Love your enemies

[logabe]

I didn't ask you what spiritual forces you are talking about. I asked you what spiritual forces of evil I have been talking about. See your last sentence your reply #72.

Where have I said not to pray?

Stanger

​Physical swords, rifles, and pistols that you have been talking about. You said
​something like, If Muslims see me as an enemy, they are correct. I detected
​some hate in that statement.

​I could go on with some other things you said, but you get the point. All of these
​things come from the evil forces that in turn causes you to say things in the flesh,
​which doesn't represent Jesus' true character and nature according to the scriptures.

​These things being said and mixed with a little of the truth isn't truth @ all. We
have to speak the TRUTH IN LOVE​. So I forgive you and I hope God shows you
His Love and Mercy in a greater way, so you can experience the peace and the
​freedom that is in Jesus the Christ.

Logabe

 

[Stranger]

​Physical swords, rifles, and pistols that you have been talking about. You said
​something like, If Muslims see me as an enemy, they are correct. I detected
​some hate in that statement.

​I could go on with some other things you said, but you get the point. All of these
​things come from the evil forces that in turn causes you to say things in the flesh,
​which doesn't represent Jesus' true character and nature according to the scriptures.

​These things being said and mixed with a little of the truth isn't truth @ all. We
have to speak the TRUTH IN LOVE​. So I forgive you and I hope God shows you
His Love and Mercy in a greater way, so you can experience the peace and the
​freedom that is in Jesus the Christ.

Logabe

I have no problem hating Islam and the muslim. Islam and the muslim are enemies of God.

The spiritual warfare is fleshed out on earth in our physical existence. When (Ephesians 6:12) says "...we wrestle not against flesh and blood....", it means we certainly do recognize the spiritual war going on behind what we are experiencing, whether it be conflict with the world, the flesh, or the devil. And we avail ourselves to all our spiritual weapons of war given in (Eph.6:12-18).

But, having availed ourselves of our spiritual weapons, we then must put forth feet and hands towards whatever conflict we are going through. If one needs a job, he and others pray. But he doesn't sit at the house and wait till God answers. He goes out looking. Correct? Does that means he is being fleshly? If one needs money to eat, and you have it to give, do you you just pray for them or do you also give to them.

If your wife or girlfriend, who you have been praying for their protection in the dangerous world we live in, is assaulted on the street in front of you, what will you do? Pray to God for help? Or just watch her carried away? You have prayed for her safety, and you are in a position to help. Arn't you going to help? Of course you are, even though violence will be used. (unless your married to junobet)

I did not ask for your forgiveness as I don't believe I am wrong in what I am saying.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

funny to me--i certainly was not expecting it--that Muslims observe the Bible better than we do. I can't explain this, very well. I could post my observations, but how this has come to be escapes me. What little i do see, 3 against 2, and 2 against 3, is that there are 3 of us, Jewish, Christian, and Muslim, and any 2 are juxtaposed in a certain, exclusive way, not common to the relationship with the other one. Iow we are Christians, who are currently in a love affair with "Jews" (we think they are Jews, anyway, but of course they are not, not Sephardim at all), when Jews--those "Jews," anyway--of course view us as Gentiles, just like they view Muslims, it's the same thing to them, at the end of the day, and you can either see it or not, but trust me, Christian = Muslim to a "Jew..." anyway, you can contrast this with how Muslims view us, and them, which we know about the "them" part, they hate "them," but this is not understood in the context of "not Sephardim," of course, while they love us, which is also occluded, mostly by the MSM, who has done a great job of dividing us, in our common opinion Muslims, of course, "hate us" now, even if no one can witness any Muslim atrocities from the thousands of Muslims who surely live in their individual counties, now, or states, in America or wherever, there's surely a mosque within 10 miles of you, right now, but you rely on "News," from 180 degrees the other side of the planet, for your info on "Muslims," over there where we are funding both sides of Perpetual War, a "war on terror," like we have such a good track record in our other "wars," on poverty, or drugs, or whatever, and we don't realize that we are manifesting our hearts, what is in our hearts, whenever we talk about...anything, lol, and just for the record, you are proving that you have never even met a Muslim, if you think they hate you, at all, which by "met" i don't mean those accidental interactions at quickie marts ok.

