What about Hell ?

[Taken]

You aren't speaking of me, are you?

Curious? Was she speaking of you?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

yes, A is an annihilationist

You aren't speaking of me, are you?

i heard this mentioned before...guess i'll hafta go look it up pretty soon lol.

annihilationist ah, not quite what i expected; i'm curious how you treat "all go to the same place?"

 

[bbyrd009]

As a fact, I trust to believe the Scriptures are True.

ha well i guess everyone says that, right; it is essentially meaningless, possibly even a statement of denial

i mean,
don't work for food
provide for your family
hate your family

resolve those, or how might you interpret
Ezekiel 13:20 Lexicon: Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am against your magic bands by which you hunt lives there as birds and I will tear them from your arms; and I will let them go, even those lives whom you hunt as birds.
for instance, stuff like that?

 

[amadeus]

Curious? Was she speaking of you?

God Bless,
Taken

Very likely she was!

 

[Helen]

Curious? Was she speaking of you?

God Bless,
Taken

Yes I was 'speaking of him' ...inside joke.
Amadeus knows that I know most of what he believes and doesn't believe, and he with me.
But we differ on a few places... ( like life after death, ... or not)

We have been very good friends for over a decade. :)

 

[Helen]

ha well i guess everyone says that, right; it is essentially meaningless, possibly even a statement of denial.
i mean, don't work for food
provide for your family hate your family
resolve those, or how might you interpret
Ezekiel 13:20 Lexicon: Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am against your magic bands by which you hunt lives there as birds and I will tear them from your arms; and I will let them go, even those lives whom you hunt as birds.
for instance, stuff like that?

Agree.
And you already know my favourite when people tell me they "believe the bible"...
If you still have your eyes, ( not plucked out) and you still have two hands...( not cut off).....you don't really!!
If Jesus meant everything He said to be taken literally. And we say " I believe everything the bible says".... then I'm a monkeys uncle ..( and don't say what you are thinking!! )

Everything, and every problem...is all in the interpretation of what we read.
Some are so cock-sure that they are 100% right.

I will trust that I am right, but be ready and prepared if I happen to be wrong. Which is not impossible. Though many wont entertain that thought. :)

It is when people post as if they are 'God speaking', that I tend to turn off.

Gotta run now....busy day ahead...later....H

 

[amadeus]

yes, A is an annihilationist

i heard this mentioned before...guess i'll hafta go look it up pretty soon lol.

annihilationist ah, not quite what i expected; i'm curious how you treat "all go to the same place?"

It is not a name I sought after, but over time I have moved toward it. There are certainly problems with it, but to me other places have more difficulties than the place where I am. To simplify it for other I may sometimes simply say that I am... an annihilationist. But briefly below is what I see...

Everyone without Jesus is dead and all of us were born to our natural mothers that way: dead to God.
Only in Jesus is there any resurrection from the dead. Anyone who has never received the Life that he brought remains dead and will not rise.

"The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous." Psalm 1:4-5

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

What further judgment is needed for someone who has never been alive? What punishment is just for someone who never knew God, who never knew Jesus?

"For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again." Ecc 3:19-20

Check what Solomon was writing. He was speaking of men in the flesh. Everyone of us returns to the dust where we began.

Is there more? There is if we are led to more, for we certainly cannot get there alone. So Jesus came and made a Way where there was no way, but who can get there alone?

"Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards." John 13:36

So Jesus went as he said he would and let us not remember the "afterwards". But for those not following Jesus there is no afterwards. There is only the dust.

Only those in dying Christ will be resurrected. Many verses show that. But for another viewpoint some will look to these verses:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28-29

And...

"And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." Acts 24:15

Do we want those who never received the Life which Jesus is to be resurrected? For what purpose and according to whom?

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." I Cor 15:21-22

What I see with those others verses [John 5:28-29 & Acts 24:15] is a difference in resurrections among those who did receive, who have received, Life through Jesus, not for those who never came to Life at all. No resurrection for them.

Those without resurrection would have nothing else. Torment them without ceasing? The fire, which is God, is everlasting, but is the torment for everybody who did not receive Life everlasting? The fire is the Word of God. It cleanses and purifies by burning up all that is not good. Someone who has no good at the end of their course will be burned up completely. [Only God is good.] The difference is seen in Daniel chapter 3 between the three Hebrews thrown into the fire and the king's soldier who threw them into the fire. The fire is the Word of God and/or God Himself.

"For our God is a consuming fire." Heb 12:29

He is a consuming fire, not a tormenting fire.

 

[bbyrd009]

a poor example maybe, but

So, enlightend me, Einstein.

imo Einstein may have just been "resurrected."

 

[BreadOfLife]

a poor example maybe, but
imo Einstein may have just been "resurrected."

If he was - he certainly didn't appear on THIS forum . . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

If he was - he certainly didn't appear on THIS forum . . . .

not to anyone looking with two eyes, certainly. i agree

 

[Taken]

ha well i guess everyone says that, right; it is essentially meaningless, possibly even a statement of denial

i mean,
don't work for food
provide for your family
hate your family

resolve those, or how might you interpret
Ezekiel 13:20 Lexicon: Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am against your magic bands by which you hunt lives there as birds and I will tear them from your arms; and I will let them go, even those lives whom you hunt as birds.
for instance, stuff like that?

No it is not a statement of denial, and no I can not speak for others, except the ones themselves who have claimed they do NOT believe all of scripture is true. Their denial will be accounted to them, not me.

As far as Ezekiel 13:20; (in context with surrounding scripture) is about men dealing with men, via their own understanding, trying to save those who reject and rejecting those who want to be saved; and Gods input from His understanding....pretty much, let them go who reject Him, stop going after them...He will rip your efforts out of your clutches.

