Jesus never said he was God Almighty

[Helen]

I once made a covenant with my mouth to stop cussing. The day after, I was worse than I ever was before. A thought in my head said "You are not His! If you were His, He would have helped you keep your covenant."

Firstly , thank you so much for taking the time to explain how and where you are on this issue. Excellent post and well written for my old brain.
I enjoy posts which "have the heart" of the poster within them.

I agree with you on vows. When I was a young new Christian I heard a word shared about being rash with out mouth in making promises to God.
The word was from Judges 11
30 "And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,
Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering."
We know the story...his daughter came out of his house first to greet him!!
That vow was obviously not 'led of the Lord.'
As the Lord said in Matt 5
"I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
Since then, I never have .
And yes..agree, we must always check with the Holy Spirit to show us the false and the true. Watchman Nee said that for him , when he we 'checked' with the Lord in confirmation of an issue.....if it was 'of God', his spirit rose within him..if it was of the Devil his inner man withdraw and shrunk back.

<snip>
called everybody forward in saying he did not know what the Holy Spirit was doing and people came forward and began falling down laughing uncontrollably. 700 Club announced that the holy laughter movement was across the denomination as it was no longer a streamlined Pentecostal/Charismatic event, but happening in Catholic and other Protestant churches.

Oh I too can say.." Been there and done that too"
Because we were instantly very sceptical of all this...we knew we could not condemn it without going to a meeting or two for ourself.
We went. To me it was chaos. We knew the pastor and wife of the church well. One guy was shaking and acting really strange and drawing everyones attention..as they prayed over him.
I went to them afterward and quietly said. "You do know that young _name_ was not having a lovely God experience, what happened with him was a demonic reaction to your prayers..." ( sadly they did not agree!)
My hubby and I were in the deliverance ministry ( casting out of demons) for 5 years... we learned a thing or two back then.
I agree with you...there was " another spirit" driving that wave through the Churches at that time...plus a lot of flesh works and emotions. The foolish and thrill seekers will always be easily be lead astray.
The Lord know those who are His..but sadly " woe unto the pastors who lead sheep astray"!!
We agree totally on that one.
I loved Dave Wilkerson, great man.. we had his news letter for years.
As I do not like long post ever...I will continue on a new one.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Firstly , thank you so much for taking the time to explain how and where you are on this issue. Excellent post and well written for my old brain.
I enjoy posts which "have the heart" of the poster within them.

Whether it is true or not about your old brain, it is the Lord that enables us to hear and receive His words by understanding His words. Only God can cause the increase. I cannot. It is not by the persuasion of a man's speech, but by the Spirit's power. I am sure you would agree with that as well.

I agree with you on vows. When I was a young new Christian I heard a word shared about being rash with out mouth in making promises to God.
The word was from Judges 11
30 "And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,
Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering."
We know the story...his daughter came out of his house first to greet him!!
That vow was obviously not 'led of the Lord.'
As the Lord said in Matt 5
"I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
Since then, I never have .
And yes..agree, we must always check with the Holy Spirit to show us the false and the true. Watchman Nee said that for him , when he we 'checked' with the Lord in confirmation of an issue.....if it was 'of God', his spirit rose within him..if it was of the Devil his inner man withdraw and shrunk back.

I have heard of Watchman Nee but I cannot recall him just now, but I would say as I would say to anyone including me, that each believer has to confirm the word in proving all things because leaders can go wrong sometimes as we are to also test the spirits with His help at that throne of grace.

Oh I too can say.." Been there and done that too"
Because we were instantly very sceptical of all this...we knew we could not condemn it without going to a meeting or two for ourself.
We went. To me it was chaos. We knew the pastor and wife of the church well. One guy was shaking and acting really strange and drawing everyones attention..as they prayed over him.
I went to them afterward and quietly said. "You do know that young _name_ was not having a lovely God experience, what happened with him was a demonic reaction to your prayers..." ( sadly they did not agree!)
My hubby and I were in the deliverance ministry ( casting out of demons) for 5 years... we learned a thing or two back then.
I agree with you...there was " another spirit" driving that wave through the Churches at that time...plus a lot of flesh works and emotions. The foolish and thrill seekers will always be easily be lead astray.
The Lord know those who are His..but sadly " woe unto the pastors who lead sheep astray"!!
We agree totally on that one.
I loved Dave Wilkerson, great man.. we had his news letter for years.
As I do not like long post ever...I will continue on a new one.

Sorry for the long post. At least the Lord is leading you to read it through regardless.