So, we have the weirdest relationships going on; We love "Jews," Muslims love us, and Jews hate everyone else; in a sense. In another manner, We hate Muslims, now, and Jews hate Muslims, now (even though they used to babysit each other's kids, back in Jaffa, when they grew oranges together, before we got involved and, y'know, helped them out, with death and apartheid; plenty of Muslims got along just fine with Jews, then). And of course some Muslims have been turned to hate, but those are all on the news, and no one here can witness any atrocities done to them by the Muslims that surround them, right now, whereas most everyone can witness the other two hates, those being us and "Jews" hating Muslims, together, and posturing about who the "oppressed" are.

But if you ask about any evidence for "Jews" hating Christians, just like they "hate" Muslims, you get these blank looks, now, and no one remembers how Bibi talked about us back in the day, before they got hip on marketing and spin, even as we were stuffing his pockets full of money. Ha. And the best way to detect the truth, now, in this climate, is to see what pisses you off, i guess, to see what offends you.

the point being that i am not offended here, ok, i am not a Muslim. And if you are offended, well, then BAM just say so.

:)

 

[bbyrd009]

I have no problem hating Islam and the muslim. Islam and the muslim are enemies of God.

this has no support in Scripture, of course, and in fact directly goes against Scripture, in many places, because now you are hating people, Muslims, and not even trying to contest against a movement, Islam, which you would nevertheless get squashed in doing, anyway, as their Book plainly admits that Christ has come in the flesh-

-even though you diminish this, with some retarded drivel that you picked up, when someone put it down, and show that you are programmed to hate, and believe only what your eyes see, and trust implicitly in the seen-

-and instructs every Muslim to "follow Christ, or be doomed," and the Bible plainly states "any spirit that admits that Christ has come in the flesh is from God," neverminding that the Crusades, also, should be telling you something, but of course, you don't want to hear that, either, do you, you are too busy justifying your hate, are you not. So of course you do not seek forgiveness, or think you are wrong. You eschew forgiveness, whenever it is offered, because you of course hate forgiveness, just like Trump does; same spirit going on there. See what you will see, and proclaim it from the roof, then.

The fig tree (sycamore) has been uprooted, and the cedar tree is now planted, and you are clapping hysterically. Ok.

 

[Stranger]

this has no support in Scripture, of course, and in fact directly goes against Scripture, in many places, because now you are hating people, Muslims, and not even trying to contest against a movement, Islam, which you would nevertheless get squashed in doing, anyway, as their Book plainly admits that Christ has come in the flesh-

-even though you diminish this, with some retarded drivel that you picked up, when someone put it down, and show that you are programmed to hate, and believe only what your eyes see, and trust implicitly in the seen-

-and instructs every Muslim to "follow Christ, or be doomed," and the Bible plainly states "any spirit that admits that Christ has come in the flesh is from God," neverminding that the Crusades, also, should be telling you something, but of course, you don't want to hear that, either, do you, you are too busy justifying your hate, are you not. So of course you do not seek forgiveness, or think you are wrong. You eschew forgiveness, whenever it is offered, because you of course hate forgiveness, just like Trump does; same spirit going on there. See what you will see, and proclaim it from the roof, then.

The fig tree (sycamore) has been uprooted, and the cedar tree is now planted, and you are clapping hysterically. Ok.

Islam is an enemy of God. Thus an enemy of mine. They are in opposition to God. Thus I have no love for them, and have no problem hating them. If you want to discuss what Islam is then start another thread. I will gladly join in.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Islam is an enemy of God. Thus an enemy of mine. They are in opposition to God. Thus I have no love for them, and have no problem hating them. If you want to discuss what Islam is then start another thread. I will gladly join in.