The WAY...men were going after men, concerning their souls....seems like they were using trickery, magic, sorcery...and God is rejecting their efforts.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

It is not a name I sought after, but over time I have moved toward it. There are certainly problems with it, but to me other places have more difficulties than the place where I am. To simplify it for other I may sometimes simply say that I am... an annihilationist. But briefly below is what I see...

Everyone without Jesus is dead and all of us were born to our natural mothers that way: dead to God.
Only in Jesus is there any resurrection from the dead. Anyone who has never received the Life that he brought remains dead and will not rise.

"The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous." Psalm 1:4-5

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

What further judgment is needed for someone who has never been alive? What punishment is just for someone who never knew God, who never knew Jesus?

"For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again." Ecc 3:19-20

Check what Solomon was writing. He was speaking of men in the flesh. Everyone of us returns to the dust where we began.

Is there more? There is if we are led to more, for we certainly cannot get there alone. So Jesus came and made a Way where there was no way, but who can get there alone?

"Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards." John 13:36

So Jesus went as he said he would and let us not remember the "afterwards". But for those not following Jesus there is no afterwards. There is only the dust.

Only those in dying Christ will be resurrected. Many verses show that. But for another viewpoint some will look to these verses:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28-29

And...

"And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." Acts 24:15

Do we want those who never received the Life which Jesus is to be resurrected? For what purpose and according to whom?

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." I Cor 15:21-22

What I see with those others verses [John 5:28-29 & Acts 24:15] is a difference in resurrections among those who did receive, who have received, Life through Jesus, not for those who never came to Life at all. No resurrection for them.

Those without resurrection would have nothing else. Torment them without ceasing? The fire, which is God, is everlasting, but is the torment for everybody who did not receive Life everlasting? The fire is the Word of God. It cleanses and purifies by burning up all that is not good. Someone who has no good at the end of their course will be burned up completely. [Only God is good.] The difference is seen in Daniel chapter 3 between the three Hebrews thrown into the fire and the king's soldier who threw them into the fire. The fire is the Word of God and/or God Himself.

"For our God is a consuming fire." Heb 12:29

He is a consuming fire, not a tormenting fire.

Thank you John. Good post.
Nice and very clearly laid out...

'Almost thou persuadest me to be one...' :)

 

[amadeus]

Thank you John. Good post.
Nice and very clearly laid out...

'Almost thou persuadest me to be one...' :)

But then again only God gives us any real increase. Don't ask to become one. Ask rather to be what He wants you to be.
Give God the glory!

 

[Taken]

Agree.
And you already know my favourite when people tell me they "believe the bible"...
If you still have your eyes, ( not plucked out) and you still have two hands...( not cut off).....you don't really!!

Agree, you don't really start chopping and plucking body parts. You examine what IS offensive, and should discover it is your entire body, and become crucified with Christ.

If Jesus meant everything He said to be taken literally. And we say " I believe everything the bible says".... then I'm a monkeys uncle ..( and don't say what you are thinking!! )v

Plucking out an offensive eye was a beginners poignant example. As is a corrupt heart a poignant example, whereas the understanding comes later. The eye being the window to the soul; the heart being where a mans natural spirit is; and until those things become changed; they remain offensive to God.

Everything, and every problem...is all in the interpretation of what we read.

Every individual is equipped with a MIND, to cipher, weigh, conclude interpretation of Scriture we read.

AND - Scripture itself teaches the MIND and it's conclusions are foolishness to God.

Some are so cock-sure that they are 100% right.

SOME, absolutely seek God for HIS understanding and absolutely Trust HIS understanding IS TRUE and trumps a man's mindful understanding.

I will trust that I am right, but be ready and prepared if I happen to be wrong. Which is not impossible. Though many wont entertain that thought. :)

Only God gives understanding of HIS OWN Word.

It is when people post as if they are 'God speaking', that I tend to turn off.

I don't see anyone posing "AS IF" they think themselves God. However, a few DO speak as they have sought Gods Understanding, and speak as His Servant, that other MIGHT, be sparked to go an also seek HIS understanding.

Gotta say thou, the result is MOST run to Scripture "knowledge" LOOKING for something in opposition to argue.

Little do they KNOW, attempting to argue KNOWLEDGE against UNDERSTANDING is moot.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

No it is not a statement of denial

well, i did say "possibly," but note how...cliche`? your statement here is, lol;
"I'm not in denial!"
Not saying you are in denial tho, i certainly don't know.

 

[bbyrd009]

Little do they KNOW, attempting to argue KNOWLEDGE against UNDERSTANDING is moot.

i would be careful what i labelled "understanding" there; this can be made to be self-serving quite easily i guess

iow the RCC "understood" that a heliocentric solar system was heresy too, right

 

[Taken]

well, i did say "possibly," but note how...cliche`? your statement here is, lol;
"I'm not in denial!"
Not saying you are in denial tho, i certainly don't know.

A possibility from you toward me.
A non-possibility from me.

A non-issue.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

i would be careful what i labelled "understanding" there; this can be made to be self-serving quite easily i guess

iow the RCC "understood" that a heliocentric solar system was heresy too, right

Point being, concerning Biblical things: knowledge is available for everyone.

The understanding of the knowledge is ONLY given By God.

I know where "I" turn to for Understanding Scripture, and a very few claim the same.

Many openly reveal they rely on their own mind or an other mans mindful thoughts.
Their choice, not mine.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Hell ~ a Hot topic.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

A non-possibility from me.

A non-issue.

ha, but doesn't that basically define "denial?" :)