As I have said .. although the Lord used David Wilkerson in establishing the testimony about the role of the Holy Ghost by the scripture in one of his newsletter, the Lord helped me to note his comment about disappointing thrill seekers for coming to his service is because David talks like them when asking for the Holy Spirit to be sent to the worship place where at other times he would say he felt His Presence in the worship place.

That's him forgetting what he was led by the Lord about the role of the Holy Spirit because he said the Holy Spirit would never draw attention to Himself in the worship place but keeps pointing believers to go to the Son in worship. He even made the comment that only seducing spirits would draw attention to themselves in the worship place but the indwelling Holy Spirit never will.

So I can understand his wonderment for why thrill seekers are coming to his service because he speaks of the same rudiment that they seek their thrills by. He is not aware how what he shares about feeling the Holy Spirit in the worship place actually goes against what he says to do in testing the spirits as the real indwelling Holy Spirit is in them and the spirit of the antichrist dwells outside of us.

We can't get closer to the Holy Spirit than He already is by dwelling within us and only seducing spirits would draw attention to themselves by taking our eyes off of Christ Jesus in worship to seeking their presence by a visitation they can see and feel.

David Wilkerson had made some prophesy that did not come true by which I believe this practice is how he was led astray by the spirit of error.

This is why we are to prove everything by Him as He is our Good Shepherd, and not Watchman Nee nor David Wilkerson nor me even.

Each believer can trust Jesus Christ to help them see the truth, even if it is something they do not want to see because they are trusting Him to help them to discern iniquity to depart from it when their desire is to serve Him in seeking His glory like His disciples should and nothing else in His name.

 

[Helen]

<snip>
We are called to be witnesses of the Son in seeking His glory as led by the Spirit of God in us to do. ( John 15:26-27 & John 16:13-14 ) The only way to honor the Father in worship and fellowship and prayer is by honoring the Son ( John 5:22-23 ); not the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is sent to lead us to honor the Son by testifying of Him in seeking the glory of the Son and by Him, the glory of God the Father. ( John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-13 ) There is no way in coming to God the Father in worship other than by way of the Son ( John 14:6 ) and Jesus meant it because there are other spirits in the world for why all invitations to come to the Father is by the only way of the Son in all things.

I agree.

So I know that what you are experiencing is real, but you are not realizing that you are serving something else in His name when you do that when that kind of tongue is always associated with departing from faith in seeking to receive Him again by a sign of tongue and as others do by other signs.

Sorry you lost me a bit there. I don't "receive Him again". Maybe some say that I don't but I do believe that there is a quickening of the Spirit when I stop doing daily chores and quietly wait on the Lord. I am sure you experience that too. A refreshing from the Lord. Where the mind gets quiet and we are more conscious of His realm than ours.

You do not need tongues to pray to Him. The Holy Spirit does not need tongues to make His unspeakable intercessions known to the Father.

You do not need tongues for edification when you have the written word of the KJV available for your edification.

You do not need tongues for worship when it is better to know you are worshiping Him.

You do not need tongues to thank Him when you do not know if you are doing that at all when it comes with no interpretation. Would it not be more pleasing to the Father when YOU thank Him and know that You thank Him rather than thinking that the Holy Spirit is doing it for you ( which He is not )

I can say , yes I agree I do not "need". But "for me" When God has given me something, a vehicle in which He Himself can take over my tongue and pray for 'some _name here_' for whatever need they have, that I do not know about , because God has not shown me the deeper workings or needs of that persons heart. I do them a great disfavour if I do not pray in God wisdom rather than my pathetic words maybe saying- " Lord I have this person on my heart, I feel You nudging me to pray for them, I have no idea why, or what about...but I leave it with You."
For me, no. I can spend an hour praying in tongues..( we that do this always know when the Holy Spirit has finished and has lifted.)..for this persons need.
I believe it is of the Lord and He directs this. I must do what I feel God has told me to do, just as you do as God has led you.
And Yes, obviously , more than in tongues we pray in our own language and words. Not every prayer is in tongues, unless the Lord directs.

I do strongly disagree with the churches which teach that unless a person speaks in tongues they have not received The Holy Spirit. That is false..and condemning. But nevertheless some teach it , but in my experience I have not found this correct. I know lots of Spirit filled and led people who have not spoken in tongues.

I pray that the Lord will help you to serve Him and nothing else in His name; to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ & not the gospel of praying tongues.

