Confession

[bbyrd009]

Do you ever confess your sins to Jesus Christ at that throne of grace? Seems like you are missing out on the blessing in having that reconciled relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ.

can you Quote this concept? ty
ps, i'd go verify in the Lex before you post, ok

 

[GodsGrace]

We would not have two different Greek words if they meant exactly the same thing. I believe the difference would pertain to the seriousness of the matter. When you turn to the commandments in the Torah, some violations are punishable by death, while others require only monetary or material restitution. I also believe the KJB translators correctly used the word "faults" (lapses, blunders, unintentional offences, etc.).

The real issue is that only God (and Christ) can absolve, forgive, or remit sins. No man can pronounce absolution, and herein lies the error. What is said about the apostles needs to be properly interpreted.

Your first paragraph reminds me of mortal and venial sins...the CC has sin separated into serious and not serious.

It also brings to mind willful sinning and non-willful sinning...what you're calling lapses, blunders, unintentional offenses, etc. The problem is that to God EVERYTHING is sin, even our lapses and blunders. The Jews had sacrifices for unknown sins,,,just like I ask forgiveness for ALL my sins, even the ones I'm not even aware of. Yes. I think God is truly Holy and to Him we sin every moment...that's how Holy HE is.

As to your second paragraph...what is the proper interpretation of what was said to the Apostles?
John 20:23
It still sounds to me like Jesus was giving them authroity to forgive sin, even after 30 years or more of having become Protestant.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you believe Jesus was God? Then when He said as He was ascending into Heaven..."I will draw all men unto me..."

I don't believe @Philip James is a calvinist...he just says some things like they do because he's not familiar with their doctrine.

 

[GodsGrace]

Now there is the wisdom!! I agree.
Whether we confess our faults, failings, attitudes or sins to a third party other than God...has nothing to do with anyone else.
It does not hurts the person themselves, or any one else!

We are always so quick to put our religious noses into someone else's pocket....
Maybe for some people the priest is the only other person other then God, that the person has spoken to all day!!

My feelings exactly.
Confession has nothing to do with salvation.
I'd go so far as to say that some that go to confession are doing a WORK and are perhaps not even saved. I know persons like this.
But the majority go because they care to serve God the best they know how and this is their way. Why take it away from them? Also, some go to ask advice or to just talk.

Personally, I find no problem with this.

 

[GodsGrace]

This whole Catholic business was a ploy to control the gullible people under the thumbs of the priests for centuries. According to Scripture, the Roman Catholic priesthood is a sham and a scam. The Royal Priesthood of believers is the truth.

Confession of our sins must be to God alone. Confession of our faults may be to our brethren. But because James 5:16 refuted the Catholic concept, and mentioned "faults" -- not sins -- it was deliberately changed to "sins" in the Catholic bibles as well as the modern Bible versions (which follow the Catholic bibles). Please note:

TRADITIONAL TEXTS
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Ἐξομολογεῖσθε ἀλλήλοις τὰ παραπτώματα, καὶ εὔχεσθε ὑπὲρ ἀλλήλων, ὅπως ἰαθῆτε. Πολὺ ἰσχύει δέησις δικαίου ἐνεργουμένη.
Greek Orthodox Church 1904
ἐξομολογεῖσθε ἀλλήλοις τὰ παραπτώματα, καὶ εὔχεσθε ὑπὲρ ἀλλήλων, ὅπως ἰαθῆτε· πολὺ ἰσχύει δέησις δικαίου ἐνεργουμένη.
Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
ἐξομολογεῖσθε ἀλλήλοις τὰ παραπτώματα, καὶ εὔχεσθε ὑπὲρ ἀλλήλων, ὅπως ἰαθῆτε. πολὺ ἰσχύει δέησις δικαίου ἐνεργουμένη.
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ἐξομολογεῖσθε ἀλλήλοις τὰ παραπτώματα, καὶ εὔχεσθε ὑπὲρ ἀλλήλων ὅπως ἰαθῆτε πολὺ ἰσχύει δέησις δικαίου ἐνεργουμένη

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (KJB)

Strong's Concordance
paraptóma: a false step, a trespass
Original Word: παράπτωμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: paraptóma
Phonetic Spelling: (par-ap'-to-mah)
Short Definition: a falling away, sin
Definition: a falling away, lapse, slip, false step, trespass, sin.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3900: παράπτωμα
παράπτωμα, παραπτώματος, τό(παραπίπτω, which see);
1. properly, a fall beside or near something; but nowhere found in this sense.

