud/word of mouth gud/trust the Spirit gud/Many fingers make God's hands ! PAX ! <m>

 

[pastor marty]

Why don't anybody ask what that horribly translated OT phrase that got millions killed was ?? Can't stand the thought a mechanic might know more abt. cars than U ? Wonder if Aristotle had that prob;also ??

 

[pastor marty]

Heretical beliefs started in the 1st century AD and if you look at today's heresies, you'll find that they're mostly just repeated from the previous centuries. The leadership of the church has the burden of addressing false doctrine, but God in the person of our Lord intentionally held back information from His own disciples, because they were not prepared to deal with it. God also said to His prophets that some things were sealed up for the end or latter times. If they were sealed, then no amount of scholarship or spiritual maturity was ever going to reveal their meaning before the time predetermined by God Himself. Now, we can debate when the end times starts or started and what times are referenced by the phrase "latter times", but only the fulfillment of prophecy is a sure way to prove a given framework. The reestablishment of the descendants of Jacob in Palestine as a nation is one such totally unique sign of the times and of the age to come. There was never before a nation that was totally destroyed and then restored, much less one restored after 1900 years. Our times are unique in history. Its no longer possible for scoffers to deny the rapidly increasing rate of natural and man made disasters as having always occurred but gone unreported. Since we are drawing near the end of the age we need to expect both the rise of false christs and false prophets, as well as an increase in knowledge both scriptural and worldly. Don't be fooled by "initials following a name" as the world is full of liars and fools with doctorate and masters degrees. God turns the wisdom of the wise to foolishness and is exalted in the excellence of His teaching. Out of the mouths of babes and nursing infants He has ordained strength (Psalm 8:2).
It is written in the prophets, 'and they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. John 6:45.

U;Michael;R really inciteful ! Look up my ex-comparative religions Prof, Chris Jakeway on facebook. He's a scholar emetrieus,has more degrees than a thermomiter and takes students 2 the holy land ea. summer 2 dig w/the Jews.He often would tell our class:" I have no idea what he's talking abt."(meaning me) but we'd sit in his study after class & chat.< Example> "Doc;don't 2 diff. creation O'man events on pg. 1 o'Genisis make more sense than Cain sneeking home.kidnapping his sister & adding incest 2 his other crimes 2 get a wife ??There were people out there from the 1st. botched attempt !! Isn't that why HE created a big petrie dish/sterile lab environment 4 the next (EDEN)" If anyone is interested in the rest o'th storey...ask & I'll tell ya ! Did they hate my Doc. thesis cause I was wrong or just cause they couldn't refute it or maybe just that nobody likes a wise-guy ??? <m>

 

[tabletalk]

U;Michael;R really inciteful ! Look up my ex-comparative religions Prof, Chris Jakeway on facebook. He's a scholar emetrieus,has more degrees than a thermomiter and takes students 2 the holy land ea. summer 2 dig w/the Jews.He often would tell our class:" I have no idea what he's talking abt."(meaning me) but we'd sit in his study after class & chat.< Example> "Doc;don't 2 diff. creation O'man events on pg. 1 o'Genisis make more sense than Cain sneeking home.kidnapping his sister & adding incest 2 his other crimes 2 get a wife ??There were people out there from the 1st. botched attempt !! Isn't that why HE created a big petrie dish/sterile lab environment 4 the next (EDEN)" If anyone is interested in the rest o'th storey...ask & I'll tell ya ! Did they hate my Doc. thesis cause I was wrong or just cause they couldn't refute it or maybe just that nobody likes a wise-guy ??? <m>

May I quote you: "has more degrees than a thermomiter..." ? Ha!

 

[GodsGrace]

Heretical beliefs started in the 1st century AD and if you look at today's heresies, you'll find that they're mostly just repeated from the previous centuries. The leadership of the church has the burden of addressing false doctrine, but God in the person of our Lord intentionally held back information from His own disciples, because they were not prepared to deal with it. God also said to His prophets that some things were sealed up for the end or latter times. If they were sealed, then no amount of scholarship or spiritual maturity was ever going to reveal their meaning before the time predetermined by God Himself. Now, we can debate when the end times starts or started and what times are referenced by the phrase "latter times", but only the fulfillment of prophecy is a sure way to prove a given framework. The reestablishment of the descendants of Jacob in Palestine as a nation is one such totally unique sign of the times and of the age to come. There was never before a nation that was totally destroyed and then restored, much less one restored after 1900 years. Our times are unique in history. Its no longer possible for scoffers to deny the rapidly increasing rate of natural and man made disasters as having always occurred but gone unreported. Since we are drawing near the end of the age we need to expect both the rise of false christs and false prophets, as well as an increase in knowledge both scriptural and worldly. Don't be fooled by "initials following a name" as the world is full of liars and fools with doctorate and masters degrees. God turns the wisdom of the wise to foolishness and is exalted in the excellence of His teaching. Out of the mouths of babes and nursing infants He has ordained strength (Psalm 8:2).
It is written in the prophets, 'and they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. John 6:45.

OK. Agreed. But I do learn from men. (you may be one!)
Also Jeremiah 31:34
God will teach us.
Also the Bereans...
Acts 17:10-12

 

[bbyrd009]

There are too many heretical beliefs going around these days...

ya, and that is a biggie imo. Follow Paul, and avoid those wolves, you ask me.
they categorically cannot give you the real, you want me to pull up that Scripture you ran from yesterday again? Bc it is still true, ok.