Well I can promise you I do not preach 'the gospel of praying in tongues'.
I find that nowhere in the bible. In fact I don't often bring up the subject, unless someone else does, then I will respond.
For too many it is like a red rag to a bull. Each of us is responsible to hear and do as God directs us.

Christ, and Him crucified.

Thank you for your post. Good talking to you. This seems to be the only subject that we differ on , thus far, maybe along the way we will find more.
I am not "main-line" for sure.. and that does annoy some people.

May God richly bless you and yours...Helen

 

[bbyrd009]

it is the Lord that enables us to hear and receive His words by understanding His words.

oh, it is by God that ppl get strong delusions too i guess, so this "my understanding = God's understanding" thing doesn't hold too much water imo. We got whole chapters dedicated to "confounding the wise" i think

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Tongues was never taught by any one in the N.T. for private use

1 Corinthians 14:15
I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

Are you saying you can only pray in church?

1 Corinthians 14:18
I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

1 Corinthians 14:22
28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

Paul is not saying to not utter it at, just not in church. Why? Because speaking in tongues edifies YOURSELF. John MacArthur twists those verses about self edification into something negative and selfish.

let alone how to discern what mode it is in when you have 3 kinds of modes for it; one for self edification; one for worship, and one for the Holy Spirit making intercessions to God,

At least you know more than John MacArthur.

Yes, good point.

1. Self edification - Jude 1:20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Self edification is building your spirit up and your relationship with the Spirit. That doesn't just happen by faith, but by exercising praying in the Holy Spirit - which prays God's perfect will in regards to yourself, others in intercession, and the world. Whether you know the interpretation or not, is not the point. That being said, it is even more beneficial to know what you are saying, so Paul tells us to pray for interpretation. But that is only if the Holy Spirit allows you to know by giving you the interpretation. You said "For God to give tongues and no interpretation for it to that tongue speaker for private use is not an act of God's love at all, and so it cannot be of Him." Sometimes our mind couldn't handle what God's will is. That could be because of the pain of pruning. As humans, we don't want any pain at all, but God knows the benefits of pruning, and us encountering various trials. "All things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called, according to His purpose."

2. Worship (praise) Acts 2:11 we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”
I would like to point out that each heard them speaking. That would be like three disciple speaking supernaturally Russian, French and German, respectively; but a Parthian heard them all speaking his language, an Elamite heard them all speaking his language, and an Arab, heard them all speaking his language. The hearing was supernatural also! Not natural as John MacArthur says, thus for the purpose of preaching. No! Supernatural - verse 6 "everyone heard them speak in his own language." These were already God's people, so were eligible to receive. Note, the mockers were not. What is the difference? The secrets of the heart.

3. Intercession for ourselves and others. Romans 8: Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. (see no. 1)

When the world has that same kind of tongue gained by spirits coming over them.... then in no way would God make that extra phenomenon a part of the life of a believer because that would be giving another calling and moving them away from their rest in Jesus Christ as if they are not complete in Him when they had received the holy Spirit of promise by faith in Jesus Christ when they had been saved.

Your are referring to 1 John 4:1-6, of course, and completely whether by ignorance, or intention, twisted scripture regarding false prophets onto those filled with the Holy Spirit who practice the gifts given them by the HOLY SPIRIT, and equating Him with the devil.

To equate tongues to the fall and rise as the sign of Jesus is not wise when His words would reprove using that as an allegory for that purpose.

Tongues is not Jesus, nor is Jesus, tongues. But they are both under the same type of sign. "A sign which will be spoken against." And verse 21 is the key to equating this sign of tongues, to the sign of Jesus.

(Will finish later perhaps...I'm hungry.) I hope you are learning something. But if not for you, maybe someone who is hungry for truth, and not twists and turns of the false prophets in the Church. They should have been kicked out long ago, but these tares among the pure grain, WILL have their day in the fire.

 

[bbyrd009]

Okay, I translate what you just wrote to say "What if "I don't think you can quote 'Holy Bible' except in English" makes no sense to you, then it's probably better if we don't talk anyway, might even be a sign, God warning you or something, protecting you maybe. No sin in that I guess.

awesome, maybe tomorrow you will find something else!

 

[APAK]

I said nothing about "purpose".
Of course Everything God does or exacts has a specific purpose.

No contention there.

Disagree about what Scripture refers exclusively to God, "being not plentiful in scripture".

Mighty, Light, Redeemer, High Priest, Holy One, Everlasting, Eternal, Spirit, Savior, Creator, Maker, Lord, God, Almighty, Father, Son, Power, Provider, I Am, Jehovah, Yahweh, Love, and on and on.