2. tropically, a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness; a sin, misdeed (R. V. trespass,'differing from ἁμάρτημα (which see) in figure not in force' (Fritzsche); cf. Trench, § lxvi.): Matthew 6:14,(a GT omit; WH brackets), b; Rec.; Mark 11:25, 26 R G L;Romans 4:25; Romans 5:15-18, 20; Romans 11:11; 2 Corinthians 5:19; Galatians 6:1; Ephesians 1:7;Ephesians 2:1, 5; Colossians 2:13; James 5:16 (whereL T Tr WH ἁμαρτίας). (Polybius 9, 10, 6; Wis. 3:13 Wis. 10:1; the Sept. several times for מַעַל, עָוֶל, פֶּשַׁע , etc.; of literary faults, Longinus, 36, 2.)

As noted by Thayer's paraptoma is not the same as hamartia. That is why the KJV has "faults".

CRITICAL TEXT
ἐξομολογεῖσθε οὖν ἀλλήλοις τὰς ἁμαρτίας καὶ προσεύχεσθε / εὔχεσθε ὑπὲρ ἀλλήλων, ὅπως ἰαθῆτε. πολὺ ἰσχύει δέησις δικαίου ἐνεργουμένη.
New American Standard Bible
Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

Strong's Concordance
hamartia: a sin, failure
Original Word: ἁμαρτία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hamartia
Phonetic Spelling: (ham-ar-tee'-ah)
Short Definition: a sin
Definition: prop: missing the mark; hence: (a) guilt, sin, (b) a fault, failure (in an ethical sense), sinful deed.

P.S.

I did look up John 20:23 and it had this for SINS:

the sins. ..ἁμαρτίας... amartias ...266... a sin,... failure... from hamartanó

It would seem, to me, to be a sin --- NOT a fault .

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It's the same. You could go just for advice.
You always get a nice blessing too.

I do sound Catholic, don't I??!!

You do sound good.
You should start a "Dear Mrs. Catholic" thread on this forum and take questions from people.
Maybe even take confessions.

 

[GodsGrace]

You do sound good.
You should start a "Dear Mrs. Catholic" thread on this forum and take questions from people.
Maybe even take confessions.

Is it you again?
Another rough day with Tamasi.
Go away!!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I do believe, after all your brother saw on the battlefield, that he most probably forgave not only you, but everyone who ever hurt him. The ugliness makes one realize how precious everything and everyone is. It makes all the small stuff become so insignificant.

As to John...I meant
John 20:22-23

He's saying that some sins could be retained. What does this mean? Could it mean that we don't have to forgive sins that are not accompanied by sorrow?
Could it be that the Catholics are right and we should be confessing to those that came after the Apostles and were breathed upon by the Holy Spirit?

Then we go to 1 John 1:9 and John says if we confess our sins, God is faithful and righteous to forgive our sins.

So what does confess mean?
Does it mean just to speak?
Does it mean to speak to a pastor that has been blessed as the Apostles were?

I do believe that it's God forgiving the sin...even a Catholic will tell you this and this is what they believe...but so then why would it be necessary to confess to a priest? I know all the doctrinal reasons why..but, as you can see, I'm not sure about any of this.

Sorry to disagree.
What people see on a battlefield certainly does change people.
But they do not all change in the same way.

 

[GodsGrace]

You do sound good.
You should start a "Dear Mrs. Catholic" thread on this forum and take questions from people.
Maybe even take confessions.

BTW, did you shave or something?
You look much better today.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Is it you again?
Another rough day with Tamasi.
Go away!!

Come on, go ahead, tell everyone, you love me!!!!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

BTW, did you shave or something?
You look much better today.

That's my cousin Franky.

 

[GodsGrace]

Come on, go ahead, tell everyone, you love me!!!!

Actually, I do!
I love all my Christian brothers.
Even the ones who taunt me.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's my cousin Franky.