Stranger

A rope of three cords is not easily broken. Ergo, Islam is most certainly from God, just as all the other religions, that are not, have fallen by the wayside. After all, you do not contend with Mithraists, or Horists, or whatever, now, do you. You do not argue with any followers of Zeus. And what i say, that Muslims are better Christians than many Christians, might also be true. But you would have to actually meet some to know, i guess. And that is all i have to say about Muslims, and Islam.

If you want to discuss the "no love" problem, which might be related to the "trusting in only the seen" issue (oh Thomas, my friend), indicated by the "mythology is not how we got Genesis" thing (distinctly similar to any discussion that one might have with most any atheist, btw) then just say so, right here on this thread, which is, ostensibly, about loving one's enemies, even if you have made it plain that you hate your enemies, and you are proud of it. I understand.

I'm curious when the "The Bible is not the Word" debate got had, here, since the subject has come up, now? I've searched, but can't find it. This is the first forum i have found this on. Any chance you could give me a link? Anyone? Ty

 

[Stranger]

A rope of three cords is not easily broken. Ergo, Islam is most certainly from God, just as all the other religions, that are not, have fallen by the wayside. After all, you do not contend with Mithraists, or Horists, or whatever, now, do you. You do not argue with any followers of Zeus. And what i say, that Muslims are better Christians than many Christians, might also be true. But you would have to actually meet some to know, i guess. And that is all i have to say about Muslims, and Islam.

If you want to discuss the "no love" problem, which might be related to the "trusting in only the seen" issue (oh Thomas, my friend), indicated by the "mythology is not how we got Genesis" thing (distinctly similar to any discussion that one might have with most any atheist, btw) then just say so, right here on this thread, which is, ostensibly, about loving one's enemies, even if you have made it plain that you hate your enemies, and you are proud of it. I understand.

I'm curious when the "The Bible is not the Word" debate got had, here, since the subject has come up, now? I've searched, but can't find it. This is the first forum i have found this on. Any chance you could give me a link? Anyone? Ty

Islam is not from God. muslims are in no way to be compared to Christians. muhammed, the koran, shariah law, are all straight out of hell. It is a doctrine and people directly opposed to God.

I will contend with any who put forth a lying doctrine such as islam does.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Islam is not from God. muslims are in no way to be compared to Christians. muhammed, the koran, shariah law, are all straight out of hell. It is a doctrine and people directly opposed to God.

I will contend with any who put forth a lying doctrine such as islam does.

Stranger

Stranger, you are just repeating yourself now, and i want you to understand something, if you would; right now we are just talking, and you are just espousing a very popular American Christian pov at the moment, one that i find repeated on most every Christian forum--though not one where "The Bible is not the Word" is not also disputed, i must admit; but i'll figure out what's going on there in the morning, maybe--and rarely disputed. And wadr the insistent repetition, and the lack of Witness from Scripture, or the lack of reply to the Witnesses i have provided, is also rarely remarked upon, and should be considered. By you, i mean, because anyone else reading this is considering that, already, ok.

And i would like you to see, if possible, that being as how that is the climate, and those dynamics currently apply here, i have absolutely no reason to be writing this post, ok, from a standpoint of possibly coming out the victor, between me and you. So i am writing this for a single reason, which is you, and your salvation. See, a time is going to come--unlike now, where we are just positing our views--when people who have had their childrens' weddings drone-bombed are going to be pointing a finger, right at you, and saying

"that man, Stranger, paid for the bomb that killed my child, and then bragged about it on the net,"

assuming that you pay taxes, etc, and the web thing is already pretty obvious. So see that what i am doing here is allowing you the opportunity to respond to this now, while it is just conversation, rather than be blind-sided then, when you are in court, and the charge is murder, unrepentant murder, ok, and you can't utter a word, because it is all right there, hanging in the air, the truth, that you will not be able to refute.