One "single" MAN is called BY several or numerous "names" and "titles".
It does not make the "MAN", multiple men, any more than it makes "GOD", multiple gods.



Yes, that IS the point. And so also it is the point that is A "likeness" humans (the created), mimic God, (the creator) who also does the same.

What He elects To CALL Himself AT Any given Time, IS at His Pleasure.



Yes.

The Lord doesn't have to claim He is God.



This point I would say could be a study unto its own.

He acknowledges attributes of God.



Consistently testifying of Who, What God IS, and What He accomplishes and HOW.

He reveals information about Himself, that others can hear and see.




Reveals the HOW, is VIA His Power, is VIA His Word/ Truth.

Reveals His Power is Christ.
Reveals His Truth is Jesus.
Reveals His Way is Jesus.
Reveals man is accomplished IN God, Acceptable TO God; By and Through His Power, His Word of Truth...is His Way.

God Bless,
Taken

Taken, you take a very liberal and creative approach to whom you consider God, by using his many purposeful attributes and they are not necessarily his limited number of titles.

Just because someone such has Jesus or even me or you use possesses or aligns with some of the attributes of God does not make us God. What religion is this?

You have invented a fail-safe way of saying Jesus = God for every attribute/or in any mode of God Jesus uses. You know I will never agree with you on this fantasy. You really believe that God reveals his power IS Christ. Really, 'IS'?? Now if you said THROUGH Jesus, then that is biblical. Are you a Oneness/modalist believer then?

I have to admit it is pretty creative, but DEAD wrong.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[aspen]

Taken, you take a very liberal and creative approach to whom you consider God, by using his many purposeful attributes and they are not necessarily his limited number of titles.

Just because someone such has Jesus or even me or you use possesses or aligns with some of the attributes of God does not make us God. What religion is this?

You have invented a fail-safe way of saying Jesus = God for every attribute/or in any mode of God Jesus uses. You know I will never agree with you on this fantasy. You really believe that God reveals his power IS Christ. Really, 'IS'?? Now if you said THROUGH Jesus, then that is biblical. Are you a Oneness/modalist believer then?

I have to admit it is pretty creative, but DEAD wrong.

Bless you,

APAK

Umm......

Says the nontrinitarian guy to the guy who thinks he doesn’t sin......

Crazy talk

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

oh, it is by God that ppl get strong delusions too i guess, so this "my understanding = God's understanding" thing doesn't hold too much water imo.

Not sure if I am responding to another one of your dry retort or some snappy zinger from you or what, but in context of the iniquity at work when "he who lets, will let till he be taken out of the way", if you think new age when a believer thinks he can receive the Holy Spirit again, which is that lie that God will permit a believer to have that strong delusion for.... then you can understand the why for God allowing that to happen.

We got whole chapters dedicated to "confounding the wise" i think

That is referring to religion by what a man gains by his merit, his willpower, and his commitments/dedication,promises/oaths/vows. So it confounds the wise to surrender to Him for the power to live the christian life rather than doing the best that they can. Jesus calls the religious to come to Him to learn of Him so they can rest in Him for all things; Matthew 11:25-30

 

[aspen]

‘Snappy zinger’ sounds like a good tea

 

[Helen]

Umm......

Says the nontrinitarian guy to the guy who thinks he doesn’t sin......

Crazy talk

Haha!! That gave me a good chuckle. I'm glad that I didn't have a mouthful of coffee..

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

1 Corinthians 14:15
I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

Are you saying you can only pray in church?

You missed his actual message in verses 12 & 13.

1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Paul is saying that when zealous for spiritual gifts as he began in verse 1, to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts and repeated it again in general that in seeking a gift to excel to the edifying of the church. Thus leading into verse 13 about when a believer has tongues, that they were to pray while speaking in tongues that somebody else will interpret that tongue being manifested in the tongue speaker. Paul goes on to say that he would understand the tongue for why he is praying that someone will interpret the tongue while that tongue is manifested in him by the Holy Spirit.

Do note that it is his spirit praying and not the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is manifesting tongues through Paul to speak unto others in teh assembly.

Now for your next references which is left outside of your quotes so others can read.

1 Corinthians 14:18
I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Are you not seeing Paul's emphasis for someone to interpret that tongue being manifested by the Holy Ghost through him so that he would understand it? Paul just got through emphasizing he would rather speak plainly with his understanding that he may teach others also rather than ten thousand words which he earlier stated he does not understand it unless interpreted?