Keep Franky as an avatar.
Just some friendly advice.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Oh no? Tell that to ananaias and sapphira ...

More to my point then yours. His disciples testified that the Lord had taken their lives. The disciples did not ended their lives. Vengeance belongs to the Lord.

 

[Nancy]

Hi JIF
I'm not at a computer, but I'll try.

1 John 1:9 doesn't really tell us how to confess, does it?
Maybe because John was writing to people that were taught how so he didn't think it was important to repeat it? Just from reading that verse it does seem to mean that we should confess to God.

We have Protestants that go to their pastor with a problem regarding conscience. Wouldn't it be nice if they could be sure their sin was forgiven? Why do WE battle with this at times? Persons here on these threads have this fear that they have not been forgiven. We can't deny this.

Confession is not a bad thing. It has nothing to do with salvation and could actually cause good.

I don't refer to 1 John. I refer to John 20:23 -- that is the problem verse for me.

---

This has always been a bit murky to me too GG.
When Jesus ascended to Heaven, He promised that the Holy Spirit, would remain with/inside the disciples and anyone who receives the Lord, will receive the Holy Spirit to help us and strengthen, guide us and teach us.... So, I do believe they had discernment weather someone was truly repentant...so, if discerning one is sincere, they can be assured by the Apostles that indeed there sins are forgiven. If they discern someone is NOT sincere, or does not repent/believe... then, they cannot tell these ones that their sins are forgiven. No man can give absolution, ONLY Jesus can do that...now THAT is crystal clear to me...IMO.

 

[Nancy]

Is it you again?
Another rough day with Tamasi.
Go away!!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Hi JIF
I'm not at a computer, but I'll try.

1 John 1:9 doesn't really tell us how to confess, does it?
Maybe because John was writing to people that were taught how so he didn't think it was important to repeat it? Just from reading that verse it does seem to mean that we should confess to God.

Well, to the One that forgives and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, it reads as confessing to Him for why He is responding.

We have Protestants that go to their pastor with a problem regarding conscience. Wouldn't it be nice if they could be sure their sin was forgiven? Why do WE battle with this at times? Persons here on these threads have this fear that they have not been forgiven. We can't deny this.

More often times than not, believers that ask for forgiveness from Him, forget to ask Him for help not to do it again. They forget that He is their personal Good Shepherd and that He is in them and thus with them always to rely on all the time to help them lay aside every weight & sin in following Him and walking in the light with Him. A priest cannot do that.

Confession is not a bad thing. It has nothing to do with salvation and could actually cause good.

Not if the practice enforces that unbelief in His words that He has forgiven them for why they go to a priest.

I don't refer to 1 John. I refer to John 20:23 -- that is the problem verse for me.

Let's go to Paul in 2 Corinthians 2:1-11. Paul has found out that the unrepentant brother mentioned about in 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 for having sexual relations with his father's wife that was excommunicated by that church at Corinth has repented and the church has forgiven him and let him back into fellowship. Paul was giving assurances to that church that he commanded to excommunicate the unrepentant brother that as they have forgiven the repentant brother, so has he also.

2 Corinthians 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; 11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

This had to deal with forgiving and accepting a repentant brother back into fellowship in the church. Since the whole church had to forgive him to let him back in, so Paul had to assure the church that he also forgave him since he had ordered them to excommunicate the formerly unrepentant brother, and he did so in the pattern set forth by Christ or in the manner or in the person of Christ as the example. The point of 2 Corinthians 2:11 should be clear as warned below in another reference.

Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

That still does not negate going to Jesus for the forgiveness of sins and for help in repentance, but the forgiveness from the body of believers should be towards those that had asked for forgiveness and had repented for coming back in after having been excommunicated from the assembly.


Paul may not be clear in 2 Corinthians 2:1-11 in regards to that incident in 1 Corinthians 5th chapter, but I believe that was what he was referring to as I am sure the church had written him in regards to that brother finally repented for why he is giving assurance that he has forgiven him also so that the next time he visits that church, Paul knows why he is still there for he has repented and forgiven by the church to return to fellowship.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

can you Quote this concept? ty
ps, i'd go verify in the Lex before you post, ok

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Asking for forgiveness would be a way to obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need in order to repent from that sin and keep us from them, especially of their power to dominate our lives in ruining us.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Jesus is the only high priest any believer needs when seeking forgiveness from God for sins against God.