 

[GodsGrace]

ya, and that is a biggie imo. Follow Paul, and avoid those wolves, you ask me.
they categorically cannot give you the real, you want me to pull up that Scripture you ran from yesterday again? Bc it is still true, ok.

Which scripture?
What yesterday?
What's still true?

POST IT!!!
I can't remember what you're talking about!

 

[bbyrd009]

Which scripture?

the one about how ppl in the world (organized religion, Established church) give the perspective from the world's pov, bc that is all they can do.

but we would be better served here imo to discuss how the counterfeit is always given first, you have to learn the counterfeit first, and if the counterfeit serves one, then they will not seek the truth. Iow "many will be deceived, even the elect, if that were possible."

 

[GodsGrace]

the one about how ppl in the world (organized religion, Established church) give the perspective from the world's pov, bc that is all they can do

Oh. Yeah.
Gotta fill up those pews, right?
Just say whatever it takes...

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes;dear 1;correct again ! Never bother GOD w/minutiae or stuff U can look up yerself.Sanctus's (Santa's ?) gifts ! Some 2 teach/some 2 preach/some 2 ladle out free soup ! It's all good ...<m>

I think you're being too sarcastic.
How will I know when you're being serious??

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh. Yeah.
Gotta fill up those pews, right?
Just say whatever it takes...

ha well i don't mean to imply that this is the whole story, either, but that allowing them to frame your belief system might not be the best idea, after a certain point anyway. While the heir is still a child he is under the servants, even though he is the master of all.

They serve a purpose, that we may all be revealed, and we all know what denial looks like, right, so just go look for denial if you have to, it certainly isn't too hard to find here lol. when you post a certain v at someone like 4 times, and they ignore it or talk around it every time, there you go

 

[GodsGrace]

And my phone book is still valid even tho someone ripped out the pages from U to Z. If Nicodemous(Jesus's rich friend) had written abt.his young prophet protégé would that B invalid/false because I don't like it/the council of Nicea didn't ?Or my gramma hated the guy guy 4 jilting her ?" So narrow our scope/so intransient our views/that in our pride we told GOD what HE could do !"attributed 2 some Heb/mystic or maybe Thomas Aquinas/who cares !! That which we can't understand is Mambo-Gumbo/so lets chuck revelations out ! its harder 2 understand than a recipe for fried chicken in Sanskrit..I may use humor & Aesop like stories 2 make a point.( A lil'bit o'honey helps the medicine go down/quote/Julie Andrews with that silly umbrella that helped her fly) but I'm as accurate as the UPS on a "hawkeye" drone aimed at an ISIS arms bunker !!Also somewhere in the OT is the phrase;"If U want 2 know more U can read it in the"book of the wars of our Lord" which,2 bad;is LOST;along w/others.That don't make the bible any less GOD's word /& I'm hopefull they'll turn up in the next cave pot !(DSS) And finally;what ever did we do in those 1st 3/4/5 hundred yrs. w/no bibles(don't matter/we couldn't read)when forum(Roman)posters read;"wanted/dead or alive"/info abt. Christian's/dead 10 sesterces/alive 20 (we need them 4 the Arena so we pay more) U scratched a fish symbol in the dirt & hoped no cop saw U; 2 signal 2 fellow believers .So/bible gud/word of mouth gud/trust the Spirit gud/Many fingers make God's hands ! PAX ! <m>

Boy, you sure know how to say a lot with words only people like me could understand.
You get many complaints??

You mentioned the first couple hundred years. More like almost 400 hundred, but who's counting?
The bible wasn't a bound book yet, but its pages (of the N.T.) were floating around to the different "churches", some of which were homes and some. by this time, were actual bldgs. Bldgs, after the Romans stopped feeding the lions with human meat.

I like to read the Early Church Fathers. They seem to be the closest to Jesus, unless I'm sorely mistaken. Yes. Some books are lost to us. Greek and Babylonian writings found in Alessandria. They no longer are. Can't think of any right now. Books are precious. Farenheit 451 horrified me. BURN BOOKS! I've never thrown a book out. And some deserve to be thrown out!! (I used to belong to a book club back when I used to read and some of them were garbage with a capital G).

OK. So what were we talking about??

 

[GodsGrace]

ha well i don't mean to imply that this is the whole story, either, but that allowing them to frame your belief system might not be the best idea, after a certain point anyway. While the heir is still a child he is under the servants, even though he is the master of all.

They serve a purpose, that we may all be revealed, and we all know what denial looks like, right, so just go look for denial if you have to, it certainly isn't too hard to find here lol. when you post a certain v at someone like 4 times, and they ignore it or talk around it every time, there you go

No one has framed my belief system.
I left the CC.
That took a lot of studying.
A lot of open mindedness.
We do end up with something we agree with.
Because we agree with something, does that mean we've been duped? Or brainwashed?
I hope not. Otherwise no one could agree with anything..!

 

[bbyrd009]

No one has framed my belief system.

lol, ok, well mine got framed, maybe yours didn't, i dunno

I left the CC.
That took a lot of studying.
A lot of open mindedness.
We do end up with something we agree with.

what has made it through the fire--which is not "worship Jesus" iow--yes

 

[bbyrd009]

Because we agree with something, does that mean we've been duped? Or brainwashed?

very possible, the way to find out is put it through the fire (forum), and listen for any denial or oracle, imo.

which we have both, abounding here imo. You have most likely come very close to stating a truth when no one replies to your post, i guess, although that can be counterfeited too

 

[GodsGrace]

lol, ok, well mine got framed, maybe yours didn't, i dunno

what has made it through the fire--which is not "worship Jesus" iow--yes

NO. I worship Jesus.
I think He's God.