The next reference...

1 Corinthians 14:
28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

Ask yourself how he is to be silent in church where there is no interpreter? Some tongue speakers seem to make that mean you can speak in tongues but quietly. NOT! Try listening to the sermon or any one else in the assembly where no sound equipment exists with somebody sitting next to you babbling "quietly". People give other people dirty looks for talking while a sermon is being given today. I can't see that happening.

And another point, if he is speaking to God, who is Paul to tell him to be silent? That is like telling the Holy Spirit to be silent. What if in according to your belief, the Holy Spirit is praying? Who is Paul to say that then? Why didn't Paul just say "when there is no interpreter, it is the Holy Spirit praying and so let every body else shut up and if feel so led by the Holy Spirit to pray in tongues, go ahead."?

Because that is not what Paul was saying in verse 28 nor in verse 2.

The church at Corinth is going to have foreign visitors. So when someone speaks in tongues seemingly, and yet there is no interpreter, it is because a foreigner is speaking out of turn. That is what Paul meant when saying he speaks to himself and to God, meaning he understands what he is saying as God does too for why he is to be made silent for that reason as he was speaking out of turn.

When you have two or three speak in tongues and for another to interpret that tongue, some foreigner may stand up and speak in tongue from which there is no interpretation because he is speaking out of turn.

Paul is not saying to not utter it at, just not in church. Why? Because speaking in tongues edifies YOURSELF. .

Verse 28 is unlike verse 2 in that in verse 2 he is not speaking unto himself but unto God meaning God's gift of tongues is when a man does not understand what is being said but God does. That verse 2 is not meaning that the tongue speaker is actually speaking to God for how can there be any mysteries spoken to God? And yet him speaking in mysteries shows he is doing so in the assembly to indicate why tongues is not a stand alone gift that it needs interpretation.

The point of tongue edifies self is to point out with the rest of those verses in that chapter that tongues is not a stand alone gift in relation to edifying the assembly for why prophesy is better than tongues. So the gift to seek after is the gift of prophesy over tongues in the context of verses 1 to 15.

Verse 2 is not a stand alone verse when in context of the rest of those verses, Paul says to tongue speakers to pray that another may interpret because they are not edified until it is interpreted for that tongue to be fruitful for the tongue speakers to understand it after interpretation.

If you skip down to 1 Corinthians 14:34-40, the commandment from the Lord for women not to speak in the assembly is also another line of discernment that tongues without interpretation is not of Him because the Holy Spirit would not manifest tongues in women in the assembly to break the Lord's commandment.

Chapter 14 is about why prophesy is better than tongues because tongues is not a stand alone gift. In no way was Paul talking about how great tongues are by itself as if defeating the whole purpose for exalting the singular gift of prophesy as better than the singular gift of tongues in that chapter.

 

[APAK]

Umm......

Says the nontrinitarian guy to the guy who thinks he doesn’t sin......

Crazy talk

aspen:
I reckon I better stop any rumor you may want to run with as others like you do, and laugh and scoff at believers and spiritual matters of the heart. Taken is a serious believer in Christ and he never said he does not sin, he does not live in sin as a believer and God sees him in Christ today. Do you want to know scripture passages for it?

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Helen]

I actually believe in that thread with BOL she did say that she does not sin. Even maybe cannot sin.
I'm too lazy to check back through all her posts now.

 

[APAK]

Well @"ByGrace" Helen, if Taken/she said that a believer does not sin, it is meant that in the eyes of God, she and I do not sin. We had this discussion previously. I understand Taken 100 %. I agree totally.

BOL really never caught onto this statement or deliberately disregarded it and so did many people. In the eyes of the world and unbelievers we are still sinners. As a believer we do not sin anymore. Can you understand this point. There are many scoffers and I do not trust these witnesses in the least.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Helen]

Well @"ByGrace" Helen, if Taken/she said that a believer does not sin, it is meant that in the eyes of God, she and I do not sin. We had this discussion previously. I understand Taken 100 %. I agree totally.

BOL really never caught onto this statement or deliberately disregarded it and so did many people. In the eyes of the world and unbelievers we are still sinners. As a believer we do not sin anymore. Can you understand this point. There are many scoffers and I do not trust these witnesses in the least.

Bless you,

APAK

It is long ago , but I remember reading James...and checking it out.
We do not live in the habit of sin any more.
The root of sin has been dealt with in Christ.
That said...if we believe that sin is the transgression of the Law...then yes we do still sin...we do not "love perfectly"...we transgress love.