Now, let's see...Texas? Hmm, i'm from Tx, too, and you don't get any more specific than that, and whereas i usually would have spent the $30 and had your SSN, address, phone numbers, the whole bit, by now, so i wouldn't have to guess your county, we'll just go with Harris County, for an example...where you got something like 150,000 Muslims. Surrounding you, all practicing Sharia Law, or not, because of course it is voluntary, and now it is time for you to witness the last interaction you had with a Muslim on a social level, and mention any highlights or lowlights that occurred, if you would, ty.

So, even just pick one of those, those three, either address the verses that i have brought to Witness, or pick one of those two things there, and reply, while you still can, ok.

 

[Stranger]

bbyrd009

I have to repeat myself because you don't listen.

Don't worry about my salvation, that is secure in Jesus Christ. Not the so called 'christ' of islam. The Christ that lives. The Christ of the Bible.

War is hell. No one is bragging, but acknowledging the necessity of it. If islam doesn't want to get bombed then they should consider not cutting peoples heads off. I have no sympathy for them at all.

Shariah law is not voluntary. It is illegal. There is only one law here in the U.S. If you don't like it, leave. I don't have to interact with a muslim. I know already their beliefs and what they are, and I don't like them. As I said, they are in opposition to God.

What verses? Reply while I still can? Please. I do not fear you or islam. If you want to support islam, go ahead. But so far you have offered nothing to defend them with. You rant and rave but offer no substance.

So, tell me, why do you love islam?

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why did God not say to Israel, when they were to enter the promised land, to love your enemies?

Stranger

Stranger, that was the old covenant of man's working to attempt to cover himself. The Law shows man could not fulfill the law to perfection therefore man stood condemn by the Law. Israel and every thing God was teaching was of the flesh and the corruption of it. But the New Testament is Spirit. It is the deeds of the flesh of man that we hate. Gods perfection was in instructing to hate the enemy, destroy the enemy, spoil the enemy. Which He did...on the cross.

Ephesians 6:11-12
[11] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places .

Hebrews 2:13-15
[13] And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. [14] Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; [15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Christ crucified the flesh and we move into a new covenant of, now consider this: to look on a woman with lust in your heart and you sin. Hate your brother and think of murder, you are guilty of murder. Jesus taught this change from Old Testament to the New Testament in that now we are to love (flesh and blood)the natural less than those Spiritual brethren that do the will of God. Why? We are under Spirit and ruled by The Spirit, not ruled by the flesh. He shows this by the commands of our natural kin becoming less that our Spiritual kin. He who loses mother and father, sister or brother....gains abundantly is Spiritual brothers and sisters. Flesh is reduced for the way of the Spirit. "let the dead bury the dead".
We also saw this in John the Baptist which said: I must decrease so He can increase.

Galatians 1:16-17
[16] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: [17] Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

The enemy is not flesh and blood any longer. The flesh is dead and holds no power over us. It is crucified. We are to love our enemies. We are no longer under the bondage of flesh but serve the Spirit and have this command from our Heavenly Father:

Matthew 5:44-48
[44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Why?

Romans 5:8
[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[bbyrd009]

6You love your enemies and hate those who love you!

 

[lforrest]

6You love your enemies and hate those who love you!

When is the last time you challanged your presupposition that Islam is compatable with the gospel? Which text do you consider infallible?

There is an inevitable deflection coming, so Ill state my presuppositions that I did not lay aside when learning the bible, they include:

1. Jesus is God
2. The bible is true, and the inspired word of God.
3. Some basic knowledge.

 

[Helen]

This looks like an interesting thread. Imust take a better look.
I’m just posting here so that it will show up in my Alerta.
(I’m at work today)

 

[bbyrd009]

When is the last time you challanged your presupposition that Islam is compatable with the gospel?

oh, i would agree right now that political or established Islam is not compatible with the Gospel; same as est'd Christianity

Which text do you consider infallible?

well, "infallible" is not a term i would even apply to "text," but to answer as well as i am able within those confines, any text written in my language, that does not need to be translated by other men i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

There is an inevitable deflection coming, so Ill state my presuppositions that I did not lay aside when learning the bible, they include:

1. Jesus is God
2. The bible is true, and the inspired word of God.
3. Some basic knowledge.

inevitable, lol, ya.
1. um, where you say "Jesus is God," i acknowledge "God is the head of Christ," so hopefully we are close enough there to remain in the same room lol; you might contemplate that i can Quote mine directly, whereas at best you must rely on the perspective of someone who has not been vetted in Scripture; meaning that i could say "my Lord and my God" to a post if i so desired, and writing that into a Book does not make the Son of Man into God, but rather reflects the perceptions of the one who said it.
2. the Bible is true in the original, and God~Breathed to the one who wrote it down; unfortunately no one on earth can read ancient Hebrew very well, many terms are admitted to be educated guesses, and there are several (known) outright mistranslations. Many believers are surely convinced that talents have something to do with natural abilities, etc

God's "Word" works just like your word--unless word no longer means word anyway--and we even have Scripture to the effect "they heard the Word, and then went and studied the Scriptures to verify it."

and you might notice that i capitalize "Word" there bc It came from Christ, Whom i don't believe was God, but you could be characterized here as doubting Christ by refusing to acknowledge the diff in Word and Scripture (or "writings" anyway).
tbh this is a small thing to me, but once i heard Word i just could no longer call the Book the Word. Word requires breath imo; no breath, no word.

calling the Bible Word to me now = "i have never heard Word."
3. imo we are ill-equipped to be implying that we know much of anything Forrest, although i get you. But understand that i am reading a guy saying he has some basic knowledge who cannot find over 95% of what we know must exist in Creation. A scant 100 years ago that was like 99%. And i suspect that of the 5% that is known, most of it is taught to us by ppl with an agenda, and is therefore basically worthless; 10-90% true, or whatever. i could provide examples here for the rest of the day; "dollars are money," etc

 

[Stranger]

Stranger, that was the old covenant of man's working to attempt to cover himself. The Law shows man could not fulfill the law to perfection therefore man stood condemn by the Law. Israel and every thing God was teaching was of the flesh and the corruption of it. But the New Testament is Spirit. It is the deeds of the flesh of man that we hate. Gods perfection was in instructing to hate the enemy, destroy the enemy, spoil the enemy. Which He did...on the cross.

Ephesians 6:11-12
[11] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places .

Hebrews 2:13-15
[13] And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. [14] Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; [15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Christ crucified the flesh and we move into a new covenant of, now consider this: to look on a woman with lust in your heart and you sin. Hate your brother and think of murder, you are guilty of murder. Jesus taught this change from Old Testament to the New Testament in that now we are to love (flesh and blood)the natural less than those Spiritual brethren that do the will of God. Why? We are under Spirit and ruled by The Spirit, not ruled by the flesh. He shows this by the commands of our natural kin becoming less that our Spiritual kin. He who loses mother and father, sister or brother....gains abundantly is Spiritual brothers and sisters. Flesh is reduced for the way of the Spirit. "let the dead bury the dead".
We also saw this in John the Baptist which said: I must decrease so He can increase.

Galatians 1:16-17
[16] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: [17] Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

The enemy is not flesh and blood any longer. The flesh is dead and holds no power over us. It is crucified. We are to love our enemies. We are no longer under the bondage of flesh but serve the Spirit and have this command from our Heavenly Father:

Matthew 5:44-48
[44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Why?

Romans 5:8
[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Are you saying the Old Covenant was from man and not God? Who gave the 'Old Covenant'? Man or God? If the Old Covenant, and I believe you mean the Mosaic Covenant, was from God, how is it not Spirit? The Old Covenant was as much Spirit as the New Covenant.

Yes, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ totally defeated the enemy. But, the enemy doesn't care and doesn't acknowledge that defeat. If that were so, why do we still wage spiritual warfare? One can live in a utopian dream all they want, that all is peace and love at this time, but that is a lie of the devil.

You have made (Matt. 5-7) the 'laws' of the New Covenant. You have moved those under the Mosaic Law, under a more stricter Law found in (Matt. 5-7). So, I ask you, how is that 'grace'? Telling me that if I just look upon a woman to have her is sin though I actually don't do it. Telling me that if I wanted to kill this person is sin though not actually doing it. That's not grace. That is a more severe law.