 

[GodsGrace]

---

This has always been a bit murky to me too GG.
When Jesus ascended to Heaven, He promised that the Holy Spirit, would remain with/inside the disciples and anyone who receives the Lord, will receive the Holy Spirit to help us and strengthen, guide us and teach us.... So, I do believe they had discernment weather someone was truly repentant...so, if discerning one is sincere, they can be assured by the Apostles that indeed there sins are forgiven. If they discern someone is NOT sincere, or does not repent/believe... then, they cannot tell these ones that their sins are forgiven. No man can give absolution, ONLY Jesus can do that...now THAT is crystal clear to me...IMO.

I can't remember if I said that some believe that Jesus meant that it would be up to the Apostles to let new believers into the Christian community.

If the Apostles thought the newcomer was sorry for his sins and ready to become Christian, then he was "forgiven" his sins. If not, then he was not forgiven and not let into the community.

Anyway, yes, I agree that only God can forgive sins. And in fact, the CC does not teach that the priest forgives the sin, but only pronounces that God has.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, to the One that forgives and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, it reads as confessing to Him for why He is responding.

More often times than not, believers that ask for forgiveness from Him, forget to ask Him for help not to do it again. They forget that He is their personal Good Shepherd and that He is in them and thus with them always to rely on all the time to help them lay aside every weight & sin in following Him and walking in the light with Him. A priest cannot do that.

I don't understand how you could possibly know what persons ask God...I think if we're truly sorry, we DO tend to ask for help in not repeating the sin; it seems only natural. I think born again Christians know that Jesus is their personal savior and shepherd.
I think we all know that the Holy Spirit dwells within us and helps us to avoid as much sin as possible -- we will never be sinless but we proceed toward our regeneration or sanctification.

Have you ever been to confession? I used to be Catholic many many years ago and have worked in the CC since I've been here. You'd be surprised how much a catholic priest could help a person. Like everything else, there are pros and cons to depending on a person...some do, however, find advice which is God-based in them and weight can be lifted from the shoulders of someone who needs this in a concrete way. Personally, I don't rely on anyone but our Lord...but we're not all the same.

Not if the practice enforces that unbelief in His words that He has forgiven them for why they go to a priest.

I understand your point. But if this is what they're used to...why is it wrong? It's still God forgiving them. There are bigger issues at stake. Does purgatory exist? Is Jesus' sacrifice sufficient? Does baptism save a baby? Are we imputed with original sin or only the effects of it? Is it possible to lose salvation? Etc.

Let's go to Paul in 2 Corinthians 2:1-11. Paul has found out that the unrepentant brother mentioned about in 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 for having sexual relations with his father's wife that was excommunicated by that church at Corinth has repented and the church has forgiven him and let him back into fellowship. Paul was giving assurances to that church that he commanded to excommunicate the unrepentant brother that as they have forgiven the repentant brother, so has he also.

2 Corinthians 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; 11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

This had to deal with forgiving and accepting a repentant brother back into fellowship in the church. Since the whole church had to forgive him to let him back in, so Paul had to assure the church that he also forgave him since he had ordered them to excommunicate the formerly unrepentant brother, and he did so in the pattern set forth by Christ or in the manner or in the person of Christ as the example. The point of 2 Corinthians 2:11 should be clear as warned below in another reference.

Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

That still does not negate going to Jesus for the forgiveness of sins and for help in repentance, but the forgiveness from the body of believers should be towards those that had asked for forgiveness and had repented for coming back in after having been excommunicated from the assembly.


Paul may not be clear in 2 Corinthians 2:1-11 in regards to that incident in 1 Corinthians 5th chapter, but I believe that was what he was referring to as I am sure the church had written him in regards to that brother finally repented for why he is giving assurance that he has forgiven him also so that the next time he visits that church, Paul knows why he is still there for he has repented and forgiven by the church to return to fellowship.

I'd like to spend some time on the above.
After dinner...