"In Christ" it is not inputed to us..but when we choose the old man over the new man...we sin.
To just say that " I never sin any more" is a delusion..
Grace is indeed grace, but it still has accountability.

That is how I see it.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I don't disagree, we enjoy reading it and it blesses our soul...but so many just get stuck there... they get focussed on the Book, rather than the Spirit of divine truth which flows from it. They do not even see that The Word is Jesus Christ Himself.
Heb 1:1-2 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, ( in The Book)
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds.."

He spoke...but to us He still speaks ( if we listen) daily, deep in our hearts & spirits.

Oh I understand that for sure, but who doesn't ?
But the Books are Holy as the content their of and one has to be care full not to dismiss the Bible for what it truly is.

With the word of the Bible, Jesus condemned the Devil ? remember that and old mate Satan did not have a come back because it is written.

 

[APAK]

@"ByGrace" I guess I still need to expand on the sin in the life of a believer according to the natural man in all of us. Believers are not perfected yet and are sensitive to sin and the spirit within helps to avoid or prevent sin. It never is a way of life anymore. God sees a perfect/perfecting being in Christ and theirs sins are not seen anymore. They do not exist. We are baptized in Christ. This is why believers say they do not sin anymore.

Unbelievers operate without the spirit of Christ. If convicted to something that is considered sin, God moves a believer to acknowledge and repent if necessary usually to those we offend. We do not practice or continue in sin anymore. Our sin is not held against us as the spirit within us is working to perfect us to salvation. Now a sinner or unbeliever will cry wolf every time and say a believer is a hypocrite, has a license to sin, or is a big fat liar and a sinner like them. And we know as a believer this is completely false. Unless the professing believer is really a fake and is absent of the spirit.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

this is how we get to "Easter is Holy" and "Jesus is God" i guess.
You might contemplate that you are literally telling ppl what they have to do up there?
Iow you have just made a Law, do you understand the consequences of making Laws for others?

what is the penalty for disobeying this Law? Even if it is only implied?
bc there is a penalty right; it is implicit, and we all more or less know what it is already

if i found the spot where God is specifically talking about scribes, and how they will translate to suit the buyers would that help any?

No all that you are tempting to do is disregarding the Bible as the written Word of God.
No one is idolising the Books, it's the Word of God that is within that are Holy.

I had one who said to me that she was boasting to another that I have read the Bible twice from cover to cover. No I said, Maybe 40 years ago I did, but that's not the point at all, I read the Bible everyday and I still discover point's that I missed. it's a fantastic book to get to know and the way it's done far exceeds any other book ever written by far, nothing comes close, nothing has the spiritual power like that, I read the book of Mormon and it was total crap as it put me to sleep boring as, but the Bible is never dull as it always blows me away, I pick it up and it's like spiritual Gold.

 

[Helen]

@"ByGrace" I guess I still need to expand on the sin in the life of a believer according to the natural man in all of us. Believers are not perfected yet and are sensitive to sin and the spirit within helps to avoid or prevent sin. It never is a way of life anymore. God sees a perfect/perfecting being in Christ and theirs sins are not seen anymore. They do not exist. We are baptized in Christ. This is why believers say they do not sin anymore.

Unbelievers operate without the spirit of Christ. If convicted to something that is considered sin, God moves a believer to acknowledge and repent if necessary usually to those we offend. We do not practice or continue in sin anymore. Our sin is not held against us as the spirit within us is working to perfect us to salvation. Now a sinner or unbeliever will cry wolf every time and say a believer is a hypocrite, has a license to sin, or is a big fat liar and a sinner like them. And we know as a believer this is completely false. Unless the professing believer is really a fake and is absent of the spirit.

Bless you,

APAK

I do know what you are saying.
@ScottA once tried hard to explain it to me.
I can say " Thank you for explaining it" And I 'think' I have understood it.
In Christ we are hidden.
But in the cold light of day it slips away from me again!!
So if you know what I mean here = I have it and know it "in the Spirit" but I do not "have it" enough to voice it to anyone else.
And I wouldn't dare to try. I knew what the others were feeling when Taken was saying " I don't sin". That leaves people scratching their heads ...and even I said to her something like. "Well your attitude here in this thread sure looks and sounds like you DO!! "

It is not the greatest of testimonies to be saying to people 'I don't sin'..because that infers that one has reached perfection. No wonder the non-saved look at us and think that we are all crazy and want all Christian locked up in the nut house!!
We will all be locked up soon enough somewhere...if 'they' get their way.