Yes, we are under the laws of the Spirit of grace in Christ Jesus. We are not under the Mosaic Law of the past . And, we are not under the Law of the Kingdom which is yet future, which is found in the Sermon on the Mount, (Matt. 5-7).

OK. You say the enemy is not flesh and blood and we are to love our enemies. Do you love satan? Do you love the enemy and his angels who are against you and Jesus Christ? Is that supposed to be a true Christian, one who loves the enemies of God? One better. Does God or Christ love satan and his rebellious angels? If I want to be like God and perfect, then should God love all his enemies including satan, and I do the same?

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

6You love your enemies and hate those who love you!

what i found interesting about this v is that it is the only return for a search of "love your enemies" OT, and the chapter ends up being a commentary on the previous posts

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Are you saying the Old Covenant was from man and not God? Who gave the 'Old Covenant'? Man or God? If the Old Covenant, and I believe you mean the Mosaic Covenant, was from God, how is it not Spirit? The Old Covenant was as much Spirit as the New Covenant.

If that is what it sounded like I was saying, then I am sorry. I was wrong. This is what I meant:

Flesh:
Genesis 17:10-11
[10] This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. [11] And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Spirit:
Colossians 2:11
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

OK. You say the enemy is not flesh and blood and we are to love our enemies. Do you love satan? Do you love the enemy and his angels who are against you and Jesus Christ? Is that supposed to be a true Christian, one who loves the enemies of God? One better. Does God or Christ love satan and his rebellious angels? If I want to be like God and perfect, then should God love all his enemies including satan, and I do the same?

I don't know; you tell me?

Jude 1:9
[9] Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Self-righteous acts of love may make you want to vomit. But there is also self-righteous acts of hatred that are no different than working to earn God's grace.

Romans 12:19-21
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. [20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.


Romans 13:8-10
[8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. [9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

It is either true or it is not???

 

[lforrest]

oh, i would agree right now that political or established Islam is not compatible with the Gospel; same as est'd Christianity

well, "infallible" is not a term i would even apply to "text," but to answer as well as i am able within those confines, any text written in my language, that does not need to be translated by other men i guess

If we go back to the early life of Muhammad he was introduced to Christianity when it was spreading in Mecca. But it was not monotheistic enough. The Quran repeatedly denies that that God has a son. The Bible teaches that Jesus is God's only begotten son.

The bible was translated, yes so there is a disconnect between witness and reader. The Quran also has a disconnect, as it was was transcribed by Mohammed for an angel. Yet the bible has four separate witnesses, which people may think gives it less credibility due to the differences between them. I believe it gives it more credibility.

inevitable, lol, ya.
1. um, where you say "Jesus is God," i acknowledge "God is the head of Christ," so hopefully we are close enough there to remain in the same room lol; you might contemplate that i can Quote mine directly, whereas at best you must rely on the perspective of someone who has not been vetted in Scripture; meaning that i could say "my Lord and my God" to a post if i so desired, and writing that into a Book does not make the Son of Man into God, but rather reflects the perceptions of the one who said it.
2. the Bible is true in the original, and God~Breathed to the one who wrote it down; unfortunately no one on earth can read ancient Hebrew very well, many terms are admitted to be educated guesses, and there are several (known) outright mistranslations. Many believers are surely convinced that talents have something to do with natural abilities, etc

God's "Word" works just like your word--unless word no longer means word anyway--and we even have Scripture to the effect "they heard the Word, and then went and studied the Scriptures to verify it."

and you might notice that i capitalize "Word" there bc It came from Christ, Whom i don't believe was God, but you could be characterized here as doubting Christ by refusing to acknowledge the diff in Word and Scripture (or "writings" anyway).
tbh this is a small thing to me, but once i heard Word i just could no longer call the Book the Word. Word requires breath imo; no breath, no word.

