FHll,
re: "It later occurred to me that you may have meant something else. It may have been you didn't believe saturday shouldn't count either since it is possible that Jesus may have risen before the day ended.
Yes, that is what I was getting at if you change "shouldn't" to "should". Logically if a portion of the 4th calendar day of the week shouldn't be counted then a portion of the 7th calendar day of the week also shouldn't be counted.
I agree with you logic, but it doesnt matter what we think is logical. Let me eloborate:
In discussions and debates on the passion week timeline, those that belief in the traditional Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection often state: "Its common knowledge that 3 days and 3 nights is a well known Hebrew idiom". I have heard that from members on this board, debates on other boards going back at least 15 years and even John Calvin and Martin Luther claimed that.
I was never satisfied with that claim. I have never seen proof of that being a well known idiom. Certainly not in the Bible. I have heard that Josephus used it as an idiom, but haven't examined that particular text myself.
If it is an idiom, then the traditional belief might be right. It doesn't peove the point, but it allows an opening. But if its not an idiom, then it completely destroys the traditional timeline (that of a Friday crucifixion and Sunday ressurection).
My main objective in this thread is to discuss whether it is an Hebrew idiom or not. The main objective is not to debate the timeline of rhe passuon week. That is a secondary objective.
I stress again: is it a
hebrew idiom? Well, based on how the hebrews see a fast: it is not. Second, based on the testimony of this Rabbi: it is not.
It really doesn't matter what we think of their beliefs or how they see idioms. Jesus was speaking as a Jew/Hebrew to Jews and hebrews. So, in figuring out what he meant, we must follow their rules of language.
So getting away drom the timeline ddebate just for a moment, do you have any proof that 3 days and 3 nights is an idiom? If so, why is this Rabbi wrong when he says its not an idiom?
Getting back to the timeline issue, he also feels that Wednesday doesn't count but Saturday does. Thus, I tend to believe thats how the Jews see it.