calling the Bible Word to me now = "i have never heard Word."
3. imo we are ill-equipped to be implying that we know much of anything Forrest, although i get you. But understand that i am reading a guy saying he has some basic knowledge who cannot find over 95% of what we know must exist in Creation. A scant 100 years ago that was like 99%. And i suspect that of the 5% that is known, most of it is taught to us by ppl with an agenda, and is therefore basically worthless; 10-90% true, or whatever. i could provide examples here for the rest of the day; "dollars are money," etc

1. We could perhaps stay in the same room if we were on the same planet. You carried the presuppositions of Islam with you, and so you can not believe that Jesus is more than a servant of God.

2. And what of the NT, which is easier to translate from the Greek? Do you believe the Quran says its words will be preserved? But you do not think that true of the Bible which you agree was inspired, though only in the original form.

I am not worried about saying Scriptures are the Word of God. They offer those who can see it, a picture of Jesus, like a collage.

3. Basic knowledge need not be contested when it has no bearing on a discussion. Do you dispute Jesus is Jewish? Grass is green? or water is wet?

 

[Stranger]

If that is what it sounded like I was saying, then I am sorry. I was wrong. This is what I meant:

Flesh:
Genesis 17:10-11
[10] This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. [11] And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Spirit:
Colossians 2:11
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:



I don't know; you tell me?

Jude 1:9
[9] Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Self-righteous acts of love may make you want to vomit. But there is also self-righteous acts of hatred that are no different than working to earn God's grace.

Romans 12:19-21
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. [20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.


Romans 13:8-10
[8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. [9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

It is either true or it is not???

Have you read all the posts in this thread? I would encourage you to do so, if you haven't. See my post #36.

I do not believe you should divide the Bible as if the Old Testament represents the flesh and the New Testament represents the Spirit. The giving of the law was by the Spirit of God. You find the Spirit throughout the Old Testament. You will find spiritual people of God throughout the Old Testament.

Also, it is not right to divide the Bible as if the Old Testament represents law and the New Testament represents grace. For grace is found throughout the Old Testament, and you will find commandments that Christ has given His people in the New.

The law was given to regulate the Israelite in his relations to God and to other Israelites. Circumcision was a sign of the Abrahamic Covenant (Gen. 17) and later given as law to Israel. (Ex. 4:25) (Ex. 12:48) (Lev. 12:4) It was an outward sign that demonstrated a right spirit toward God. In other words, (Col. 2:11) was true for the Israelite also though Christ had not yet come. It pointed to a greater work of the Spirit in the life of the believing Jew.

Concerning our enemy, satan, God's enemy, no we are not to love satan. We are involved in a spiritual warfare, arn't we? So, how can we fight a spiritual warfare and love the enemy at the same time? Now, in our daily lives, we will come in conflict in areas where we do yield and do not seek any vengeance against one who has wronged us. We take the wrong done and give it to God. We do this as much as possible. (Rom. 12:18) "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. "

Concerning (Rom. 12:19-21) you will note this is a quote from (Deut. 32:35-36). All of which was preparatory for Israel entering the land and encountering war with the enemy of God. All of which was spiritual also. God was coming against the gods of the Canaanites whose cities were fenced up to heaven. Which I believe points to the spiritual opposition.

So, yes the verses you give are true. But we do not act on them to the degree that they are not true. If someone attacks my family, do I let them have them and just give it to God? How is that loving my family? Do I love my enemy more than my family so I let him do with them want he wants? How far are you willing to go to observe your interpretation of loving your enemies?

It wasn't long ago in the news that some poor girl came out of church and literally gouged her eyes out. Why? I'm sure it was due to the preaching on (Matt. 5:29). And for a church to send that type of message, it would have been very legalistic in nature. So already condemnation was probably built up in her. No doubt in my mind that the speaker in the pulpit used these laws of the kingdom to create guilt and condemnation in his people.

So, you can say with (Matt. 5:29), it is either true or it is not. The young girl certainly believed it and was honest in her guilt. Should she have gouged her eyes out?

Stranger